Hot starting issues

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A couple of other common conventions to keep in mind.
"Battery" Battery indicates a connection to the power supply. It could be argued that it would be more accurate to label them power supply since power normally comes from the alternator when the engine is running. But labelling them B, Batt, or Battery is a good reminder that these connections are hot unless the battery is disconnected. Anyway, it is a common convention just like these are called "12 Volt" systems even through they generally run at 14ish Volts.
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Black insulation was used for positive wires and just because its black does not mean its a ground.

"Charging" People often say the alternator is charging. It's generally understood that what they mean is the alternator is producing power. But when troubleshooting it is important to be clear whether you mean the battery is charging or not (as shown on the ammeter) or the whether the alternator doesn't seem to be working.
 
So test the brown wire with the circuit tester while it was not starting and it the light still lit up. So I’m assuming this means it’s a distributor issue with out a doubt. Will r&r the distributor and post the up date.
 
So was able to swap out the distributor today and now it will restart at will so that problem is fixed. However now I’m having idling issues. It was backfiring out the tail pipes/popping but i seemmed to have figured that out. Now its making a weird thump. I tried increasing timing and it went away, but then when I got to adjust the idle speed screw To lower the rpm it comes back. My idle mixture screws seem to be happy as they are in the 12-14 range on the vacuum gauge. What am I missing here?
 
If this sound occurs while running;
you got wires crossed? 18436572. #1 is driver's side front, and the cylinders are numbered from front to back.
or bad timing, as in pick-up polarity reversed? Check your strobe-action; it should move smoothly with rpm, with no jumping around, no missed strobes and no extra strobes. If this happens, just reverse the polarity and reset your base-timing.
or is your idle-timing excessively high?
You got an MSD? then you need a compatible lite.

If that sound only happens when you shut her down, and the engine fails to shut right off, then it is dieseling. The throttles are too far open.

I never adjust my idle for highest vacuum. I set the rpm to what the engine wants based on;
1) the lack of tip-in sag, and
2) not banging into gear, and
3) a modest rpm drop when going from N/P to D.
Then the mixture screws should be in the center of their range;
~.5 to .75 turn for Holley-types and
1.5 to 2.5 on Carter Types.
If they are not, I can usually trace that to the transfer slots not being set right. I leave the vacuum gauge for other stuff.
 
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If this sound occurs while running;
you got wires crossed? 18436572. #1 is driver's side front, and the cylinders are numbered from front to back.
or bad timing, as in pick-up polarity reversed? Check your strobe-action; it should move smoothly with rpm, with no jumping around, no missed strobes and no extra strobes. If this happens, just reverse the polarity and reset your base-timing.
or is your idle-timing excessively high?
You got an MSD? then you need a compatible lite.

If that sound only happens when you shut her down, and the engine fails to shut right off, then it is dieseling. The throttles are too far open.

I never adjust my idle for highest vacuum. I set the rpm to what the engine wants based on;
1) the lack of tip-in sag, and
2) not banging into gear, and
3) a modest rpm drop when going from N/P to D.
Then the mixture screws should be in the center of their range;
~.5 to .75 turn for Holley-types and
1.5 to 2.5 on Carter Types.
If they are not, I can usually trace that to the transfer slots not being set right. I leave the vacuum gauge for other stuff.
It’s no dieseling. It turns right off. Also not runnin MSD but a stock moor electronic ignition. Holley street avenger 570 and my idle screws are right around your suggestions. I will try your advice when I get home from work today! I really do appreciate all the help.
 
If this sound occurs while running;
you got wires crossed? 18436572. #1 is driver's side front, and the cylinders are numbered from front to back.
or bad timing, as in pick-up polarity reversed? Check your strobe-action; it should move smoothly with rpm, with no jumping around, no missed strobes and no extra strobes. If this happens, just reverse the polarity and reset your base-timing.
or is your idle-timing excessively high?
You got an MSD? then you need a compatible lite.

If that sound only happens when you shut her down, and the engine fails to shut right off, then it is dieseling. The throttles are too far open.

I never adjust my idle for highest vacuum. I set the rpm to what the engine wants based on;
1) the lack of tip-in sag, and
2) not banging into gear, and
3) a modest rpm drop when going from N/P to D.
Then the mixture screws should be in the center of their range;
~.5 to .75 turn for Holley-types and
1.5 to 2.5 on Carter Types.
If they are not, I can usually trace that to the transfer slots not being set right. I leave the vacuum gauge for other stuff.
What do you mean by reverse polarity?
 
I’ve got it idling out of gear at about 1100 in gear 0800 and 14 degrees of timing. The noise comes back a little bit in gear but I also noticed my rear fuel bowl was low and wasn’t responsive to adjustments so possibly may be stuck. So I’m gonna take the carb off tomorrow and start there.
 
Reverse polarity means the wires at the pick-up are connected to the wrong pins inside the connector.
But STOP!
the proof of reversed pick-up polarity, is the severely wandering spark strobes, and the engine does not take throttle well at all . . . . . because the spark really is jumping around. So don't go swapping the wires until you have proved the rebellious strobing.
But if you do have to reverse the polarity due to crazy strobing, then you will have to reset your base-timing. And,
if you re-phased your rotor to get the spark to jump to the right towers, then you will also have to change that back.
But hang on a sec;
Did you not say you had a mild 360; why is it idling at 1100@14 degrees? She is either way up the transfers, or she is sucking a lotta bypass air, and for a mild cam that is all wrong; and a 300 rpm drop going into gear is crazy! No wonder it won't hot-start.
What cam is in your engine?
My old 292/508 /108 idled just fine at 700/750 and pulled down to 550 in 2.66 first gear, with 3.55s. (4-speed)
 
BE743F23-99DF-468B-A7AD-FC78B03E89F3.jpeg
Reverse polarity means the wires at the pick-up are connected to the wrong pins inside the connector.
But STOP!
the proof of reversed pick-up polarity, is the severely wandering spark strobes, and the engine does not take throttle well at all . . . . . because the spark really is jumping around. So don't go swapping the wires until you have proved the rebellious strobing.
But if you do have to reverse the polarity due to crazy strobing, then you will have to reset your base-timing. And,
if you re-phased your rotor to get the spark to jump to the right towers, then you will also have to change that back.
But hang on a sec;
Did you not say you had a mild 360; why is it idling at 1100@14 degrees? She is either way up the transfers, or she is sucking a lotta bypass air, and for a mild cam that is all wrong; and a 300 rpm drop going into gear is crazy! No wonder it won't hot-start.
What cam is in your engine?
My old 292/508 /108 idled just fine at 700/750 and pulled down to 550 in 2.66 first gear, with 3.55s. (4-speed)
Ok I’m having none of this issues with the timing light. Swapping out distributors fixed my hot starting issue, now I just can’t seems to get it to idle correctly. I’ve attached a picture of my cam. I was told from a buddy that rebuild engines that it’s nothing exciting just slightly better than what was stock.
 
That is a great street cam/ hugely better than the stocker choices. Makes a ton of low-rpm torque, and and a modest amount of midrange. With decent cylinder pressure she needs no stall change and almost any 3.00 series gears.
And it will idle down to 550 in gear pulling itself on hard level flat ground. Maybe even 500.
Ok
my first thought is that the engine is getting air somewhere, not authorized by the throttle valves.
Here are your usual suspects, in most likely order;
accidentally cracked or stuck-open secondaries; see note-1
an un-capped vacuum port on the carb.
intake to head connection including in the valley under the intake
the carb base gasket(s)
a faulty PCV
any vacuum device running off the intake
a perforated diaphragm or broken control valve in the Brake booster
faulty guides
faulty exhaust valves
a hole in the plenum
see also note-2
--------------------
Note-1
here is your basic tune;

>Step one, disable your Ignition system by disconnecting the ballast resistor.
>Take the carb off the engine ,empty it, flip it upside down keeping the throttle closed. For this test, keep the throttle against the curb-idle speed screw, to prevent choke engagement.
> Identify your Transfer slots. They are the only slots at the front edge of the primary throttle blades. Reset your speed screw to make the slots appear to be about dead square, both the same.
> go to the secondary side and make sure that both butterflies are fully closed but not sticking. You may have to bend the link-rod to get this, and/or adjust the cracking-screw, and/or, if a Holley VS you may have to fuss with the secondary vacuum pod. Actually if you have one of these, take the pod off and make sure the diaphragm is properly installed and sealed. When you re-install it, make sure the sealing washer is present.
>Set the fuel level.
>Finally, reset the mixture screws to in the center of their working range; 3/4 turn on Holley-types, 2turns on Carter-types
> Next, verify your TDC mark on the balancer is correct using a piston stop. This is very important on a used and factory balancer.
> reinstall the carb, prime it, start the engine; and on a Holley-type with fuel-level windows, check the wet and running fuel level. If you have a fuel-pressure gauge, you are looking for 3.5 to 4.5 psi.
>>Now; after this, do NOT touch the Idle speed screw!
>You will set the idle-speed to 500/550 in gear by adjusting the Ignition Timing to in the range of 8 to 14 degrees advance. And when you pop it into Neutral, you are looking for no more than a 100 rpm rise. If it rises more than this, take timing out.
Note-2
explanations on the tune

Ok to explain;
1) Your idle-timing changes your idle Power. As does your idle-speed, but more so the timing. The fact is that at idle, your engine actually wants more than 20/25 degrees. You cannot give her that for two reasons; 1) the rpm will climb out of sight, and 2) if you turn the speed screw down, you will shut off the transfers. So don't go there.
2) Your idle-timing can be very little, and the engine will idle just fine, altho with very little power to spare.
3) your job is to find the amount of Idle-power that does not cause a huge transmission bang when shifting from N/P to in gear. Yet a transfer-slot exposure on the lean side that does NOT cause a tip-in sag.
4) the mixture screws are just idle quality trimmers. The transfer slots are your low-speed/low-rpm primary fuel supply. The trimmers never shut off, so the richer they are, the richer the entire circuit is. You want the combination of the transfers plus the trimmers to be parked in a place that prevents a tip-in sag/hesitation. You cannot.should not expect the pumpshot to fix the tip-in sag, that is NOT what it is there for. Tip-in means slowly tipping-in the primaries as to take off naturally and normally. A hesitation here is extremely annoying. Your job is to find a combination of Idle-Timing and Curb-Idle adjustment, and Trimmer-adjustment that is just enough, and no more. I gave you the baseline tune to get you started.
If you change the wet fuel level, then you will have to re-tune.
If you change the fuel-pressure or fuel-type, you will have to change the tune.
If you change the running coolant temp, you will have to change the tune.
If you change the stall or rear gears, you may be able to you-guessed-it, re-tune.
If you pile the car full of 200pounders, you may have to re-tune lol, cause you may get a tip-in sag, lol.
If you just cannot get rid of the tip-in sag with the transfers set to square,and with the trimmers at or near baseline, THEN add transfer fuel by adjusting the curb-idle screw. If the Idle-speed gets to be too high, retard the timing. Then re-work the trimmers.
As for the pumpshot; No matter where you reset the curb-idle screw to, every time you change it, you have to check that the pump begins squirting at or near, the instant that the primary throttles move. There are adjustments for this. The pumpshot takes over when the speed/rate of throttle-opening is more than the transfers can handle. Insufficient pumpshot results in a bog, where the nose falls for an instant, when you floor it.
Ok that about wraps it up.
Hang on;
>If after going thru this routine, the idle-speed refuses to come down properly, then the engine is getting air somewhere not authorized by the throttle openings, go find it.
same as before;
Here are your usual suspects, in most likely order;
accidentally cracked or stuck-open secondaries
an un-capped vacuum port on the carb.
intake to head connection including in the valley under the intake
the carb base gasket(s)
a faulty PCV
any vacuum device running off the intake
a perforated diaphragm or broken control valve in the Brake booster
faulty guides
faulty exhaust valves
a hole in the plenum

Happy HotRodding
 
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That is a great street cam/ hugely better than the stocker choices. Makes a ton of low-rpm torque, and and a modest amount of midrange. With decent cylinder pressure she needs no stall change and almost any 3.00 series gears.
And it will idle down to 550 in gear pulling itself on hard level flat ground. Maybe even 500.
Ok
my first thought is that the engine is getting air somewhere, not authorized by the throttle valves.
Here are your usual suspects, in most likely order;
accidentally cracked or stuck-open secondaries; see note-1
an un-capped vacuum port on the carb.
intake to head connection including in the valley under the intake
the carb base gasket(s)
a faulty PCV
any vacuum device running off the intake
a perforated diaphragm or broken control valve in the Brake booster
faulty guides
faulty exhaust valves
a hole in the plenum
see also note-2
--------------------
Note-1
here is your basic tune;

>Step one, disable your Ignition system by disconnecting the ballast resistor.
>Take the carb off the engine ,empty it, flip it upside down keeping the throttle closed. For this test, keep the throttle against the curb-idle speed screw, to prevent choke engagement.
> Identify your Transfer slots. They are the only slots at the front edge of the primary throttle blades. Reset your speed screw to make the slots appear to be about dead square, both the same.
> go to the secondary side and make sure that both butterflies are fully closed but not sticking. You may have to bend the link-rod to get this, and/or adjust the cracking-screw, and/or, if a Holley VS you may have to fuss with the secondary vacuum pod. Actually if you have one of these, take the pod off and make sure the diaphragm is properly installed and sealed. When you re-install it, make sure the sealing washer is present.
>Set the fuel level.
>Finally, reset the mixture screws to in the center of their working range; 3/4 turn on Holley-types, 2turns on Carter-types
> Next, verify your TDC mark on the balancer is correct using a piston stop. This is very important on a used and factory balancer.
> reinstall the carb, prime it, start the engine; and on a Holley-type with fuel-level windows, check the wet and running fuel level. If you have a fuel-pressure gauge, you are looking for 3.5 to 4.5 psi.
>>Now; after this, do NOT touch the Idle speed screw!
>You will set the idle-speed to 500/550 in gear by adjusting the Ignition Timing to in the range of 8 to 14 degrees advance. And when you pop it into Neutral, you are looking for no more than a 100 rpm rise. If it rises more than this, take timing out.
Note-2
explanations on the tune

Ok to explain;
1) Your idle-timing changes your idle Power. As does your idle-speed, but more so the timing. The fact is that at idle, your engine actually wants more than 20/25 degrees. You cannot give her that for two reasons; 1) the rpm will climb out of sight, and 2) if you turn the speed screw down, you will shut off the transfers. So don't go there.
2) Your idle-timing can be very little, and the engine will idle just fine, altho with very little power to spare.
3) your job is to find the amount of Idle-power that does not cause a huge transmission bang when shifting from N/P to in gear. Yet a transfer-slot exposure on the lean side that does NOT cause a tip-in sag.
4) the mixture screws are just idle quality trimmers. The transfer slots are your low-speed/low-rpm primary fuel supply. The trimmers never shut off, so the richer they are, the richer the entire circuit is. You want the combination of the transfers plus the trimmers to be parked in a place that prevents a tip-in sag/hesitation. You cannot.should not expect the pumpshot to fix the tip-in sag, that is NOT what it is there for. Tip-in means slowly tipping-in the primaries as to take off naturally and normally. A hesitation here is extremely annoying. Your job is to find a combination of Idle-Timing and Curb-Idle adjustment, and Trimmer-adjustment that is just enough, and no more. I gave you the baseline tune to get you started.
If you change the wet fuel level, then you will have to re-tune.
If you change the fuel-pressure or fuel-type, you will have to change the tune.
If you change the running coolant temp, you will have to change the tune.
If you change the stall or rear gears, you may be able to you-guessed-it, re-tune.
If you pile the car full of 200pounders, you may have to re-tune lol, cause you may get a tip-in sag, lol.
If you just cannot get rid of the tip-in sag with the transfers set to square,and with the trimmers at or near baseline, THEN add transfer fuel by adjusting the curb-idle screw. If the Idle-speed gets to be too high, retard the timing. Then re-work the trimmers.
As for the pumpshot; No matter where you reset the curb-idle screw to, every time you change it, you have to check that the pump begins squirting at or near, the instant that the primary throttles move. There are adjustments for this. The pumpshot takes over when the speed/rate of throttle-opening is more than the transfers can handle. Insufficient pumpshot results in a bog, where the nose falls for an instant, when you floor it.
Ok that about wraps it up.
Hang on;
>If after going thru this routine, the idle-speed refuses to come down properly, then the engine is getting air somewhere not authorized by the throttle openings, go find it.
same as before;
Here are your usual suspects, in most likely order;
accidentally cracked or stuck-open secondaries
an un-capped vacuum port on the carb.
intake to head connection including in the valley under the intake
the carb base gasket(s)
a faulty PCV
any vacuum device running off the intake
a perforated diaphragm or broken control valve in the Brake booster
faulty guides
faulty exhaust valves
a hole in the plenum

Happy HotRodding
Man that is an awesome breakdown thank you so much! Will for sure follow it step by step! As far as extra air getting into the engine, I did spray some carb cleaner around the base of the carb and where the intake meets the heads and no change in anything so I don’t believe my extra air is from there. The engine/heads where just rebuilt 700 miles ago. I think it’s the transfer slots you are talking bout. No brake booster, no uncapped vacuum port other than what the vacuum gauge is hooked up to. Do have vacuum line running to the vacuum canister that also runs to the climate controls inside the car. Any recommendations for fuel pressure gauge? I had just an random auto store one on the fuel line I have going to the carb and it never gave me a clear reading.
 
so I don’t believe my extra air is from there.
Don't forget there is a bottom-side to the intake.
A valley leak is easy to find. Just put a vacuum/fuel-pressure gauge on the dipstick-tube, seal the Valve covers; then start her up. In this condition there should NEVER be a vacuum in the CC. And the blowby gasses should immediately begin building pressure.
DO NOT LET THE PRESSURE EXCEED ~3 to 4 PSI MAX. That pressure is well able to blow your seals out. Don't panic, you should normally have a minute or two.
No recommendations on the fuel-pressure gauge, on account of you should NOT bring a mechanical gauge into the cabin. Anything you install must be 100% sealed and 100% guaranteed to not ever break or leak. Electric gauges are OK but IDK how dependable the senders are.
Some guys just install a test-port near the carb,like the early EFI cars sometimes had and then just check it now and then. Really, that's all you need.
 
EC7BD77B-4E62-4431-96E9-920A6F8E5CF1.jpeg
Don't forget there is a bottom-side to the intake.
A valley leak is easy to find. Just put a vacuum/fuel-pressure gauge on the dipstick-tube, seal the Valve covers; then start her up. In this condition there should NEVER be a vacuum in the CC. And the blowby gasses should immediately begin building pressure.
DO NOT LET THE PRESSURE EXCEED ~3 to 4 PSI MAX. That pressure is well able to blow your seals out. Don't panic, you should normally have a minute or two.
No recommendations on the fuel-pressure gauge, on account of you should NOT bring a mechanical gauge into the cabin. Anything you install must be 100% sealed and 100% guaranteed to not ever break or leak. Electric gauges are OK but IDK how dependable the senders are.
Some guys just install a test-port near the carb,like the early EFI cars sometimes had and then just check it now and then. Really, that's all you need.
As far as the fuel pressure gauge that’s what I was meaning.
So didn’t have much time to try and really wrench due to work crazy mess, but I was able to get the carb off at least and as soon as I drained it I flipped it over and you were 100% right on the transfer slots.
Hopefully tomorrow I get more time to check things and go down the list you gave me. Again thank you so much for all the help.
 
Is that the PCV port that is capped? Why?
You must run the PCV to the primary side of the carb with a thick-walled,designed-for-vacuum, hose.
The way the set-up looks now, your engine will flood during cranking. Which may be great for a cold start, but terrible for hot-starting.
By running the PCV to the primary side, you can see how the vapors would get a chance to mingle with the fuel being discharged from the transfers and idle-ports. This helps smooth the idle.
If you were to run the PCV to the Secondary side, and I'm not saying that you did, then that air could still be mostly dry when it gets to the cylinders, and then the back four cylinders would run leaner at idle (I suspect all the time), and the engine would idle rougher.
If the PCV hose is NOT a thick-walled designed for vacuum, hose, it is very likely to collapse or partially collapse, messing with your AFR, under high manifold vacuum.

But you are making progress, yahoo.
 
Is that the PCV port that is capped? Why?
You must run the PCV to the primary side of the carb with a thick-walled,designed-for-vacuum, hose.
The way the set-up looks now, your engine will flood during cranking. Which may be great for a cold start, but terrible for hot-starting.
By running the PCV to the primary side, you can see how the vapors would get a chance to mingle with the fuel being discharged from the transfers and idle-ports. This helps smooth the idle.
If you were to run the PCV to the Secondary side, and I'm not saying that you did, then that air could still be mostly dry when it gets to the cylinders, and then the back four cylinders would run leaner at idle (I suspect all the time), and the engine would idle rougher.
If the PCV hose is NOT a thick-walled designed for vacuum, hose, it is very likely to collapse or partially collapse, messing with your AFR, under high manifold vacuum.

But you are making progress, yahoo.
No that open port in the picture was normally capped. It was just open from disconnecting the vacuum gauge. I had the pcv valve running to the big port on the back of the carb normally used for the brake booster but since I didn’t have one I though the pcv just needed a vacuum port so I put it there. Is primary and secondary like front and back of the carb or size of the vacuum ports on the carb (ie big one primary small one secondary)?
 
I had the pcv valve running to the big port on the back of the carb normally used for the brake booster but since I didn’t have one I though the pcv just needed a vacuum port so I put it there
Where is "there" ? , and Where is it now?
OK, I still can't tell exactly where you plumbed the PCV system to.
So, One more time;
the PCV has to be plumbed to the FRONT of the carb,
on the nipple that is there for it, that splits and exits just below the two primary throttle valves; as shown in your pic in post #39..
If you install it on the back of the carb, it will act like a vacuum leak, and wreak havoc with your Idle-AFR. .
 
Where is "there" ? , and Where is it now?
OK, I still can't tell exactly where you plumbed the PCV system to.
So, One more time;
the PCV has to be plumbed to the FRONT of the carb,
on the nipple that is there for it, that splits and exits just below the two primary throttle valves; as shown in your pic in post #39..
If you install it on the back of the carb, it will act like a vacuum leak, and wreak havoc with your Idle-AFR. .
Roger that when I get the carb back on I’ll have the pcv connected to the front.
 
1E49AE74-CBFA-4022-950B-E51DDB631E40.jpeg
Where is "there" ? , and Where is it now?
OK, I still can't tell exactly where you plumbed the PCV system to.
So, One more time;
the PCV has to be plumbed to the FRONT of the carb,
on the nipple that is there for it, that splits and exits just below the two primary throttle valves; as shown in your pic in post #39..
If you install it on the back of the carb, it will act like a vacuum leak, and wreak havoc with your Idle-AFR. .
This is how it was set up
 
Ok got it;
Keywords; was set up
Ok completed the above checklist in post 36. Re-ran the pcv to the front of the carb made sure it had the right hose. Have the car idling around the rpm numbers you suggested. I say around because I have been trying to fix another problem that has now come up. When I hit the gas at all it sputters and dies. I’ve checked to make sure all the vacuum ports were connected/capped, no mixed up or damaged spark plug wires, rechecked that the carb is tight to the manifold…is this a lack of fuel issue or perhaps too much fuel? Am I still looking for a vacuum leak? I feel like one problem gets fixed another shows up that I had no clue was there before…
 
When I hit the gas at all it sputters and dies.
Hang on;
We are not there yet.
First we gotta make it idle.
Ok so, I'm assuming;
Part-1
1) that the engine temperature is 185 to 195degrees, and that you are at 1000ft elevation or less, and that the choke is wide open.
2) that the WET fuel level is correct for the carb.
On that Holley with the fixed fuel sight-windows; IIRC this should be half way up the windows. But I don't know that for a fact, so check it out.
3) that the transfer slot exposure under the throttles is about square
4) that the mixture screws are set to about 3/4 turn out from lightly seated
5) the Ignition timing is in the range of 10 to 16 degrees at Idle, with the Vcan defeated and that it does not change when you reconnect the Vcan to ported spark.
6) idle speed is about 550 in gear and
7) it does not increase by any more than plus 100/150, on the shift into neutral
8) for your cam; the 20-212-2, with 268/268/110Lsa advertised, and 218/[email protected]; the idle-vacuum is likely to lower than expected so Ima guessing about 15"inches to maybe 13. This is a guess, and could vary with your actual settings, especially the timing. It does not matter what it actually is so long as the engine is NOT getting any unauthorized air; it is only a point of reference.
9) I don't care about the fuel-pressure if it idles at a fairly steady rpm and does not flood itself to death.
If that is NOT what you got STOP! me now.
____________________
If that is what you got, then we can continue.
Part 2a
1) With engine warmed up and at idle, note the exact rpm, then stuff a rag into the Secondary side. This should affect the idle-rpm very very little; unless your carb has a 4-corner idle system.
2) assuming that you do NOT have a 4-corner; if the rpm changes more than 50 rpm, then very likely the secondaries are not closed, so fix it. Sometimes you have to bend the Secondary link-rod, sometimes there is a secondary cracking screw. For this 218*cam, the secondaries should be closed.
Part 2b
1) With engine warmed up and at idle, note the exact rpm, then using a rag, begin to restrict the primary air supply, by covering the airhorn.
If the AFR is exceptionally lean, the rpm will rise.
If the AFR is exceptionally rich, the rpm will fall immediately as the engine floods.
If the AFR is normal, the rpm will drop, but slowly, as the engine goes rich.
2) depending on what your engine does, it will point us towards what to do.
3) keep in mind that at idle, the fuel supply to the engine is a joint venture between the Idle mixture screws AND the Transfer-slots, so it is real easy to make the engine happy ...... or not, by varying ONE or the OTHER supply. If the idle speed changes during making her happy, then we change the Idle-speed using Ignition timing.
Part-3
1) In Park; rev up the engine to in the range of 1800 to 2000rpm or thereabouts and put the throttle on the nearest fast-idle step; exact rpm not important. Next; close the mixture screws lightly, and make sure the rpm goes down. Then open the mixture screws until the rpm peaks or the adjustment is more than 1.5 turns with the rpm still rising; this should not happen.
2) If it does, then the transfers are lean. The rpm should peak with the screws at from 1/2 to 1.0turns out from lightly seated. Put the screws back to 3/4 turn and kick the throttle back to idle, and let her cool off.
3) if the transfers are too lean, we have to figure out why, and fix that.
4) if the mixture screws behave normally, then you do not have a vacuum leak and we can continue.
Part-4
After you get the above business sorted out;
1) lets look at opening the throttle. The first few degrees are handled by the transfers. If you have a tip-in hesitation, which is; a moment in time that the rpm hangs, falters, or decreases, during SLOW opening of the throttle, we have to fix this. With the mixture screws properly set, likely the transfers are ever so slightly too far closed. Remember, this event occurs before the accelerator pump can respond, and it happens with a slow opening of the throttle. You have to fix this before moving on; because the pump can never eliminate this and when it happens, it is extremely annoying.
2) after that is fixed; make sure your accelerator pump squirts fuel the very instant that you open the throttle blades more than just a few degrees. Sometimes you have to bend the link-rod, or eliminate slack in the system, or change tuning parts.
3) During this hammer-down throttle-application, the ignition timing will have to immediately keep up. If your timing curve does not begin to advance until say 1600rpm, then you will have problems. Ideally, from idle, the timing should only have a small period (like 200/250rpm), of no activity. By 1000 rpm the timing should begin to advance. And the rate of advance should be about .70 to .80 degrees per 100rpm. Thus by 3600, the timing should have risen to between
(3600 less 1000idle)/100 x (.60 to .80) =16* to 21* over the base; AND it should in no wise be more than 36* in total, including your base idle setting. Not all engine combos will allow a total of 36*@3600; keep that in mind.
At WOT and say a 2200stall you should be looking at about
(2200 less 1000)/100, times say .7 = 8.4* plus the base of say 16=24.4*
The thing about all this is to give your engine as much timing as she wants, but not one degree more, and to keep her always always out of detonation.
Below stall, the engine does not really care much what the timing is because she never has to pull (work hard) down there. So, at this time, I wouldn't spend too much time on that part of the curve.
However, the more timing that she is able to handle down there, the nicer she will respond to throttle-inputs. In other words, lazy timing = lazy throttle-response. This has ALMOST nothing to do with a tip-in sag or a bog; and I have never cured either of those with more timing.
Ok so, that will keep you busy for a while, right now I got some things to do before it gets dark.
end
 
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Hang on;
We are not there yet.
First we gotta make it idle.
Ok so, I'm assuming;
Part-1
1) that the engine temperature is 185 to 195degrees, and that you are at 1000ft elevation or less, and that the choke is wide open.
2) that the WET fuel level is correct for the carb.
On that Holley with the fixed fuel sight-windows; IIRC this should be half way up the windows. But I don't know that for a fact, so check it out.
3) that the transfer slot exposure under the throttles is about square
4) that the mixture screws are set to about 3/4 turn out from lightly seated
5) the Ignition timing is in the range of 10 to 16 degrees at Idle, with the Vcan defeated and that it does not change when you reconnect the Vcan to ported spark.
6) idle speed is about 550 in gear and
7) it does not increase by any more than plus 100/150, on the shift into neutral
8) for your cam; the 20-212-2, with 268/268/110Lsa advertised, and 218/[email protected]; the idle-vacuum is likely to lower than expected so Ima guessing about 15"inches to maybe 13. This is a guess, and could vary with your actual settings, especially the timing. It does not matter what it actually is so long as the engine is NOT getting any unauthorized air; it is only a point of reference.
9) I don't care about the fuel-pressure if it idles at a fairly steady rpm and does not flood itself to death.
If that is NOT what you got STOP! me now.
____________________
If that is what you got, then we can continue.
Part 2a
1) With engine warmed up and at idle, note the exact rpm, then stuff a rag into the Secondary side. This should affect the idle-rpm very very little; unless your carb has a 4-corner idle system.
2) assuming that you do NOT have a 4-corner; if the rpm changes more than 50 rpm, then very likely the secondaries are not closed, so fix it. Sometimes you have to bend the Secondary link-rod, sometimes there is a secondary cracking screw. For this 218*cam, the secondaries should be closed.
Part 2b
1) With engine warmed up and at idle, note the exact rpm, then using a rag, begin to restrict the primary air supply, by covering the airhorn.
If the AFR is exceptionally lean, the rpm will rise.
If the AFR is exceptionally rich, the rpm will fall immediately as the engine floods.
If the AFR is normal, the rpm will drop, but slowly, as the engine goes rich.
2) depending on what your engine does, it will point us towards what to do.
3) keep in mind that at idle, the fuel supply to the engine is a joint venture between the Idle mixture screws AND the Transfer-slots, so it is real easy to make the engine happy ...... or not, by varying ONE or the OTHER supply. If the idle speed changes during making her happy, then we change the Idle-speed using Ignition timing.
Part-3
1) In Park; rev up the engine to in the range of 1800 to 2000rpm or thereabouts and put the throttle on the nearest fast-idle step; exact rpm not important. Next; close the mixture screws lightly, and make sure the rpm goes down. Then open the mixture screws until the rpm peaks or the adjustment is more than 1.5 turns with the rpm still rising; this should not happen.
2) If it does, then the transfers are lean. The rpm should peak with the screws at from 1/2 to 1.0turns out from lightly seated. Put the screws back to 3/4 turn and kick the throttle back to idle, and let her cool off.
3) if the transfers are too lean, we have to figure out why, and fix that.
4) if the mixture screws behave normally, then you do not have a vacuum leak and we can continue.
Part-4
After you get the above business sorted out;
1) lets look at opening the throttle. The first few degrees are handled by the transfers. If you have a tip-in hesitation, which is; a moment in time that the rpm hangs, falters, or decreases, during SLOW opening of the throttle, we have to fix this. With the mixture screws properly set, likely the transfers are ever so slightly too far closed. Remember, this event occurs before the accelerator pump can respond, and it happens with a slow opening of the throttle. You have to fix this before moving on; because the pump can never eliminate this and when it happens, it is extremely annoying.
2) after that is fixed; make sure your accelerator pump squirts fuel the very instant that you open the throttle blades more than just a few degrees. Sometimes you have to bend the link-rod, or eliminate slack in the system, or change tuning parts.
3) During this hammer-down throttle-application, the ignition timing will have to immediately keep up. If your timing curve does not begin to advance until say 1600rpm, then you will have problems. Ideally, from idle, the timing should only have a small period (like 200/250rpm), of no activity. By 1000 rpm the timing should begin to advance. And the rate of advance should be about .70 to .80 degrees per 100rpm. Thus by 3600, the timing should have risen to between
(3600 less 1000idle)/100 x (.60 to .80) =16* to 21* over the base; AND it should in no wise be more than 36* in total, including your base idle setting. Not all engine combos will allow a total of 36*@3600; keep that in mind.
At WOT and say a 2200stall you should be looking at about
(2200 less 1000)/100, times say .7 = 8.4* plus the base of say 16=24.4*
The thing about all this is to give your engine as much timing as she wants, but not one degree more, and to keep her always always out of detonation.
Below stall, the engine does not really care much what the timing is because she never has to pull (work hard) down there. So, at this time, I wouldn't spend too much time on that part of the curve.
However, the more timing that she is able to handle down there, the nicer she will respond to throttle-inputs. In other words, lazy timing = lazy throttle-response. This has ALMOST nothing to do with a tip-in sag or a bog; and I have never cured either of those with more timing.
Ok so, that will keep you busy for a while, right now I got some things to do before it gets dark.
end
Roger that! I’ll start running down these steps! Only part of step one I would say is false is here at Mountain Home AFB, ID we are at 3000ft elevation.
Also I mistyped in my frustration and tiredness last night. It doesn’t sputter and die when I hit the gas. She revs up fine. It’s when I let off the gas and it starts coming back to idle that it sputters and dies. I’m sorry I miss typed and you wrote all that out for it to not possibly apply here but I’ll still give it all a shot!
 
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LOL, no worries.
as to this;
It’s when I let off the gas and it starts coming back to idle that it sputters and dies.
>Depending on the exact circumstances surrounding this event, I would give a different answer;
but; if this occurs at closed throttle, then I would say that the throttle is too far closed, and the transfers are switching from flowing fuel, to bypassing air.
This sometimes happens when you try to run too much timing and still maintain a slow idle speed. The T-slot exposure under the throttles HAS to be a minimum of square. and the mixture screws have to be in the center of their adjustment range. The Idle-timing can be whatever. I can make that cam run dandy fine with just 5* of ignition advance.
Try this; using the speed screw, increase the idle-rpm by 200rpm. This will increase the transfer-slot fuel. Let's see if it goes away.
If it does then you are on the right track.
from the 200up rpm, decrease the idle-rpm by 100rpm, and if the idle-rpm is still too fast, drop timing until it gets back to 550/600 in gear. Then retest. If it still does it, increase the rpm again 100, and reduce timing if the rpm is too high. then retest.
>The idle-rpm is NOT too high until the transmission bangs when shifting from N/P to Manual-Low.
The Idle-rpm is too low if/when you get a tip-in sag when starting off gently. Or if the oil-pressure falls below 10psi; and especially if you have a heavy foot,lol
A good target Idle-rpm for that cam is 550/600 in gear, and up to 150 rpm higher in N/P; 100 is better. I would not purposely idle it higher than 750 in N/P
>As for your altitude; OOps, I have no experience for tuning at 3000ft. Mine stops at 1100.
At 3000ft, due to the thinner air, this will make a difference to your jetting. It will be rich. Compared to sealevel, you will need to drop all the MJs at least one size, two if running an oxygenated fuel. But, I think we can get the transfers to work OK.
> remember; at idle, you can switch back and forth between T-slot fuel and mixture-screw fuel to get the carb to behave. Just maintain the minimum square T-slot exposure.
> And don't forget about the fuel-level. A wrong WET level will wreak havoc with your low-speed tuning. If it is high, then your idle circuits will be rich, which at 3000ft is bad. If the Wet level is low, then your idle circuits will be lean; usually this is bad. In your case, a lil lean might be OK. At WOT, you can easily compensate for low fuel level with jet sizing.

If you haven't guessed it by now, for a street car, your low-speed circuits are by far the most important to have tuned right. This is where you spend your time. Take your time.
Part-2
But as to this;
It’s when I let off the gas and it starts coming back to idle that it sputters and dies.
>Depending on the exact circumstances surrounding this event, I would give a different answer;
if this begins happening right away as soon as you lift, then very likely the engine has gone over-rich. Try this; as soon as it sputters, gently open the throttle a few degrees and hold it there.
If the engine picks up a lil, and the car then surges ahead, like being pulled by a rubber band; then it is recovering from a lean condition.
But if it burbles, farts or coughs before it picks up, then it was likely flooding. You will have to pull your PV out and test it.
>The plugs should tell the story.
>If the nose dropped just before this began, the fuel might be sloshing around in your bowls and you will need some slosh control. or
the fuel-level could simply be too high. or
the engine temp is too low, and fuel is puddling in the plenum.or
the too-big MJs have flooded it and you slammed the throttle shut at a bad moment, lol.

I run my 367 at 207*F, because the cooling system is dead-nuts reliable. Keep in mind; the thermostat sets the MINIMUM coolant temperature, and NOT the maximum, which is governed by the efficiency of the system. To that end I run a thermostatically-controlled clutch on my 7-blade hi-attack-angle, all metal fan. The temp runs just about exactly 207* no matter what goes on around it.
 
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