How bad did I drop the ball?

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pharmboy

pharmboy

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Indiana, and elsewhere
Well, I'm not sure exactly where things stand with my car right now. My mechanic told me it needed new brakes all around and a front suspension rebuild. Well, I ordered a PST Polygraphite front end kit, and decided to get the scarebird conversion. Well, he couldn't get one of the torsion bars out, so I had to order him a tool from Mancini. After that, the torsion bar snapped coming out, so I ordered a set of .880 Firm-Feel bars, which were on backorder for almost a month...they didn't inform me of this. Well, I decided with all this going on, why not just add the Addco type front sway bar, and leave nothing out.

My mechanic received the sway bar, and claimed there is no way they could fit on the car. He also mentioned that this would be a good upgrade if I switched to a Mustang II front end...I've not heard of such a swap on an A-body...not without massive work. In short, he refuses to do anything else to it, as the amount of things being done would put him in a bad position due to possible liability. He also explained how torsion bars work (I know they do the job that coil springs would in most cars), but also that they do the job that a sway bar would. I haven't heard that last bit, but I'm thinking he's quite mistaken. Anyway, this is a long/rambling post, but did I screw up royally by leaving my car with this guy for the last...three months?

Oh, also to clear the new discs, I've gotten a set of 14x6 aluminum slots. I may just have to do the sway bar myself...assuming the car ever gets out of the shop.
 
There are 2 different swaybar designs (they prevent body roll by the way). One gos throught the K and the other goes around the K. Clearly , if you have an early A k that is solid your mechanic wont be able to install it. On the other hand , if you have a late open K either type bar will work.
I dont know if scarebird kits place the caliper at 11 oclock or 1 oclock positions so that may be a conflict with addcos bar as well.
 
He is correct that torsion bars are the same as springs, but a sway bar does NOT do the same thing. Springs (torsion bars) support the weight of the car. A sway bar adds lateral stability in turns. Not something you actually need, but will make your ride handle better. My Valiant handles just fine without it. Bigger cars tend to benefit from them because of their weight.

I personally don't think I've ever heard of anyone putting a Mustang II front end in a Mopar. That's street rod stuff and generic street rod stuff at that. Mopar suspension systems work great, no need to mess with it in a street car. A sway bar would be a perfectly fine upgrade without the Mustang II. He's definitely wrong there.

Rebuilding your front end and brakes shouldn't take 3 months, unless the parts took a really long time to get there. Front end could take a while since you're dealing with 40-year-old crud and worn-out parts. Brakes should only take a few hours if you have everything you need. The whole thing should only take a few days tops if he's relatively competent.

Unless it's all apart, I'd find someone else.
 
rmchrgr said:
He is correct that torsion bars are the same as springs, but a sway bar does NOT do the same thing. Springs (torsion bars) support the weight of the car. A sway bar adds lateral stability in turns. Not something you actually need, but will make your ride handle better. My Valiant handles just fine without it. Bigger cars tend to benefit from them because of their weight.

I personally don't think I've ever heard of anyone putting a Mustang II front end in a Mopar. That's street rod stuff and generic street rod stuff at that. Mopar suspension systems work great, no need to mess with it in a street car. A sway bar would be a perfectly fine upgrade without the Mustang II. He's definitely wrong there.

Rebuilding your front end and brakes shouldn't take 3 months, unless the parts took a really long time to get there. Front end could take a while since you're dealing with 40-year-old crud and worn-out parts. Brakes should only take a few hours if you have everything you need. The whole thing should only take a few days tops if he's relatively competent.

Unless it's all apart, I'd find someone else.
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Ditto. Someone that knows what they're doing should be able to do that whole job in one day. The only thing he may be right about is the sway bar. The brakes may contact the sway bar while turning, and that bar may be unusable in your car with discs.
 
AdamR said:
Find a new mechanic.
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X2

, I've removed a few t-bars over the years and pulled ALL of them out by hand, no tool, once the tension was off of them.
Rebuilding a front end is just a tad more involved than a brake job as long as you take the control arms to have the bushings pressed out/in.
 
Well, the torsion bars took a month to come in...seems they were backordered from Firm Feel and no one told me. The front end kit took almost as long, namely because of a scarcity of right lower ball joints(this was from Just Suspension). And unfortunately, the car is apart, which prohibits it being moved to somewhere more apt to do this job.
 
I think I would find another mechanic!

There is no reason a torsion bar should snap when being removed unless it was subject to side loads by someone that didn't know what they were doing. If the bar was bad an on the verge of breaking to start with you should be able to see a difference in the surface across the bar where it broke.

Unless you purchased the wrong part number the ADDCO bars fit fine, I have one on my 68 Barracuda. It uses a L-bracket that fits under the shock mounting bolt attaching the end link to the lower control arm and the factory mounting holes on the k-member to mount the bar.

Torsion bars work exactly the same as coil springs and as a matter of fact a coil spring is nothing more than a torsion bar that has been coiled up. The metal that makes up both is subjected to the same torsional stress along the length. A torsion bar provides no more anti roll control than a coil spring, in either case you will get more anti roll with a coil or bar that has a higher spring rate. Use of an anti roll bar allows for a lower spring rate for ride and maintaining tire contact on rough roads while controlling the body roll.

Did you screw up? To use the "screw up" term is pretty harsh but its obvious to me the mechanic is not of a high caliber. REbuilding a front end should not take more than a day, two if you really take your time. Same for a disk brake swap, if the swap was being done at the same time as the front end rebuild there should be very little extra time required. The Sway Bar install is a couple of hours. There is no reason for the car to have been tied up for 3 months.
 
I would find another mechanic. I have pulled the entire front suspension (including t-bars), torn it all down, sandblasted it, rebooted and re bushed it, did a paint and bake on everything, and installed the scarebird conversion. Im about 90% done and I have less than 40 total hours time in on it all. Also, him not wanting to do anything else due to liability is a laugh and a half. Thats what mechanics get paid for. To do the job right so there is NO liability.
 
How the heck do you snap a torsion bar taking it out. I have removed more than my share of them, sometimes they slide right out, sometimes they have to be beat out with a clampdown torsion bar remover, and if its from a junk car I'll even cut them in half with a die grinder. But never, NEVER, have I heard of a torsion bar snapping trying to remove it. What the heck was this guy doing under there. Has anybody ever tried to cut through a torsion bar with anything but a torch?? They are harder than my kids head. If I were you, I would not allow him to work under your car unless you are there, and then only to help load it on a trailer to take to a real, qualified mechanic. If he refuses to work on it, you are going to have to take it out of there somehow anyway. Better to get it out of there before anything happens to it. Just my 2 centavos!!!
 
Get that torsion bar that "snapped" take some pictures and post them on here. We would like to see this.

I would pay the fellow whatever amount he is going to want for doing nothing, get a roll back and get my car out of that hillbilly sounded place.

I wouldn't install Poly lower control arm bushings... those things squeak pretty bad from what I have read. Just the rubber ones will be fine..
 
Totally agreed with the guys. This clown don't know beans about our Mopars apparently. It seems strange to me that he considers repairing the stock suspension a liability but thinks doing a mudstainII conversion ok. Sounds to me like he's just wanting the green in your wallet.
 
mullinax95 said:
I wouldn't install Poly lower control arm bushings... those things squeak pretty bad from what I have read. Just the rubber ones will be fine..
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PST's kit comes with rubber LCA bushings for that very reason. Everything else is poly. I checked out the kit...nice stuff. If only I weren't on the road for 28 days a month...
 
If you have problems with the sway bar hitting the brakes I think I read somewhere you can switch the spindles from side to side to get the calipers out of the way. Somebody correct me if I am wrong about that.
 
pharmboy said:
Well, he couldn't get one of the torsion bars out, so I had to order him a tool from Mancini. After that, the torsion bar snapped coming out, so I ordered a set of .880 Firm-Feel bars,

Anyway, this is a long/rambling post, but did I screw up royally by leaving my car with this guy for the last...three months?

quote]


:bs: :protest: If you have to supply the.....:tool:.......there's definitely something wrong with this picture IMO.

3 months sounds like an awful long time for suspension & brakes even with waiting a month on parts.

Good Luck.......Maybe time for a "little" nudge....."friendly" pressure?
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I agree with pretty much everyone else, get that thing together somehow and get it to someone who has a clue. Finding that someone might be tough, but it soulds like you can't do any worse!

I don't know if you've got a similar place in your area, but I've always taken my mopars to a local spring/suspension shop. Maybe 70% of what they do is heavy duty trucks and commercial stuff but they do a few cars as well. Since they only do suspension work the price and time line is usually pretty good.

Good luck!
 
furz4 said:
If you have problems with the sway bar hitting the brakes I think I read somewhere you can switch the spindles from side to side to get the calipers out of the way. Somebody correct me if I am wrong about that.
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This is true for stock parts but I'm not sure on the Scarebird stuff he has.
 
As far as the caliper/swaybar contact issue. I'm not an expert, but looking at things from a logical perspective...The 1-piston Chevy calipers are smaller than the 4-piston Kelsey-Hayes units, and they appear to mount slightly higher than the stock units. Given this, I'd think that the swaybar would clear. If not, Enough staring/head-scratching would probably make it work.
 
pharmboy said:
PST's kit comes with rubber LCA bushings for that very reason. Everything else is poly. I checked out the kit...nice stuff. If only I weren't on the road for 28 days a month...
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Cool ... just didn't want you to have a squeaky front end.

cudaspaz said:
Dude, you can rebuild that whole car with advice from this forum.

Just take it home and ask away.
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That's very true. If you can a computer cam (whatever those things are called) someone would actually help you out while you worked on it I bet. LOL!
 
mullinax95 said:
....That's very true. If you can a computer cam (whatever those things are called) someone would actually help you out while you worked on it I bet. LOL!
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Hell yeah, plug the laptop in next to the grinder and bust out the web cam. We could all sit back with a cold one while one guy does the work.... just like being there!!! :lol:
 
player1up said:
Hell yeah, plug the laptop in next to the grinder and bust out the web cam. We could all sit back with a cold one while one guy does the work.... just like being there!!! :lol:
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LOL!

"No, No not like that! ... Let the jack down real slow.. now see if it will move now ... Damn it!.. ok let's thank about this for a second... hold on let me go get another cold one .............ok I'm back ... You got a BFH!"
 
3 months?? For brakes & front end job? Get your car outta there! You could have built a tube chassis for it in 3 months time. & the fact that he mentioned the Mustang II front end...? Please. He is clearly a GM/Ford guy.

Gey your car & run for the hills!!!
 
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