How do 318 powered A-Bodies do in NHRA PURE Stock?

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MRGTX

MRGTX

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[Edit: I initially asked about Stock Eliminator...but being mostly clueless about NHRA rules, I actually meant Pure Stock.]

Do any of you guys run in [Pure Stock]?
What do you drive? How do you like it?

I have been looking into engine swaps for my Dart recently but a friend and fellow car nut who did a lot of drag racing back in the 70s and 80s thinks that a more fun route might be to rebuild the 318 and go racing in [Pure Stock]...

This does indeed sound like a blast. Also, that little 318 2bbl was very good to me...and I like the idea of giving it a new lease on life. :)

I gather that the whole point is to keep the cars with relatively original equipment...but how far can you go with the rebuild? I believe that you can bore something like .030, run an aluminum intake manifold...what about cams? Heads?
I suppose I could google the rule book... :)

So with any class in, there are cars at the high end and the low end of a class. I recall running my barely modified Miata in SCCA/Solo2, and i was put into C-Street prepared which put me up against some seriously fast cars...and very little hopes of a top finish. Still fun...but less fun than being competitive.

So how would a 318 Dart Sport or a Duster do in this class? 150 Net horsepower should keep it out of the way of the real muscle machines...but the superb weight transfer of these cars might help it maximize the power it does have.


Thanks for any advice/opinions!!
 
It can be done, Big $$$$$$$$ to run Stock these days...Even in P-Z class.Go to NHRA.com and look for the class you think you can run in.Intake has to be stock cast iron for a 318 2bbl for sure.
We have a guy from Vegas area running a 273 2bbl 65 Valiant name is Paul Wong. Maybe you can fine info about him and his cars on the internet to see how he does it.
 
Darter6 said:
It can be done, Big $$$$$$$$ to run Stock these days...Even in P-Z class.Go to NHRA.com and look for the class you think you can run in.Intake has to be stock cast iron for a 318 2bbl for sure.
We have a guy from Vegas area running a 273 2bbl 65 Valiant name is Paul Wong. Maybe you can fine info about him and his cars on the internet to see how he does it.
Click to expand...

Great info... thanks. I'll look up Paul and see what I can learn.
The "Big $" issue may put me out of this class though!!

1968dartman said:
If you went pure stock it would be cheaper!
Click to expand...

THIS might be what my friend was talking about. I just found these rules...this sounds do-able...but doesn't offer much guidance about the motor, only that it has to be the original motor and drivetrain...

Pure Stock Street Legal Supplemental Rules​
Vehicles must meet all state-highway safety requirements for the state in which the vehicle is registered and must remain as produced by the OEM manufacturer to be deemed an accepted street-legal vehicle. All vehicles must be street driven, display valid license plates (or temporary permits), and have proof of vehicle registration and valid insurance.

REQUIREMENTS & SPECIFICATIONS

ENGINE
Engine/Transmission
OEM production engine and transmission case and components must be as produced by OEM manufacturer for the particular vehicle application. All other engines and transmissions prohibited.
Exhaust System
All vehicles must be equipped with mufflers and a functional exhaust system that extends at least behind the drivers' seat. Competition exhaust permitted. Exhaust must be directed out of car to rear, away from driver and fuel tank.
Fuel
Racing gasoline, gasoline, gasohol, diesel, ethanol, natural gas, and propane permitted. Nitromethane prohibited.
Fuel System/Battery
All batteries, fuel tanks, fuel lines, fuel pumps, or filler necks must retain stock OEM location as produced by the OEM manufacturer.
Liquid Overflow
Catch-can mandatory for coolant overflow; one-pint (16-ounce) minimum capacity.
Nitrous Oxide
Prohibited. The use of nitrous oxide will deem the vehicle non-street-legal and car will be classified under E.T. Handicap Racing rules.
Supercharger, Turbocharger
Original OEM supercharger or turbocharger permitted. Any non-OEM, high helix, or screw-type supercharger prohibited.
BRAKES & SUSPENSION
Brakes
Four-wheel OEM-style brake system mandatory.
Steering
Each car in competition must have sufficient positive front-end alignment to ensure proper handling of car at all speeds.
Suspension
All cars must have a full suspension system of the type produced by an automobile manufacturer (i.e. springs, torsion bars, etc.). Lightening of stock components prohibited. Rigid mounted suspensions prohibited.
TIRES & WHEELS
Tires
Street tires or DOT drag radials permitted. Racing slicks prohibited.
Wheels
Must be automotive-type wheels suitable for street use.
BODY
Body
Must have full top and windshield as produced by OEM manufacturer. All full-bodied cars must have two driver exits. Both doors must be functional from inside and outside on all full-bodied cars. Four stock-production fenders mandatory, body kits permitted.
Firewall
Mandatory, as produced by OEM manufacturer. Firewall may not be altered in any manner.
Hood
Mandatory.
Seats
Properly braced, framed, and supported OEM-style seats mandatory.
Windshield, Windows
Mandatory, as produced by OEM manufacturer only. Must be in good condition and free of cracks. Windshield/window tint must meet the applicable state requirements. Windows must be closed during races; need not be operable. Decals permitted on rear quarter and rear window only. Competition-number decals are permitted on any window or windshield.
ELECTRICAL
Batteries
Batteries must be securely mounted in stock OEM location only.
Ignition
OEM-designed ignition system permitted.
Headlights, Taillights
All lights must be operational.
SUPPORT GROUP
Computer
Computers installed on stock vehicles by the new-vehicle manufacturers for the proper operation of such vehicles are permitted. OEM electronic fuel injection permitted.
Electronics
The use of racing electronics (i.e. delay box, throttle stop, etc.) strictly prohibited.
Fire-extinguisher system
Permitted; must be securely mounted.
DRIVER
Credentials
Driver must have a valid unrestricted state- or government-issued driver's license, with no underage driving restrictions (i.e. supervised, provisional, etc.).
Driver Restraint System
Seat belt mandatory in all cars as produced by OEM manufacturer. Aftermarket driver-restraint systems with higher rating than OEM permitted.
Helmet Drivers in all 13.99 (8.59 eighth-mile) or quicker cars must wear a helmet meeting Snell 90, 95, K98, 2000 or SFI 31.1A, 31.2A, 41.1A, or 41.2A Specs. Protective Clothing
All drivers are required to wear full-length pants, shoes, and socks. Nylon or nylon-type clothing and open-toe shoes prohibited. Shorts, bare legs, tank tops, or bare torsos prohibited.
 
Stock eleminator racing isn't for the weak. LOL
Big dollars!
Alot of these guys farm out engine componets to get reworked to different machine shops.
The heads go to one, the pistons to another & so on. This is how cut-throat it is, they don't want just one machine shop to know their secrets.
My friend has a 1973/74 stocker Duster. Depending on class, runs either a 340 or 360.
How about 10.90's on a nine inch tire! All this with a cam at stock specs, low compression, small valve heads, stock carb & intake.
That takes some serious money & ability to do.
Its real easy to bolt on parts & go fast, but these stocker guys are a whole different cat.
If you are serious about getting your feet wet in racing stockers, I would suggest buying a turn key operation. You can save alot of money doing this.
 
You need to read the NHRA rules. The engine must remain essentially STOCK, complete with factory equivalent pistons, and the rules speak of using a thick head gasket to make up for head milling, so NO increases in compression, must run original TWO barrel intake AND original type carb, so no "big Holley" 2bbls adapted, no head porting/ polishing, etc.

First thing to do is find out what class the car would be in, and what end of the "weight break" it lands in.

The other problem with ANY stock type class is that you are dealing "against money." That is, when you have a situation like this, the "guys with money" can spend a lot of it tweaking a stock carb, and dyno time, which you may or may not have. The point is, it's more expensive and difficult to tweak (example) a carb like this, because there IS NO speed equipment available for them. And since they are LONG out of production, I have no idea where you get jets, etc.

NHRA requires you to BUY the rule book, but every once in awhile, I"ve been able to find a download link!!

Here's the 2012 to 2013 "rules amendments"

[ame]http://www.nhra.com/UserFiles/file/2012%20to%202013%20Rule%20Book%20Amendments.pdf[/ame]
 
You have to run a 2bbl. in that class? Since the 318 did come with a 4bbl. option in later years, a problem it would be to swing that intake on top? That would kind of suck if so.
 
i have a close friend that runs stock eliminator in a pontiac firebird. everything you know about engines can be thrown out the window. his cam shaft MEASURES in at stock lift but he is getting nearly twice that at the valve............ when i saw the cam shaft the first time i thought he was pulling my leg. there are aloooooot of little secrets. alot of E.T. is shaved of with light weight rotating assembly's in trans and rear diff. his pontiac weights 3600lbs and 60fts in the the 1.4's and is doing over a hundred by the 1/8 mile but crosses the 1/4 at only 112 mph. the car runs 11.20-11.40 @ 112-114mph. it is all done by the 1/8 mile.
 
Is the Pure Stock a NHRA class? I have seen the Pure Stock Drags and the FAST racing but they are limited to certain tracks in the midwest I think. It would be a fun type of racing, but again you are up against the guys with money to spend. NHRA stock is also about money now. And they wonder why the class has to be combined with Super Stock?
I'm sure glad my local track has a DOT tire series with 10.50 & slower cars, yeah you still get the race cars but the majority are low buck street cars like mine.
 
Thanks to all for the input...

67Dart273 said:
You need to read the NHRA rules. The engine must remain essentially STOCK, complete with factory equivalent pistons, and the rules speak of using a thick head gasket to make up for head milling, so NO increases in compression, must run original TWO barrel intake AND original type carb, so no "big Holley" 2bbls adapted, no head porting/ polishing, etc.

First thing to do is find out what class the car would be in, and what end of the "weight break" it lands in.

The other problem with ANY stock type class is that you are dealing "against money." That is, when you have a situation like this, the "guys with money" can spend a lot of it tweaking a stock carb, and dyno time, which you may or may not have. The point is, it's more expensive and difficult to tweak (example) a carb like this, because there IS NO speed equipment available for them. And since they are LONG out of production, I have no idea where you get jets, etc.

NHRA requires you to BUY the rule book, but every once in awhile, I"ve been able to find a download link!!

Here's the 2012 to 2013 "rules amendments"

http://www.nhra.com/UserFiles/file/2012 to 2013 Rule Book Amendments.pdf
Click to expand...

That's a bucket of cold water! The stock carb is certainly not a high performance unit. The stock cam is also about as lazy as I have ever experienced in a small V8. Don't get me wrong, a stock 318 is a smooth, torquey, enjoyable motor...but a hot rod, it is not. :)

So far, I haven't been able to get the rule amendment link to open but I'll do so on my home computer (yeah, I'm at work! :D ) Thanks!

I certainly understand the "racing against money" problem... and that's one reason why this "pure stock" class initially sounded appealing. It sounds like the idea of not having to spend a lot of money on equipment is just wrong...that there is actually a lot of wacky stuff that can be done within the rules at the expense of time and/or development dollars, two things for which I have limited quantities.

I'll read up but so far it seems like the 318 is not a great starting point for this class.

It sounds like bracket racing might be the poor man's best bet...are there any classes that don't allow for electronic junk?
 
as a side note...the 73 or 74 Dart sport....the 318 can be removed and a 340 for 73 year model...and 360 for 74 year model can be installed...NHRA does not check the VIN to see what the original engine is....any engine that was available for that year model is legal...
 
70aarcuda said:
as a side note...the 73 or 74 Dart sport....the 318 can be removed and a 340 for 73 year model...and 360 for 74 year model can be installed...NHRA does not check the VIN to see what the original engine is....any engine that was available for that year model is legal...
Click to expand...

Good point.... Unfortunately, original '73 340s are pretty hard to come by and 360s would presumably not be legal...

...plus, this probably wouldn't help my odds since (I assume) the high-po cars would be classified differently from the 318s and face more powerful competition.

The "Class Racer" link has me thinking on this one again.

BTW, you have some incredible machinery in your fleet. I'm serioulsy envious!! :D
 
Just wondering....helped a friend road race in a "stock" class years ago. Memory is very foggy but rules required runners to be stock cc. Seem to remember that guys would port the snot out of them, and then mill the intake face down to get the volume to the right cc and then install "spacers" between the intake & heads. Got away with it because the rules said the head had to be xx cc's...but the rules did not specify that you could not run a spacer. Like I said it was damn close to 30 years ago so my memory if probably a bit off. I do remember helping a friend who road raced bikes and they had a stock rule. And it was well known that the rules were open for interpretation..........there was one guy that ran a 600 that flat out would smoke the same brand bike going down the straight-a-ways......I am talking 6-8 bike lengths...
 
You need to clarify if it's "Stock" or "Pure Stock" you are interested in. Either way, you are limited to the engine specs outlined for the year you are claiming the car in. Besides the group mentioned earlier that has a "Pure Stock" class, IHRA also has a place for it. But the rules are pretty "pure" with a few little exceptions.

"Stock" in NHRA and IHRA is a whole different ballgame and, as pointed out, can be VERY expensive. There are some obscure combos that racers find that can run pretty far under the index. But the HP factors that the sanctioning bodies assign to them, not always the factory rating, can be changed by them to help even things out. But if you can get it to run at least a little under the index specified for the class you are in, you are competitive! (Index is the minimum performance requirement tht each class has.) In other words, if your index is 13.05 and all you can run is 13.25 - too bad, you get dialed in at 13.05. You can dial faster than your index. Just remember that it's basically a bracket race besides the qualifying and if you should end up running against another car in your specific class. Then it's heads-up!

Inkjunkie - the class you are recollecting may have been Super Stock. I recall Ed Hamburger use to have spacers for intakes, but he actually used Chevy small block intakes on his Mopars! But that was before we had a wide variety of good racing intakes to choose from. It definitely was not allowed in "Stock" at any time and I'm pretty sure it hasn't been allowed in SS for quite a while now.
 
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