How many of you would buy an aftermarket block in low deck height. Aluminum, cast iron, up to 4.500 bore size.

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MOPARMAGA said:
I agree, the price is outrageous.
There are pretty nice options for out there for the small block guys.
I will probably see what I can do to make a factory block into big bore with sleeves, I would like to achieve a 4.500 inch bore, I think the only way possible to accomplish it is a 3/32 thick sleeve and hard block it.
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Respectfully NOT a good idea mainly because the column strength is lost when sizing the block for the sleeve. There are ways it might work but it would be a lot of ...WORK. (brazing and machining etc) Then it still a crapshoot if it'll live.
 
33IMP said:
I think there are several ways to crutch a production block to get it to survive a high power level, at least for a while. A lot of tricks can be tried on a stock block for the money an aftermarket block costs. You just can't really get the nice big bore that an aftermarket block offers.
Malex just found some cracks in his race engine, after several years of low 10 second power. I think he was planning on an aftermarket block.......but ran across another stocker, and gonna build that.
(Oops, just realized I am on A-bodies. Malex's thread is on B-bodies, he runs a 64 belvedere)
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Don't have Wallace handy but he was only showing 650ish HP too. But HP isn't the only thing that breaks blocks as has been mentioned.
 
Couple other points while I'm here. The RB is really unnecessarily tall for less than 572 CID IMO. One of many reasons I always liked the B eng. While I didnt weight it, the KB block is heavier than the INDY but it is stronger !no doubt! Indy was near production of better design block last i checked but it was RB height. The old Indy alloy RB used to be advertised at 144lbs FWIW. I think something similar to a KB low-deck would be a good seller considering the head options available for 4.8" BS
 
ValiantS said:
Respectfully NOT a good idea mainly because the column strength is lost when sizing the block for the sleeve. There are ways it might work but it would be a lot of ...WORK. (brazing and machining etc) Then it still a crapshoot if it'll live.
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I have a standard bore 400 mock up block here at home that's cracked in the main saddle.
I was going to bore some holes in it to see what I can possibly get done. I do think 4.500 is too big for a stock casting. I am a engine machinist so atleast I won't have to worry about those costs.
I have also been thinking about Ford 460 sleeves and running a 4.402 .060 over 400 piston, that's a more reasonable bore size
 
MOPARMAGA said:
I have a standard bore 400 mock up block here at home that's cracked in the main saddle.
I was going to bore some holes in it to see what I can possibly get done. I do think 4.500 is too big for a stock casting. I am a engine machinist so atleast I won't have to worry about those costs.
I have also been thinking about Ford 460 sleeves and running a 4.402 .060 over 400 piston, that's a more reasonable bore size
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Excellent but one qualifier would be the remaining parent wall cross-section after it gets machined. A good sleeve can be .080 wall. All this said there weren't good rings available in 4.4 until about 4.430ish last I checked. I'll take a good ringed 4,375ish bore with the usual tricks over a 1/16" ring 4.420 bore any day. Another sleeve possibility is if you could thread the block and sleeve. Depending on the ability to machine and create this 'superblock' It'd be a good idea to offset the mains for a 9/16 stud and ring dowel both fasteners for a custom alloy cap. After the lifter bores were properly bushed and indexed should be a solid foundation for 900HP...
 
ValiantS said:
Excellent but one qualifier would be the remaining parent wall cross-section after it gets machined. A good sleeve can be .080 wall. All this said there weren't good rings available in 4.4 until about 4.430ish last I checked. I'll take a good ringed 4,375ish bore with the usual tricks over a 1/16" ring 4.420 bore any day. Another sleeve possibility is if you could thread the block and sleeve. Depending on the ability to machine and create this 'superblock' It'd be a good idea to offset the mains for a 9/16 stud and ring dowel both fasteners for a custom alloy cap. After the lifter bores were properly bushed and indexed should be a solid foundation for 900HP...
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Thanks, that is true about ring availability. Great advice in there too
 
What you are after is sort of out there a
ready. TFX, AJE, etc. make water blocks with HEMI bolt patterns. These blocks can be drilled to accept a wedge head. This really isn't needed as there are Indy -13 and Predator heads with the HEMI pattern. To our liking many of these blocks are 9.980 deck height however be forewarned the deck heights can vary from +.100 to -.500". Other things to look for are lifter spacing, lifter bank angle and of course cam tunnel bore/height. The right optioned, used ( not used up) tfx/aje/jp1/bae etc. short block would be a good candidate to slide under some 383 -13's. One drawback to some of the blocks is a small bore (4.310" nominal) but those are usually blown alky setups with no water jackets so mute point.

I may or may not have been casually looking for such a beast : D

Dry sump, gear drive, HD everything..what's not to like?
 
Jeremiah said:
What you are after is sort of out there a
ready. TFX, AJE, etc. make water blocks with HEMI bolt patterns. These blocks can be drilled to accept a wedge head. This really isn't needed as there are Indy -13 and Predator heads with the HEMI pattern. To our liking many of these blocks are 9.980 deck height however be forewarned the deck heights can vary from +.100 to -.500". Other things to look for are lifter spacing, lifter bank angle and of course cam tunnel bore/height. The right optioned, used ( not used up) tfx/aje/jp1/bae etc. short block would be a good candidate to slide under some 383 -13's. One drawback to some of the blocks is a small bore (4.310" nominal) but those are usually blown alky setups with no water jackets so mute point.

I may or may not have been casually looking for such a beast : D

Dry sump, gear drive, HD everything..what's not to like?
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Thanks Jeremiah, yes that would be a bad *** set up.
 
MOPARMAGA said:
Thanks Jeremiah, yes that would be a bad *** set up.
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Sharing a low budget, shade tree idea on how to make a bunch of old/obsolete/obscure race engine parts into 1000+ hp budget beater...lol my pleasure sir.

I have found that most every part from that area of the racing world is made to the customer's specs. Shopping is a mission of discovery and everything has to be verified/measured.

Also of note a "water block" isn't always your typical water jacketed street block. This doesn't strike me as a big deal because at that power level I couldn't afford to street drive very often or for very long distances. I am too practical (and poor ) to wear out something like this on a drag and drive event. An oil cooler would be 100% necessary from what I have learned in my studies on the subject.
 
Jeremiah said:
What you are after is sort of out there a
ready. TFX, AJE, etc. make water blocks with HEMI bolt patterns. These blocks can be drilled to accept a wedge head. This really isn't needed as there are Indy -13 and Predator heads with the HEMI pattern. To our liking many of these blocks are 9.980 deck height however be forewarned the deck heights can vary from +.100 to -.500". Other things to look for are lifter spacing, lifter bank angle and of course cam tunnel bore/height. The right optioned, used ( not used up) tfx/aje/jp1/bae etc. short block would be a good candidate to slide under some 383 -13's. One drawback to some of the blocks is a


Sharing a low budget, shade tree idea on how to make a bunch of old/obsolete/obscure race engine parts into 1000+ hp budget beater...lol my pleasure sir.

I have found that most every part from that area of the racing world is made to the customer's specs. Shopping is a mission of discovery and everything has to be verified/measured.

Also of note a "water block" isn't always your typical water jacketed street block. This doesn't strike me as a big deal because at that power level I couldn't afford to street drive very often or for very long distances. I am too practical (and poor ) to wear out something like this on a drag and drive event. An oil cooler would be 100% necessary from what I have learned in my studies on the subject.
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Yeah being poor is sometimes good, it keeps me thinking. I always want to do things myself and having good people too bounce ideas off of us fun.
 
If it was a limited street / race only deal I planned on running a water cooled oil cooler (heat exchanger) and water passages through the heads w/ a return between the exhaust ports if possible ala Indy -1 etc. An external water pump would have to be used which is easier with a belt or gear drive so no problems there.

A dry sump would help tremendously from what I am told. I also planned on adding oil squirters for the cylinder walls (ala 3G Hemi).

I should really stop thinking about stuff like this!
 
Jeremiah said:
If it was a limited street / race only deal I planned on running a water cooled oil cooler (heat exchanger) and water passages through the heads w/ a return between the exhaust ports if possible ala Indy -1 etc. An external water pump would have to be used which is easier with a belt or gear drive so no problems there.

A dry sump would help tremendously from what I am told. I also planned on adding oil squirters for the cylinder walls (ala 3G Hemi).

I should really stop thinking about stuff like this!
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That's a whole bunch of good ideas
 
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