How to make this Dart Handle?

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Jo Diesel said:
Went Auto Cross yesterday and found out my car does not handle for crap. Thought it was pretty good but got my but handed to me. Plenty of power as I could drift around the entire track. I think subframe connectors, rear shocks wheels and tires, drop the front end, dial some neg camber. I was running 53's, Mustangs, Cobalts, and Mazda's were running 45-46 C6 Corvett, 44's and Evo ran a 41.3
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Tried to run coarse in 1st but was running out or fuel and could not get any traction. went to 2nd and dropped 2 seconds and it was a lot more drivable.
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Regardless, that looks cool as hell.

All stkck suspension?
 
Had a lot of fun and have never been able to push the car even close to that hard on the street. 6 cyl tors. bars 1 1/16 Super Bee Front Sway bars and Lift bars in the back that eliminated a lot of sway but I think I need to loosen them up some as they seem to tie up the rear suspension. Look like traction bar but clamp tight to front of spring. Car does not lean at all just slides sideways with the accelerator pedal. Top speed on track was 50 mph. 1/2 mi track with fig 8 in the middle is what we used Sunday.
 
IMO get decent performance tires first. My plan is to run 17" wheels just because there are so many availible tires including used ones with plenty of life. I dont know your driving level but I would also stay in street tires classes until you get thing dialed in.... Including the driver
 
Has anyone figured out the largest tire and what wheel to fit a totally OEM setup without cutting. I have 235/60/15 in the front, that rub on hard cornering, and 255/60/15 rear Would like to figure out something as I am WAY OVERDRIVING the tires
 
What tires are you running now? All season rock hards? If you are over driving the solution is driver as much as tires and more tire does not always equal good tire. How much does your car wieght?
 
Everyone's prefrences are different. I run a bench seat and manual steering (but my seat is now modified). As far as the car goes, you can go to my website's tech page and see what I've done to make it a better autocrosser.

The cheap and easy places to start on the car are the t-bars, and sway bar bushings. For driving, you're going to have to snug those belts up and plant your left foot in the corner. But if that was your first autocross, then you did fine. It takes a while to learn the game and to finese the car.

Another big difference is tires. There can be 2 to 4 seconds just in tires, even more if the tire and conditions are not a good match. I'm still running my 10 year old Toyo RA1s (225/50r15) which is a moderately good r-comp, decent in the wet and holds up well. Hardly the best autocross tire, but a lot stickier and more fun than my street tires. A good compromise for doing well while lasting a reasonably long time.

edit
Another thread on autocrossing
http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=238355
 
Running Firestone Firehawk Indy 500's And my car is a Feather Duster and weighs 3250 lb
 
I dont know your driving level but if you are just starting Autox I would start with a nice summer max performance street tire and a good aggressive alignment. Spend the rest of the money on making sure bushings/BJ/brakes and other components are 100% and then go to as many autox driving schools as you can. Evolution Performance school is worth every penny but costs ~$450 for two days. local clubs usually have a spring school for cheaper 50-100$ around here. Besides instruction you get tons of seat time.

If you think you will get serious, learn on street tires. Very sticky tires can mask bad driving habits. Not to mention more expense. Race rubber IS more fun. I'm content with ~0.975 as much fun at 1/8 the cost ;-) Its cheap to run and would be LIGHTYEARS better than any all season.

the usual suspects are in no particular order....


  • Hankook RS3; my favorite, cheap, durable and LOVE heat. e.g. no spraying. Ive worn these down to a slick and they still grip..
  • Dunlop StarSpec II; very chatty IMO good learning tire if you need the audible feedback. On my SRT now
  • Toyo R1R; VERY soft, wears like pencil erasers if you overdrive; currently on the back of my neon
  • BFG Rival; too new, seems fast I have them on the front of my neon
  • Kuhmo XS; Cheap, great response. likes heat, but can get too hot. NOT as much grip as the others, not great rain.
  • Bridgstone RE11; great all around including rain and cooler
  • weather. Never drove, but people love them. seem more expensive than others.
have fun


Tro
 
Jo Diesel said:
Running Firestone Firehawk Indy 500's And my car is a Feather Duster and weighs 3250 lb
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Those are fine tires all around for almost all terrain and weather conditions. If you had fun autocrossing and think you will do more then I would save those tires for what they are good for since they are no longer being made.

Also, for cars like ours, I somewhat disagree with the typical advice to use a street tire to learn on. There's too much torque and too much weight for the normal street tire and high power cars are hard enough to learn on to begin with. Rather a super high performance summer only street tire would be much better. While not cheap, you can also leave them on the car for every day use (depending on where you live and drive) for the warmer months. (Tro's post above has you covered for the options on these)

The downside is that a lot of these summer only 'street' tires are not available in sizes that you may want. Competition tires usually are, but I fully agree with Tro that for someone in your position a durable R comp is better than a super soft race or autocross compound. There's a decent selection of 225/50r15 and one Toyo, either the R1R or the R888, that is available in 235/50r15. A potential advantage of that tire is that the specs indicate it is less camber hungry than others. I'll likely try them once I wear out my RA1s and see if its true. A 15x7 rim will support a 235 OK. A 245 really should be on a 7.5 to 8" rim to make use of its extra width.

Your car's suspension: Generally traction bars are not good for this stuff. Clamp the front half of the spring is OK. I think its the cal-trac style that stays out of the way and isn't nearly so bad. Best solution for spring wrap is better first and second leaf along with clamping the front. Increase the front t-bar size especially if you get stickier tires.

Thought it was pretty good but got my but handed to me. Plenty of power as I could drift around the entire track. I think subframe connectors, rear shocks wheels and tires, drop the front end, dial some neg camber. I was running 53's, Mustangs, Cobalts, and Mazda's were running 45-46 C6 Corvett, 44's and Evo ran a 41.3
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Drop the front end just a little. Say to 1.5" instead of the roughly 2.25" called for in the shop book for Valiant/darts. The more the front is dropped, the more weight is carried by the front tires and the worse the caster gets. Its not a major amount, but every little bit counts. You can bring the back down by changing the spring arch or raising the front eye.

As far as your times go, if you had fun, that's primary. I'm a pretty decent driver, instructing at our novice scools and sometimes at events. My times are usually within a couple of seconds of the better local competition. . Even so, I'm consistantlyl about 5-6 seconds behind the nationally competitive drivers. This is true almost regardess as to which class. My goal is to keep closing that gap.

Figure out who the top drivers are, and if/when they post videos, study them. At events, see if you can get assistance (on your driving) See the cones the get behind and which ones they ignore. At our event this past weekend, you can see that raw times for the 'stock' Boxster Spyder and '99 Corvette were in the 41s and the 'Street Mod' Evo was in the 40s. They are all nationally competitive cars and drivers. The best Z06 driver was in the 44s.
 
What Leaf Springs do I need? I just about have all the upgrades to the front done and need to move to the back. I have priced ESOP 6-Leaf springs at Stock Height. Do I need 6- leaf or 5- leaf?

Thanks,
 
I would invest in Sway Bar and Good shocks. Being involved in sprint car racing we found softer springs kept the tires in contact with the pavement better. All depends how big track is to the load we put on them and how rough the track is
 
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