I have a question about A/F readings and a cam

[moper]

What happens when you add fuel at idle? What does the gage say?
IMO - you have a fast burning chamber there with an engine designed for it. It should not need anywhere near that much initial.
So two comments: 1 - A/F can show the same result at too lean as too rich. Either way results in O2 in the pipes and the interpretation is it's rich. 2 - Too much ignition advance can leave a lot of unburned fuel in the chamber. Also showing a rich condition.

So I would remove 10° of initial. Aim for 28-30° total with only 10-12° of initial and the rest in the distributor. Then I would go way lean on the idle mix, and note the result, and then go way rich and note the result.

 

[nm9stheham]

2 - Too much ignition advance can leave a lot of unburned fuel in the chamber. Also showing a rich condition.

If I may comment....unburned fuel usually makes an AFR go lean... The lower O2 consumption when some fuel is not being burned leaves a higher O2 content in the exhaust and the AFR meter interprets this as a lean AFR.

 

[moper]

You're right nm9. I said that totally wrong. They both will show lean because of the extra O2. Thanks for that!

 

[AJ/FormS]

RumpityrumpityrumpityrumpitrumpityRumpityrumpityrumpityrumpitrumpity

Thats the sound of the correct amount of advance as determined by the T-port sync.
Yes,it is more labored. As soon as you get the Vcan dialed in to work with the new mechanical curve, things will be better, except for the idle, and with an M/T it would be way smoother to drive. With a big TC this will not be that noticeable. But bringing in the Vcan earlier,faster, and more of it, will save you bucks at the pump.
You may be able to re-tune your accelerator pump, and save even more bucks.
Why are you idling at 800? I thought you had a 268 hydraulic cam? Ima thinking that should go down to 650/600 in gear.
Rhuump-id-ee....Rhuump-id-ee....Rhuump-id-ee....Rhuump-id-ee....Rhuump-id-ee....Rhuump-id-ee....
Thats the sound of correct T-port sync, and sloooow idle.
lol

 

[TrailBeast]

RumpityrumpityrumpityrumpitrumpityRumpityrumpityrumpityrumpitrumpity

Thats the sound of the correct amount of advance as determined by the T-port sync.
Yes,it is more labored. As soon as you get the Vcan dialed in to work with the new mechanical curve, things will be better, except for the idle, and with an M/T it would be way smoother to drive. With a big TC this will not be that noticeable. But bringing in the Vcan earlier,faster, and more of it, will save you bucks at the pump.
You may be able to re-tune your accelerator pump, and save even more bucks.
Why are you idling at 800? I thought you had a 268 hydraulic cam? Ima thinking that should go down to 650/600 in gear.
Rhuump-id-ee....Rhuump-id-ee....Rhuump-id-ee....Rhuump-id-ee....Rhuump-id-ee....Rhuump-id-ee....
Thats the sound of correct T-port sync, and sloooow idle.
lol

I liked the sound of your slower idle better.
I had it down around there when I first brought the timing back, and actually what I did was pop the hood, yank the distributor back about 4 degrees, popped the timing light on it and yep, almost exactly 4 degrees and that obviously brought the idle down to around 600 or so.
But then I still hadn't readjusted the mixture yet, so I did that at about 14:1
Now I don't care for the idle sound quality at 14:1 and a 600-650 idle in gear.

Everything mentioned is simple to try and change again and I'm actually doing it right now over the course of a few day between being hot out, people sleeping that work nights and 1 year old twins taking naps and their Mom getting some rest, I have limited times I can test setting changes.
My parking spot is just coming into shade right now, so I'll be after it again in a bit here.
Now it's just down to a matter of making tiny changes for sound quality, as everything else is coming into range just fine.

 

[AJ/FormS]

IACs are extremely useful.

My kids are all growedupN gone. I love them dearly, but G-O-N-E is good.heehee

 

[TrailBeast]

Ok, so the update is that I'm not going to run it with less than 20 intial, or leaner that about11.5-12:1
It just sounds to good there to mess with it any more.
Sure I can and did pull it down to as low as 16 degrees with A/F at 15, 14, 13, and 12.5 approximate average of course and it ran good there still but not the idle sound I wanted.
I'm not going for 100ths of a second time anywhere because I don't race so screw it.
I like how it sounds where it is and I'm leaving it there.

Thanks for the input on it everyone.
I appreciate it.

 

[AJ/FormS]

My Dad always timed his cars by ear too.

I like how mine sounds at 10* and 550rpm. You like 20* and 800.
I like perky, white and 19. Oops there's girls on here,heehee
Make that used to like; my honey is 59 now.

 

[TrailBeast]

My Dad always timed his cars by ear too.

I like how mine sounds at 10* and 550rpm. You like 20* and 800.
I like perky, white and 19. Oops there's girls on here,heehee
Make that used to like

Ah, so we do have more in common than we......nevermind, and forget I said anything.

 

[TrailBeast]

My Dad always timed his cars by ear too.

I like how mine sounds at 10* and 550rpm. You like 20* and 800.
I like perky, white and 19. Oops there's girls on here,heehee
Make that used to like

Not pointed at you or anything but one of my favorite phrases is "you say potato and I say SHUT UP DUMBASS!
You reminded me of it when you posted the "I like you like" thing.

 

[nm9stheham]

Sounds like the solution is to ignore the AFR meter when it is wrong... good choice!

 

[TrailBeast]

Sounds like the solution is to ignore the AFR meter when it is wrong... good choice!

I know right?
Actually I don't think it's wrong because I changed the timing and adjusted the A/F withing range and it runs fine there.
Just didn't like the idle so I richened it back up to about 12 at idle and brought the timing back up to 20 init and love it now.
As soon as it comes off idle the gauge shows pretty much exactly what the plugs show and the motor feels like.

 

[AJ/FormS]

Whatever did guys do before the invention of the AFR gauge?
Oh I remember, It takes a little longer to get things dialed in.Sometimes a lot longer.Just time.

 

[TrailBeast]

Whatever did guys do before the invention of the AFR gauge?
Oh I remember, It takes a little longer to get things dialed in.Sometimes a lot longer.Just time.

In my case I would have been happy without touching it.
It was the gauge that sent me around the big loop we just went through to come back to almost where I had it by ear and feel anyway.
Damn gauges, as sometimes I feel they give us information that just complicates matters and adds a distraction.
Sometimes I think we'd have a lot more driving fun without em.

 

[AJ/FormS]

I've gone 93 without one, and hit 32 mpgUS, also without.
I can certainly see their value in many circumstances, such as the dyno room, or whenever you are being paid by the hour, cuz time is money.
But I have to agree with you, on post#39

 

[nm9stheham]

Whatever did guys do before the invention of the AFR gauge?
Oh I remember, It takes a little longer to get things dialed in.Sometimes a lot longer.Just time.

I feel like I am cheating by putting one in my son's car LOL But at least he has something he can work to, rather than just by feel and interpretation of vague symptoms..... how do you teach someone what 'lean balking' feels like? You just have to feel it. But then again, sometimes a deeper understanding comes from the non-instrumented way; you really have to understand the carb's circuits before you can effectively look for non-instrumented symptoms.

BTW, I am obviously doing too much tuning thinking.....my son's 340 has not knocked once in 800-900 miles but last night I dreamed that it knocked for the first time and was analyzing it in my dream....Geezey Pete!

 

[AJ/FormS]

I get you on the dreaming. My brain has solved problems for me in my sleep, that I couldn't during the day. I call the divine revelation.
But it has also got a bazaar side.

 

[TrailBeast]

I get you on the dreaming. My brain has solved problems for me in my sleep, that I couldn't during the day. I call the divine revelation.
But it has also got a bazaar side.

Yea it does.
I dream sometimes that someone moved my car out of sight somewhere just for the fun of it, and they really didn't realize how funny it wasn't.
It always end up where I really want to cut their air off until they tap out and tell me where they put the damn car, or trying to understand that it was actually a fairly innocent practical joke and tell them how over it is.

 

[AJ/FormS]

I dream stuff like I'm out ripping around in my S with a passenger or two, and then suddenly my car is not a car anymore. Maybe it's a bicycle and I'm in the back seat of it. Yeah that's right, the bicycle has a car back seat. But wait the bicycle seems to do decidedly un-bicycle like things. Sometimes it morphs into a skate board or something else, or just plain disappears altogether.Sometimes any of these transportations still seem to have amazing amounts of power or even being able to fly. So I start to think(in my dream) that it's not the vehicles at all but rather me. It's me that is ripping around or flying or observing; and the vehicles are just along for the ride.
Yeah, so, this a lifetime of compilations. Don't think this happens every night.heehee....bazaar

 

[TrailBeast]

I dream stuff like I'm out ripping around in my S with a passenger or two, and then suddenly my car is not a car anymore. Maybe it's a bicycle and I'm in the back seat of it. Yeah that's right, the bicycle has a car back seat. But wait the bicycle seems to do decidedly un-bicycle like things. Sometimes it morphs into a skate board or something else, or just plain disappears altogether.Sometimes any of these transportations still seem to have amazing amounts of power or even being able to fly. So I start to think(in my dream) that it's not the vehicles at all but rather me. It's me that is ripping around or flying or observing; and the vehicles are just along for the ride.
Yeah, so, this a lifetime of compilations. Don't think this happens every night.heehee....bazaar

So exactly how long have you hated your Father? LOL

Most of mine are based on loosing the car and yours seem to be more about not being worthy of the car (especially apparently in front of other people.)
But then you overcome that and subconsciously know darn well that you are the only reason it exists to be there in the first place.
But no matter what it is, car board, tricycle or whatever, if it's yours it hauls a**.

It would be interesting if your dream had another vehicle of whatever type in competition with you.
Would it beat you?
Or would it get the jump on you and you finally catch it and pass before the finish.
Probably the second one, right?

Who knows, but it's all interesting.

 

[72bluNblu]

But it has also got a bazaar side.

Bazaar side?

That is bizarre

 

[AJ/FormS]

Sometimes I'm running for the joy of running. Sometimes the Air turns thick, and I can hardly get through it.
Sometimes I'm flying like Superman, enjoying the view. And then suddenly I get heavy and start to lose altitude. So I start to flap my arms to climb, but it's so hard and I can barely stay above the trees.
This one time I was trying to get away from a big ol' lion, but he was faster than me, and he bit me on my tender skinny azz( I was a lil younger then). I immediately woke up. And immediately felt my sore cheek. It hurt pretty bad. I was glad it was just my azz he got. I told my young wife about it in the morning. She laughed and laughed. Then I showed her the marks on my azz.Strange but true.........................
Whadda ya make of that Dr. Einstein?
Bizarre?

 

[72bluNblu]

Sometimes I'm running for the joy of running. Sometimes the Air turns thick, and I can hardly get through it.
Sometimes I'm flying like Superman, enjoying the view. And then suddenly I get heavy and start to lose altitude. So I start to flap my arms to climb, but it's so hard and I can barely stay above the trees.
This one time I was trying to get away from a big ol' lion, but he was faster than me, and he bit me on my tender skinny azz( I was a lil younger then). I immediately woke up. And immediately felt my sore cheek. It hurt pretty bad. I was glad it was just my azz he got. I told my young wife about it in the morning. She laughed and laughed. Then I showed her the marks on my azz.Strange but true.........................
Whadda ya make of that Dr. Einstein?
Bizarre?

That you needed to talk to your young wife about boundaries because you sleep really hard? Or that you sleepwalk, I dunno.

Seriously, you said bazaar when you meant bizarre and I got a nice mental image of a bazaar and thought it was funny, that's all.

Bazaar!

 

[TrailBeast]

Sometimes I'm running for the joy of running. Sometimes the Air turns thick, and I can hardly get through it.
Sometimes I'm flying like Superman, enjoying the view. And then suddenly I get heavy and start to lose altitude. So I start to flap my arms to climb, but it's so hard and I can barely stay above the trees.
This one time I was trying to get away from a big ol' lion, but he was faster than me, and he bit me on my tender skinny azz( I was a lil younger then). I immediately woke up. And immediately felt my sore cheek. It hurt pretty bad. I was glad it was just my azz he got. I told my young wife about it in the morning. She laughed and laughed. Then I showed her the marks on my azz.Strange but true.........................
Whadda ya make of that Dr. Einstein?
Bizarre?

I have very similar dreams of flying and I used to loose altitude, but found that more concentration on ridding myself of all doubt would give me more lift.
When the flying dreams started I only went straight up and then straight back down, and it always happened during a hop over a small fence or other object.
I would probably hit 60 mph straight up and I would get up to where things under me were so small I could barely make out detail.
Then I would start slowing down gradually to a stop and start back down feet first until I was really moving and starting to get kinda freaked out about the ground coming up.
Right before I would get to the ground I would gradually but quickly slow down and land exactly where and how hard I would have landed if I had just normally hopped over whatever it was.

Some years later I decided next time it happened I was just going to stretch out and go without any question of being able to do it, and I did.
Since then I have been in places and back that I really wonder if they exist, and I always complete the journey (I never wake up before I come back and land)
In some dreams I hop back and forth across a river or small lake, or canyon from one pre selected rock or log to another on the other side just for the practice, but something odd is that I can't even take off if someone is touching me.
To distracting for the concentration required for controlled flight, and in some of the dreams I'm annoyed because some bystander wants to talk about what I am doing and won't leave me alone so I can keep doing it.

Analyze that.

 

[AJ/FormS]

You just like to get high!
And people hold you back from achieving your goals.


I knew bazaar looked wrong but was too lazy to look it up. I mighta caught it at a later edit. Now I have to leave it so a future reader will not get confuzzed