In their infinite wisdom....

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4spdragtop

4spdragtop

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Craftsman decided to have the 4 motor mount bolts installed from the bottom...:mob:
So after hours of wrestling it from underneath I said f**k it and removed the auger....I could only access 1 bolt(barely) from underneath due to linkages and the damn frame:icon_fU:
Once auger was removed, I was now able to lift the engine up an inch, get a wrench in there and snug all 4 bolts up!
F**kin lunacy with this was ridiculous.
The 4 bolts had loosened up and I had snuggled them up top with visegrips, but needed to do it "properly" as they had loosened up again.
I will get 4 3/8" jam nuts to help keep those pricks from loosening up....I put a nut on top of one to show what I mean...see to the left of oil drain.
Fn jackwagons...:elmer:

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They pay engineers to figure out how to make things hard to work on.

They want people back in the store buying another one when they break down.
 
"Never again." (Craftsman) Well of course now I'm old, it won't be many years til I'm unable to operate a blower anyhow, and Sears is basically "done."

I once had a Craftsman blower which EXACTLY matches the specs of the "what I now have" old beater Ariens.........both same width, same HP, both self propelled. The Craftsman had a TINY blower chute, and I spent more time unplugging the thing than I did USING the thing. NOT EVER again. I paid for that lesson!!!!

This, at one time, years ago, was "the fleet." The ill fated Craftsman is the green one, 8hp, 24". The big Ariens I no longer have, it beat me to death. 10hp, 32". I now have an ST8-24, 8hp, 24" same as the Craftsman. IT WORKS 10X BETTER than that Craftsman--which had had very little use, ever worked, anytime.

By the way, those single stage blowers like on this garden tractor--take a TREMENDOUS amount of HP to be effective. I think that tractor was ?16? hp?

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Below, when I brought the Sears SS-16 home in '09. This was the year I had the bleeding stomach, and was severely anemic all that winter and much of the coming summer. I was completely exhausted by the time I got this thing home, and did not unload it that night
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George Jets said:
They pay engineers to figure out how to make things hard to work on.

They want people back in the store buying another one when they break down.
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That is the paranoid person's opinion.
In reality, they likely design stuff so that it is faster to assemble. Why would they care about any difficulties there may be for disassembly or service? They SELL a product and to make a bigger profit, they have to build it fast.
The same applies to the issue of headers in a classic Mopar. You think the engineers designed the cars so you'd be more likely to take the car to a dealer? No. They designed the cars to be durable, safe, fast to assemble and that is all. If any service is easy to perform, it is purely accidental.
 
Kern Dog said:
That is the paranoid person's opinion.
In reality, they likely design stuff so that it is faster to assemble. Why would they care about any difficulties there may be for disassembly or service? They SELL a product and to make a bigger profit, they have to build it fast.
The same applies to the issue of headers in a classic Mopar. You think the engineers designed the cars so you'd be more likely to take the car to a dealer? No. They designed the cars to be durable, safe, fast to assemble and that is all. If any service is easy to perform, it is purely accidental.
Click to expand...
REALLY ??? THEY DESIGNED THEM TO BE DURABLE?????

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111
 
I havent had to do "a lot" to it and its approx 10-12 years old. I bought it from Dad when he got his riding mower. Has left and right brakes for turning. Reverse. 9.5 hp 27". Replaced a brake cable and carb that's about it.
One of the other design flaws in my opinion is the cables.....they have "loops" in them where the moisture settles and freezes so its difficult to change aim and angle on chute, or running brakes....
Oh speaking of "brakes", should these have a little grease on the gears? Manual doesn't say squat about it for maintenance.
1st pic drive gear engaged, 2nd pic disengaged(to help turning)
Grease??

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4spdragtop said:
Craftsman decided to have the 4 motor mount bolts installed from the bottom...:mob:
So after hours of wrestling it from underneath I said f**k it and removed the auger....I could only access 1 bolt(barely) from underneath due to linkages and the damn frame:icon_fU:
Once auger was removed, I was now able to lift the engine up an inch, get a wrench in there and snug all 4 bolts up!
F**kin lunacy with this was ridiculous.
The 4 bolts had loosened up and I had snuggled them up top with visegrips, but needed to do it "properly" as they had loosened up again.
I will get 4 3/8" jam nuts to help keep those pricks from loosening up....I put a nut on top of one to show what I mean...see to the left of oil drain.
Fn jackwagons...:elmer:

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Oh the joys of living in our Northern Climate Steve!!
I feel your pain! Decided to buy a Honda 724S . Small but very maneuverable and it is bulletproof!
 
George Jets said:
They pay engineers to figure out how to make things hard to work on.

They want people back in the store buying another one when they break down.
Click to expand...
When I worked at a Caterpillar dealer there was a few things difficult to get at. Of course the the factory the chassis is together before the cab and say loader frames get installed. One of the mechanics used to say "it must have taken the engineers years to design this so it could be put together but not taken apart.
I figure some autos have to have the rear axle removed to gain access to the front brakes.
 
LOL, I agree. I worked at Toromont Cat. Were you at Finning?
Dale Davies said:
When I worked at a Caterpillar dealer there was a few things difficult to get at. Of course the the factory the chassis is together before the cab and say loader frames get installed. One of the mechanics used to say "it must have taken the engineers years to design this so it could be put together but not taken apart.
I figure some autos have to have the rear axle removed to gain access to the front brakes.
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Speaking as an engineer: we don't design to make it hard to work on, we design it to be as cheap as the boss wants so that we can keep our bloated salary.

Bolting an engine to sheet metal? I'd prefer to put weld or clinch nuts into the sheet metal - or even weld a bracket on so that the motor mount bolts screw into the base rather than into the engine.
For 1, if you strip threads in the engine case the engine is trash - expensive replacement. For 2 - more durable connection.
In reality, it never goes that way. Good welders cost a fortune, and tapping a hole is one of the more expensive operations. A big sheet metal part with weld nuts? Forget it - would add $15 to the assembly once you account for the scrap rate because the minimum wage worker doesn't give two ***** about a proper install, and the higher waged guy is 'too good' to install weld nuts and so does it at 1/4 speed. So instead we fire the welder and just punch holes and tap the engine case - because the engine case is likely in a mill already, and the 'cost' to tap it a tool change and 2 mins of machine work and the robot is never 'too good' for his job. About $2 to tap those holes, Last I checked $2 < $15, so it's a no-brainer. (all $ figures are made-up and exaggerated, but you get the gist).

Most people these days don't even own a wrench, let alone a socket set. Why would I care to make it easy to work on? For the 1 out of 100 that have a clue - sucks to be you! But the assumption usually goes that if you can fix it, you will likely improve it and make it easier to repair next time - but I'm not going to give up 20% market share due to a $60 higher price as a result of 'better' construction no one actually cares about. Karen is just going to buy the one at the top of the list sorted by "price low-high" anyway.

Those engine mount bolts should have probably been hit with a thread locking compound. But if you've priced 'patched' screws in the past 5 years, you'd find they're stupidly priced because the patching companies know they have you by the short-hairs. It also plays hell with automated assembly equipment, since snugging torque and final torque wind up very close to one another. Liquid thread lockers are a *****. Either the assembly smears goop all over everything, and spends $200 per shift in thread locker, or they don't apply enough and things fall apart anyway. Teaching a robot to "squeeze a little bit, no not that much" is also too hard for the snot nosed nerds to figure out - so we just tap holes in aluminum slightly undersize and hope they stay together. Need to remove a bolt? Well, it won't stay tight the second time! Thread locker time.

Oh, and freight costs a goddamn fortune. So it's not going to ship it fully assembled. No, it will ship boxed within it's own parts to save on packing materials and then they let the blue haired freak that couldn't pass his drug test put it together in the back warehouse with stamped-out wrenches that will never reach the proper torque for those bolts. That freak can't change a tire, but they're good enough to trust with assembling equipment that could maim you if assembled wrong. But that's why they have insurance - to ensure the retailer gets paid if you get hurt, but don't expect help with your recuperation.

I could go on for ages... if you want equipment made to be worked on, buy commercial grade stuff but be prepared to pay through the nose for it. If you're running a business with it, the higher costs are a no-brainer. If you're just clearing your driveway a half dozen times a year? Be prepared to spend a couple days every year re-fixing it. Oh, and don't buy craftsman LOL. Their engineers design stuff to look like tools - none of them actually work in my experience. So far, I've had the best luck with stuff from Honda. Even if the equipment is so-so, their engines just run and run and run. Even if the power rating is low, they out-work all the other junk 10x.
 
Engineered to fail, as AVE says.
Take a 30 or 40 year old mastercraft or craftsman and put it up against a new identical model. No comparison. ***-backwards. Years of development and new technology all this stuff should be better.all part of our disposable society….
 
Gotta remember, Sears and Craftsman doesn't make a single thing.

Their snow blowers are made by MTD and I've always thought the MTD stuff was kind of bottom of the barrel. Stanley/Black & Decker now owns them, so I don't expect any improvement and I'm sure more of it to be made offshore.
 
Big_John said:
Gotta remember, Sears and Craftsman doesn't make a single thing.

Their snow blowers are made by MTD and I've always thought the MTD stuff was kind of bottom of the barrel. Stanley/Black & Decker now owns them, so I don't expect any improvement and I'm sure more of it to be made offshore.
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It's all made to a price point. They could buy better, they don't. The requirements when specifying what they want don't include "works". It just has to look like a tool and be cheaper than the competition because most Americans buy based on price.
 
1157 vs 3157
No brass, no soldering and a chunk of plastic. Way simpler to manufacture, and a damn sight easier to install on assembly line. Why is it double the money?
 
It makes more sense than snap fit plastic that you cannot remove without breaking it. You know those arrow heads pushing into a hole and then they cannot back out? Argh! Yeah they go together with a bump of the assemblers hand but try getting behind that to make a repair...nope, it'll either break or the tabs will break. Either way it's not going back on as designed.
 
I enjoyed the comments phreakish made about design. There are damn few manufacturer's any more that really care about quality. It seems their main drivers are price point and if it can make it out of warranty. But who is to blame? The American consumer. Case in point, Saylor-Beall is probably the best air compressor made. When was the last time you saw one? Why? Because it isn't even close to the chinesium varieties in cost. Second case in point, I'm at NAPA and a guy is buying an oil filter. Counterman says they have two qualities, which does he want? Asks how much price difference. Answer: about 1$. He say's he'll take the cheaper one. A car costing thousands of dollars and he wouldn't spend $1 more for a better filter. We are our own worst enemy.
 
6PakBee said:
I enjoyed the comments phreakish made about design. There are damn few manufacturer's any more that really care about quality. It seems their main drivers are price point and if it can make it out of warranty. But who is to blame? The American consumer. Case in point, Saylor-Beall is probably the best air compressor made. When was the last time you saw one? Why? Because it isn't even close to the chinesium varieties in cost. Second case in point, I'm at NAPA and a guy is buying an oil filter. Counterman says they have two qualities, which does he want? Asks how much price difference. Answer: about 1$. He say's he'll take the cheaper one. A car costing thousands of dollars and he wouldn't spend $1 more for a better filter. We are our own worst enemy.
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I bought a brand new Quincy four cylinder, two stage compressor a year and a half ago. I could have spent more, but this was in my budget, barely. It should outlive me...
 
6PakBee said:
I enjoyed the comments phreakish made about design. There are damn few manufacturer's any more that really care about quality. It seems their main drivers are price point and if it can make it out of warranty. But who is to blame? The American consumer. Case in point, Saylor-Beall is probably the best air compressor made. When was the last time you saw one? Why? Because it isn't even close to the chinesium varieties in cost. Second case in point, I'm at NAPA and a guy is buying an oil filter. Counterman says they have two qualities, which does he want? Asks how much price difference. Answer: about 1$. He say's he'll take the cheaper one. A car costing thousands of dollars and he wouldn't spend $1 more for a better filter. We are our own worst enemy.
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No mfg cares about warranty. It's just another peice of advertising.
If you ever try to invoke it, you'll have to pay shipping or restocking or some sort of fee that will be 2/3 the replacement cost.
Or they just won't honor it and will weasel out based on any number of exclusions.
This is partly because cheapskates will run trash oil filters or junk oil to save $10, and then figure "warranty will replace it", and so abuses like that become prevalent enough that manufacturers just say "to ehll with our customers, they're morons" and partly because it's just cheaper to say "no".

You nailed it though - people will always go with the cheaper option and feel like they got a deal - anyone making higher quality will only ever get about 10% of the market if they're not super competitive on price.
 
Phreakish said:
No mfg cares about warranty. It's just another peice of advertising.
If you ever try to invoke it, you'll have to pay shipping or restocking or some sort of fee that will be 2/3 the replacement cost.
Or they just won't honor it and will weasel out based on any number of exclusions.
This is partly because cheapskates will run trash oil filters or junk oil to save $10, and then figure "warranty will replace it", and so abuses like that become prevalent enough that manufacturers just say "to ehll with our customers, they're morons" and partly because it's just cheaper to say "no".

You nailed it though - people will always go with the cheaper option and feel like they got a deal - anyone making higher quality will only ever get about 10% of the market if they're not super competitive on price.
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I knew a guy associated with Gopher when it was in business. We were discussing parts quality and he laughed that a Gopher rebuild was junk but a rebuilt Gopher was a pretty good motor. What?? He said that the quality of parts like bearings, rings, valve train parts, etc. that Gopher used were middle to lower quality. Other than fitting, all Gopher cared about was how much the part cost and if it could make it through warranty. The machining though was first rate. His take was you get a Gopher rebuild, disassemble it, throw all of the bearings, rings, lifters, camshaft, camshaft, etc. away and reassemble it with quality parts....you've now got a good motor. Take it for what it is worth.
 
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