Is it ok to copy a W5 head and make it better or are we just mad at Speedmaster

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pittsburghracer

pittsburghracer

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A few months ago a well known small block head porter asked if anyone had a W5 head he could play with. Plan are to copy the W5 head and make some improvements. One of our members loaned him one and the project has began. Since I’m sure “Mother Mopar” had a patient on this what are our thoughts on this??? Everyone I’ve heard from has been excited about this deal but listening to so of our members over the last week have me scratching my head. Is it ok for one and not the other???
 
pittsburghracer said:
A few months ago a well known small block head porter asked if anyone had a W5 head he could play with. Plan are to copy the W5 head and make some improvements. One of our members loaned him one and the project has began. Since I’m sure “Mother Mopar” had a patient on this what are our thoughts on this??? Everyone I’ve heard from has been excited about this deal but listening to so of our members over the last week have me scratching my head. Is it ok for one and not the other???
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It is my laymans understanding of copyright and patent law is that you cannot make an exact duplicate of something and sell it, or even give it away for free.

You can produce a similar product with some differences and sell it. Just because it performs the same function and is interchangeable, does not mean it is a patent violation. An improved cylinder head would not be a violation. An exact copy would be. Or a copy that carries a tradmark or design feature (think of the chrysler pentastar) would be violation even if it has other differences from the original.

Photocopied written material such as service manuals, wiring diagrams, templates etc, would be an exact copy and therefore a violation of copyright laws.

This is my understanding of the legal issues. The ethical and moral aspects of profiting from somebody elses' work is an issue that only each of us can decide for themselves. However America's success is largely founded on someone always finding a way to improve upon a previous product or process. "Build a better mousetrap and the world will beat a path to your door" is how the phrase goes.

In a nutshell, I think most people would say make improvements are good and fair game, making copies is stealing.
 
Are we talking about the same Speedmaster company that did this? Clear-cut I think.................................

 
FWIW, I doubt they would have had a patent and if they did, they normally only have a 20 year lifespan and only in the countries where they were originally registered. More likely that they were subject to a Registered Design which precludes making an exact copy but does not limit improvements, changes & refinement. Regardless, patents are meant to be rendered obsolete by new innovation (which btw is something the Chinese are not at all good at)! Just wanted to highlight some of the finer points of intellectual property (IP) management and certainly with no intent to make life easier for those that copy and cheat to undermine innovative design and engineering!
 
I don’t even think it was so much speedmaster as it was etching the name on the copy like the original was.
After seeing different posts on Facebook about it, I finally watched the video by the trans brake guy and agreed with him 100%.

Personally, I would rather see somebody offer another block alternative, something like an X block type of deal than another head. At this point there seems to already be plenty of options out there.
But very little options regards blocks.
 
B3422w5 said:
I don’t even think it was so much speedmaster as it was etching the name on the copy like the original was.
After seeing different posts on Facebook about it, I finally watched the video by the trans brake guy and agreed with him 100%.
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Ya but it goes deeper than that for some. They are anti Chinese but don’t realize how many of these products are in our everyday lives. I would love walking through their shop.
 
It's not even close to the same situation. There's no current source for a w5 type head and the original supply is flawed and was a low volume offering. Making a "copy" isn't going to impact anyone.
Cheap copies of legit parts that are still being made are an entirely different matter.
Speedmaster is garbage, always has been, even under their previous incarnations/names.
 
I recently saw a new casting from "Steven Sun" on Speier's site and he really gave it a very good review as he is using them for his Chevy program thru Chris Cobb. I have heard that Steven Sun is one of the best China castings and maybe the only one to use.
 
pittsburghracer said:
A few months ago a well known small block head porter asked if anyone had a W5 head he could play with. Plan are to copy the W5 head and make some improvements. One of our members loaned him one and the project has began. Since I’m sure “Mother Mopar” had a patient on this what are our thoughts on this??? Everyone I’ve heard from has been excited about this deal but listening to so of our members over the last week have me scratching my head. Is it ok for one and not the other???
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Just make sure you leave the W2 and Mopar logo off the casting. That can get you in trouble. :poke: :poke: :rofl::rofl::rofl:
 
pittsburghracer said:
Ya but it goes deeper than that for some. They are anti Chinese but don’t realize how many of these products are in our everyday lives. I would love walking through their shop.
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I believe your statement is 100000% correct! Probably not many would care to admit they have more issue with who did it, rather than the fact it was done.
 
B3422w5 said:
Our politicians sold us down the road quite a long time ago regards China.
Now that the boogeyman is already in the kitchen, it’s hard to get him out, unfortunately.
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And we aren't going down that road here.
 
Well... if these "Chinese" heads make a return, they'll cost double or triple what they were...you can bet on that...:)
 
pittsburghracer said:
A few months ago a well known small block head porter asked if anyone had a W5 head he could play with. Plan are to copy the W5 head and make some improvements. One of our members loaned him one and the project has began. Since I’m sure “Mother Mopar” had a patient on this what are our thoughts on this??? Everyone I’ve heard from has been excited about this deal but listening to so of our members over the last week have me scratching my head. Is it ok for one and not the other???
Click to expand...

This is how I feel about it.

If the person asking was an American, it would be awesome if all the work was done here. Copying the head with improvements in areas is fine up to this point in my head.

The head shouldn’t look like a blatant off.
 
B3422w5 said:
I don’t even think it was so much speedmaster as it was etching the name on the copy like the original was.
After seeing different posts on Facebook about it, I finally watched the video by the trans brake guy and agreed with him 100%.

Personally, I would rather see somebody offer another block alternative, something like an X block type of deal than another head. At this point there seems to already be plenty of options out there.
But very little options regards blocks.
Click to expand...

Like the Ritter blocks.

EdsWelding said:
I recently saw a new casting from "Steven Sun" on Speier's site and he really gave it a very good review as he is using them for his Chevy program thru Chris Cobb. I have heard that Steven Sun is one of the best China castings and maybe the only one to use.
Click to expand...

A quality casting from China or anywhere would be nice but garbage is let in. That’s the biggest hurt behind the blatant rip off.
If the chinks went out of there way just a little bit and had forgone the exact copying of the outside, no one would be upset. Everyone would just be saying there trying to get into the market.
 
rumblefish360 said:
Like the Ritter blocks.



A quality casting from China or anywhere would be nice but garbage is let in. That’s the biggest hurt behind the blatant rip off.
If the chinks went out of there way just a little bit and had forgone the exact copying of the outside, no one would be upset. Everyone would just be saying there trying to get into the market.
Click to expand...

Well aware of the Ritter blocks. Which is why I said I wish there were MORE options.
To my knowledge, that is the only option currently.
There are tons of head options, basically one block option.
 
It’s all about money. This is the same thing with all the “Knock off” items. The “fakes” are doing damages to the company that sold them in the first place.

Singer is being sued by Porsche right now because the copy is too similar to the original, and is hurting the Porsche sales.
 
I think W2's would be a hot ticket. What makes a W2 a W2 though? What do they say, you have to change 5 things to reapply for a patent?
 
I personally don’t have a problem with China, or any other country manufacturing and selling products in the United States, as long as they don’t identify as the original manufacturer.

Look at Engine Quest for example selling Magnum heads.
They are very close to the original Magnum head, but they don’t advertise as or say anything about Chrysler on them.

I’m not pissed at China on the subject of the trans brake valve bodies, as I know how China rolls, and I know that Speed Master sells cheap junk copies.
As a buyer I can decide if I want to give my money to a possibly inferior copy.
Some copies are great products.

But as an example, if I went down to the gun store and bought a Smith and Wesson and it had Smith and Wesson name and logo on it I’d be pissed at the gun store if it was a Chinese copy.

Hence, F Speed Master.
 
Can we go around and remove any YT videos posted of Speedmaster and get the content creator to pay back any revenue made off said video? like how far is this going to go ...? :)
 
My opinion is a Chinese product should only be bought as a last resort. So if you can source a part or tool domestically, new, used, NOS, NORS or even refurbished, you should do so before buying Chinese. Hell buy Mexican or Peruvian before Chinese.

I think too many people give the Chinese products a free pass because they're cheap.
 
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