Is this dumb or brilliant? You decide.

[VonCramp]

Okay. Either I have saggiest super stock springs around or they are just too long. Being the intelligent non-chassis fabricating person that I am, I have concocted an idea. So, try not to mock or laugh too hard. I am thinking I can relocate the spring mount at the rear from its stock location to the underside of the same area. This will prevent the leaf eye from forcing the shackle backwards as it tries to extend, also providing a little more lift I need for slightly bigger tires. Any thoughts? I can't afford to invest in another set of springs at this point. I already apparently got ripped off at the swap meet when I bought these. Or... is there another explanation for the crazy spring flattening out and backwards shackle travel? I know these questions are ridiculous to seasoned veterans of Mopars. This is only my second Mopar and first complete assembly from Ma Mopar. I am used to Chevies where everything interchanges and cost about $50.00. I am a diehard Mopar guy now. So, have some mercy before answering. Sorry, but pic came out sideways.

 

[72bluNblu]

Dumb, and here's why.

All mopar super stock springs are the same length. 56". Front segment 20", rear 36". That's true of the "A-body" springs, true of the "B-body" springs. That's why Mopar specs them by vehicle weight and not body style, and why you need longer front hangers to run them on a E/B body. SS hangers for E/B bodies are 2" longer to make up the difference (#P4120079). I ran SS springs on my Challenger for a bit, the longer hangers are required for E/B bodies.

The same pair of SS springs from my Challenger is currently holding up my Dart in the shop (temporarily), its a straight swap.

The problem is that the springs are too stiff because they're for a heavier car, and that's why you're not hooking. Moving the shackle mount will let the suspension travel a little more, but it's not going to solve your problem.

What part number is on the springs anyway?

 

[VonCramp]

Dumb, and here's why.

All mopar super stock springs are the same length. 56". Front segment 20", rear 36". That's true of the "A-body" springs, true of the "B-body" springs. That's why Mopar specs them by vehicle weight and not body style, and why you need longer front hangers to run them on a E/B body. SS hangers for E/B bodies are 2" longer to make up the difference (#P4120079). I ran SS springs on my Challenger for a bit, the longer hangers are required for E/B bodies.

The same pair of SS springs from my Challenger is currently holding up my Dart in the shop (temporarily), its a straight swap.

The problem is that the springs are too stiff because they're for a heavier car, and that's why you're not hooking. Moving the shackle mount will let the suspension travel a little more, but it's not going to solve your problem.

What part number is on the springs anyway?

I get what you are saying, but I do not understand why the spring is pushing the shackle backwards towards the rear of the car. They have also flattened out in the rear. I do not see the rear of these cars being hundreds of pounds different in weight causing the spring to reverse sag. For instance, a Challenger couldn't be 400 or 500 pounds heavier in the back than an A-body. I do not doubt what you're saying or your knowledge of these cars. Something just isn't adding up. I do know that when I jack the car up and the leaf springs are allowed to hang, they return to the arched position and the shackle moves back forward. That is all I know.

 

[OldmanRick]

I'll comment on the shackle angle... It doesn't look too bad to me.

Are you sure you bought real SS springs?


I'll use round figures here, but 15/20 degrees to the rear at rest, and 10 degrees forward at full extension, is not bad in my opinion. I think the spring itself is the issue, not the length?

 

[VonCramp]

I'll comment on the shackle angle... It doesn't look to bad to me.

Are you sure you bought real SS springs?

Well, the springs have different amounts of leafs in them on either side. They also came with the pinion adjuster wedges. Other than that, not really sure. I do know that before I installed them they were more arched than my stock springs. Of course age could be the factor in that.

 

[OldmanRick]

See my last edit on post #4. Any thoughts on that?

 

[72bluNblu]

The 002/003 SS springs typically used on A-bodies are for a 3200 lb car. And while the Challenger really doesn't weigh a lot more than that, you don't know if you have SS springs for a 3,400 lb car, a 3,600 lb car, or a 3,800 lb car. They make them in all of those specifications. And of course, what that doesn't tell you is the actual spring rate and how much that changes.

Rick brings up a good point too, they could just be worn out an in need of a re-arch. The fact that they arch that much with weight off of them hints at that, especially if they're one of the heavier springs.

Are there any numbers visible on the springs? How many leafs are there on each side?

 

[VonCramp]

See my last edit on post #4. Any thoughts on that?

The shackles are bottomed out against the mounting location. So the degrees are illrelevant at this point. I agree. There is an issue with the springs. I am trying to determine if they are worn out, the wrong ones, or mounted incorrectly. All I can say is when weight is put on the springs they travel backwards until the shackles back up against the mount. Hope this helps. I sure am lost.

 

[VonCramp]

[Q'UOTE= y72bluNblu;1970691477]The 002/003 SS springs typically used on A-bodies are for a 3200 lb car. And while the Challenger really doesn't weigh a lot more than that, you don't know if you have SS springs for a 3,400 lb car, a 3,600 lb car, or a 3,800 lb car. They make them in all of those specifications. And of course, what that doesn't tell you is the actual spring rate and how much that changes.

Rick brings up a good point too, they could just be worn out an in need of a re-arch. The fact that they arch that much with weight off of them hints at that, especially if they're one of the heavier springs.

Are there any numbers visible on the springs? How many leafs are there on each side?[/QUOTE] I will count them tomorrow to get a number for you. They don't appear to be too old but what you are saying makes a lot of sense. How do I get them rearched? Thank y'all for replying and helping me.

 

[72bluNblu]

Ok, you made me curious.

So, I went out and took a look at my SS springs. I was running the 460/461 SS springs, which are for a 3600 lb car. Yikes. Not sure what I was thinking, my Challenger isn't that heavy. Anyway, my Challenger rode like a truck with those on it, but I couldn't bear to toss them completely so I'm using them as placeholders on my '71 Dart.

Now, my Dart is currently without engine or transmission. Everything else is still on the car, the front is on jackstands (so there's more weight on the rear) and there's a set of slot mags in the trunk just for good measure. This is what my shackles look like. Not quite vertical, but still plenty of room to move.

 

[OldmanRick]

Great pics Blu.

I have to think if his rear mounts are bottomed out to the back, that those springs are really flat with some weight on them? I do understand the budget issue, believe me . The only thing I could recommend at this point is don't do any mounting mods until you have a "known" spring to install.

 

[moper]

I was going to say to Van - are they in the B/E front spring hangers? It looks like ot's pushed back a couple inches assuming the springs are ok. I typically de-arch the SS springs. It costs about $100 for a spring shop, but it looks like those need more arch to reach the position 72s are in. That's how they should look at rest.

 

[VonCramp]

Ok, you made me curious.

So, I went out and took a look at my SS springs. I was running the 460/461 SS springs, which are for a 3600 lb car. Yikes. Not sure what I was thinking, my Challenger isn't that heavy. Anyway, my Challenger rode like a truck with those on it, but I couldn't bear to toss them completely so I'm using them as placeholders on my '71 Dart.

Now, my Dart is currently without engine or transmission. Everything else is still on the car, the front is on jackstands (so there's more weight on the rear) and there's a set of slot mags in the trunk just for good measure. This is what my shackles look like. Not quite vertical, but still plenty of room to move.

Yes. Yours are definitely are more vertical than mine. Anyone ever took heat to them while hanging in the air and then let them cool? I know back in the day that was done in reverse as a poor - man's lowering kit.

 

[72bluNblu]

Yes. Yours are definitely are more vertical than mine. Anyone ever took heat to them while hanging in the air and then let them cool? I know back in the day that was done in reverse as a poor - man's lowering kit.

Heating the springs like that isn't likely to help your cause. It's a horrible way to lower a car, and unlikely to have any better results trying to re-arch them. You'd be more likely to stretch something and make your problem even worse.

And at this point, we don't even know if the springs really are the right length. There should be a part# stamped into the bottom leaf on each side, at least there should be if they're relatively new SS springs as claimed. See if you can find that, so we know you aren't dealing with stock or XHD B body springs, which would be 2" too long.

Part # should look something like this, the # is on the back side of the driver's spring and the front of the passenger spring. Sorry, this one's a little blurry, but you get the idea...

 

[VonCramp]

Here is my pic of the super stock springs on driver's side. If I remember correctly, I counted six springs on that side. Didn't count passenger side. Spring length is 56". I give up on getting the pics to end up in the right direction.

 

[VonCramp]

Here is my pic of the super stock springs on driver's side. If I remember correctly, I counted six springs on that side. Didn't count passenger side. Well, I rotated it 180*. This is how the site uploaded it. Sorry, but I tried. At least the pic is bigger.

 

[Rocket]

Your angle looks good to me. My Dart was the same and worked well - 1.45 to 1.50 60 foot times with long shocks. See attached page out of the Mopar chassis manual and shot from back of my car. Rearward is preferred position to allow suspension movement.

 

[VonCramp]

Your angle looks good to me. My Dart was the same and worked well - 1.45 to 1.50 60 foot times with long shocks. See attached page out of the Mopar chassis manual and shot from back of my car. Rearward is preferred position to allow suspension movement.

Maybe my issue is stock shocks? The shackles are pushed up against the frame. That can't be right.

 

[4spdragtop]

As much as I hate to say it can you post another pic? Back a little so you can see the entire leaf set. Lets hope they land tits up this time...LOL

 

[RustyRatRod]

All mopar super stock springs are the same length. 56". Front segment 20", rear 36".

Nevermind.

 

[1968FormulaS340]

Springs look shot to me.

 

[VonCramp]

Nevermind.

I don't get the "nevermind" reply. My springs are 56".

 

[IQ52]

You bought what are supposed to be super stock springs at a swap meet and they don't work. Imagine! Now you are thinking about cutting up the car to force the swap meet springs to function properly. Maybe you should reconsider.

 

[VonCramp]

You bought what are supposed to be super stock springs at a swap meet and they don't work. Imagine! Now you are thinking about cutting up the car to force the swap meet springs to function properly. Maybe you should reconsider.

Hence, the point of me asking for y'all 's advice and opinions. That's the point of this thread. I don't know what the issue of the springs is. I wanted to see if someone had experienced the same thing as me. I don't know if they are worn out, the wrong ones or what.

 

[Two7T3Dart]

I think it was asked, but I didn't see an answer....Are you sure you have the correct short front hangers on the car ?....(not the longer B/E body ones)