Here's a photo to clear up all the confusion. tmm
It didnt go as planned, new motor break in.
- Thread starter PhillH
- Start date
-
Bulldozer
free ice cream sandwiches
all big block A/C cars with power steering use a short filter
xLURKxDOGx
"An angel fat, at satan's feast"
Not to sabotage this thread but does anyone know if a short filter will work instead of the 90 degree on an early a body with TTI headers?
Jake
Jake
j par
Well-hung Member
I had the same problem with my 318 and that darn 90○ #! $/&*@. Oil everywhere !!! I've got rid of that thing with my new stroker motor and bought the $35 Mr Gasket oil filter relocator. for some reason I still like my walmart 090 Mopar shorty oil filter I believe is made by Purolator actually. And to avoid the overheating problem I just gutted the thermostat and no heating or burping issues to date.
R0K3_B3aRd
Man with a Master plan.
Did you clean everything before putting back together? might have missed a gasket or something. Check fuel lines and water pump gaskets. basically if your having those problems i would rip it apart and reassemble it all over just to make sure you didn't miss anything. I know you portably got excited and rushed into it but patience is virtue.
No worries.
Mine 318 break in went as follows:
started runned real bad... then stopped, looked at carb, bowls were empthy, found pinkie size hole on my only rubber part of my fuel line, fixed it, filled carb up started again AND....
Same thin runned same 10 seconds and stopped.... Found out that my fuel pump was bad.. changed that.
Finally starts and runs but really badly.....
After two hours i figured i had put neutral safety switch wrong way and sift linkage was binding, so i have been trying to start car reverse on
DUM DUM ME.
After that car runs really smooth and break in went well, now engine has 5000 miles behind and still runs really well
OH and before all that i had to pull out of my starter and repair that... AND i have big old starter and cheap headders.... least now i have mini starter...
Least my 90 degree adapter didnt leak
Mine 318 break in went as follows:
started runned real bad... then stopped, looked at carb, bowls were empthy, found pinkie size hole on my only rubber part of my fuel line, fixed it, filled carb up started again AND....
Same thin runned same 10 seconds and stopped.... Found out that my fuel pump was bad.. changed that.
Finally starts and runs but really badly.....
After two hours i figured i had put neutral safety switch wrong way and sift linkage was binding, so i have been trying to start car reverse on
DUM DUM ME.After that car runs really smooth and break in went well, now engine has 5000 miles behind and still runs really well
OH and before all that i had to pull out of my starter and repair that... AND i have big old starter and cheap headders.... least now i have mini starter...
Least my 90 degree adapter didnt leak
PhillH
Well-Known Member
There are no old gaskets on this block, I make sure it was squeaky clean even before the machinist got it. definitely do not have the proper gaskets in the adapter. It looks to me like there is room for the filter I have without the adapter on, I'll pull it tonight and see if it fits without it.
Dartswinger70
Well-Known Member
Don't get too upset. These kind of things are normal with any car build, not just Mopar. I have found it is never as easy as build it, install it, drive it down the road. there is always some "tweaking" and fine tuning. There are always problems to be solved. I don't know what year your car is, but keep in mind that when these cars were new, they required more maintenance than say a nineties or newer car. So even when you get it smoothed out, there will always be something to wrench on. I have completely torn mine apart for body and paint and am expecting one thing after another when re assembling. The good thing is, it is apart, now is the time to fix things right once and for all no matter how long it takes. God luck, and don't get upset. take breaks from it when needed.
PhillH
Well-Known Member
Update... I removed the 90 adapter and installed the filter plate and guess what, the filter has plenty of room! Absolutely not necessary with my headers. That could've saved me a big headache, now I have to pressure wash the driveway. Tomorrow I'll run a new rubber fuel line and give it a go breaking the motor in again.
PhillH
Well-Known Member
It went much better this morning. No oil leaking so that it a huge benefit. I ran the new fuel line and got the break in completed, however the fuel in the glass filter is slowly running dry, I've got some junk clogging it at the line in the tank so it looks like I'll be pulling that to clean it out. I forgot to plug the vent line on the passenger fender and during the run-in it started spurting small amounts of fuel, does it seem like that would be normal? I plugged it.
When I change oil I usually lay a heavy rag on the header after it has cooled to the point it won't burn. It will dribble some when you pull the filter.
And please get rid of the glass fuel filter. Use a metal one.
And please get rid of the glass fuel filter. Use a metal one.
AJ/FormS
68 Formua-S fastback clone 367/A833/GVod/3.55s
- Joined
- Jan 19, 2014
- Messages
- 24,952
- Reaction score
- 12,303
Jpar
Eventually you will want to put the stat back in there.Here are some reasons;power, long life, economy.
Our gasoline engines are quite inefficient during the warm-up period, requiring quite a bit more fuel and timing.The warm-up period is known to be the time of the greatest cylinder wear.When they get up to highway speed, they tend to cool down and again become inefficient,again requiring more fuel and timing.The stat, or rather a good-working stat will get your engine up to temp in a jiffy, and keep it there, during all kinds of modes.Since we cant jack around too much with AFRs and timing as the engine temp would be ever-changing without a stat,(on these carb/dizzy cars), its best to get the temp up as fast as possible and keep it there. Then you can put the tune in for just one running temp.
Remembering that only about 1/3 of the fuel that the engine burns, goes to power, It would appear that the hotter she runs the more power she will produce. I cant say how hot is too hot, unless the oil gets to coking.(That would definitely be Too-Hot). Way smarter men than me have suggested that temps north of 230*/240* would be better.Unfortunately,parts/machining/etc for that caliber of engine, certainly arent in my budget
But I can say that my S has been running a 205* stat for many years, has quick warm-ups, excellent throttle response, good power for its combo, and gets about as good gas mileage as can be expected.
I think it would be safe to say: Too cool is not cool.
Eventually you will want to put the stat back in there.Here are some reasons;power, long life, economy.
Our gasoline engines are quite inefficient during the warm-up period, requiring quite a bit more fuel and timing.The warm-up period is known to be the time of the greatest cylinder wear.When they get up to highway speed, they tend to cool down and again become inefficient,again requiring more fuel and timing.The stat, or rather a good-working stat will get your engine up to temp in a jiffy, and keep it there, during all kinds of modes.Since we cant jack around too much with AFRs and timing as the engine temp would be ever-changing without a stat,(on these carb/dizzy cars), its best to get the temp up as fast as possible and keep it there. Then you can put the tune in for just one running temp.
Remembering that only about 1/3 of the fuel that the engine burns, goes to power, It would appear that the hotter she runs the more power she will produce. I cant say how hot is too hot, unless the oil gets to coking.(That would definitely be Too-Hot). Way smarter men than me have suggested that temps north of 230*/240* would be better.Unfortunately,parts/machining/etc for that caliber of engine, certainly arent in my budget
But I can say that my S has been running a 205* stat for many years, has quick warm-ups, excellent throttle response, good power for its combo, and gets about as good gas mileage as can be expected.
I think it would be safe to say: Too cool is not cool.
magnumdart
There is a bad moon on the rise.
AJ is exactly right. And for a quick warm up, after everything is good to go, pour in boiling water.
AJ/FormS
68 Formua-S fastback clone 367/A833/GVod/3.55s
- Joined
- Jan 19, 2014
- Messages
- 24,952
- Reaction score
- 12,303
PhillH
Spurting fuel cannot possibly be normal. no way, no how.
If you couple that with the filter running dry, it suggests a problem in the fuel system between the filter and the tank. The vent is supposed to allow air into the tank as fuel is being used up. It also lets VAPORS out as the vapor pressure rises in the tank due to fuel warming up, or at time of filling. Liquid fuel should not be coming out of a vent.
Now, a fuel-return line, thats another story.
As to the glass filter, get rid of it. It will be nothing but trouble, perhaps even to the point of causing the premature death of your project.And if its the one I think it is, its sized way wrong for anything but a stock slanty.
However in this case its telling you something. If that filter is on the suction side of the pump,its more than likely indicating air entering the line. It may be entering right at the filter itself, or more likely that little jumper hose back at the tank, under the trunk.If its on the pressure side of the pump, then it goes to air entering on the suction side of the pump only, and that takes us back to that little hose at the back; unless you have other rubber splices or the hard line itself is perforated.Ive seen steel lines perforated just enough to let air in, and seep not enough to puddle under the car, but enough so that you can just see fuel evaporating off the line at the hole.The pump will much rather pull air than fuel.. If you have an electric pusher pump at or near the tank, same story; air entering between it and the pick-up.
Best of luck finding it, and go after it with a vengeance. Gasoline absolutely loves to burn.
Spurting fuel cannot possibly be normal. no way, no how.
If you couple that with the filter running dry, it suggests a problem in the fuel system between the filter and the tank. The vent is supposed to allow air into the tank as fuel is being used up. It also lets VAPORS out as the vapor pressure rises in the tank due to fuel warming up, or at time of filling. Liquid fuel should not be coming out of a vent.
Now, a fuel-return line, thats another story.
As to the glass filter, get rid of it. It will be nothing but trouble, perhaps even to the point of causing the premature death of your project.And if its the one I think it is, its sized way wrong for anything but a stock slanty.
However in this case its telling you something. If that filter is on the suction side of the pump,its more than likely indicating air entering the line. It may be entering right at the filter itself, or more likely that little jumper hose back at the tank, under the trunk.If its on the pressure side of the pump, then it goes to air entering on the suction side of the pump only, and that takes us back to that little hose at the back; unless you have other rubber splices or the hard line itself is perforated.Ive seen steel lines perforated just enough to let air in, and seep not enough to puddle under the car, but enough so that you can just see fuel evaporating off the line at the hole.The pump will much rather pull air than fuel.. If you have an electric pusher pump at or near the tank, same story; air entering between it and the pick-up.
Best of luck finding it, and go after it with a vengeance. Gasoline absolutely loves to burn.
PhillH
Well-Known Member
I don't understand why a glass filter makes any difference? I just wanted one I could keep an eye on how much junk was in the tank, it's a Mr. Gasket. Look like I've got issues with the tank because I ran a brand new fuel line from the tank all the to the carb. I'm not even going to try to clean it as I need a new fuel level sender also, I might as well put in a whole new tank and new vent line, eliminate all possible problems. Thanks.
Well, it won't, until it breaks and spews gas all over a hot engine. Same with the plastic ones. I know lots of people in the past that ran them with no issues, but I also have seen the aftermath when one gives way.
Just not a risk I'm willing to take.
AJ/FormS
68 Formua-S fastback clone 367/A833/GVod/3.55s
- Joined
- Jan 19, 2014
- Messages
- 24,952
- Reaction score
- 12,303
And the only glass ones I have seen are a small cylinder, pinched between the metal ends which screw to eachother,and are sealed with flat rubber washers or o-rings. When the rubber parts age, they lose their tension and resiliency, and begin to seep, then leak. And with 4 to 7 psi of pump pressure in them,it doesnt take long for catastrophe to rear its ugly head. Come- on, your ride is worth more than that.And your life, or the lives of your loved ones are irreplaceable. Put a nice metal can on there and just replace it once in a while.
Now, I see youre in a hurry to replace parts.Ima thinking your pockets are deeper than mine.With just a bit of diagnostics,you may be able to save a substantial amount of money. Everybody likes to save money, dont they? Especially when to spend a dollar you have to earn more than 25% additional money to support the bureaucracy.Try and think of every expenditure in terms of time and sacrifice.How many hours will you have to work to be able to buy a new tank? And what will you have to sacrifice to get it?
Now Im not saying that you dont actually need a new tank.That may very well be. But a tank is not like toilet paper. its very obvious when toilet paper is no longer useful. A tank needs to be inspected. Then if condemned a replacement ordered or procured.
I know waiting is not for everyone, so if you can justify the dollars to hours versus inspection and restoration, in your circumstances, than my words mean nothing. However for me, the cost of a new tank and sending unit would have to be very carefully considered.The new steel fuel line, on the other hand, is almost a no-brainer.Good on that.
It is steel right?
As ever, just trying to be helpful.
Now, I see youre in a hurry to replace parts.Ima thinking your pockets are deeper than mine.With just a bit of diagnostics,you may be able to save a substantial amount of money. Everybody likes to save money, dont they? Especially when to spend a dollar you have to earn more than 25% additional money to support the bureaucracy.Try and think of every expenditure in terms of time and sacrifice.How many hours will you have to work to be able to buy a new tank? And what will you have to sacrifice to get it?
Now Im not saying that you dont actually need a new tank.That may very well be. But a tank is not like toilet paper. its very obvious when toilet paper is no longer useful. A tank needs to be inspected. Then if condemned a replacement ordered or procured.
I know waiting is not for everyone, so if you can justify the dollars to hours versus inspection and restoration, in your circumstances, than my words mean nothing. However for me, the cost of a new tank and sending unit would have to be very carefully considered.The new steel fuel line, on the other hand, is almost a no-brainer.Good on that.
It is steel right?
As ever, just trying to be helpful.
Bulldozer
free ice cream sandwiches
now Bruce are you talking to me ? LOLyes I run glass and plastic clear filters, away from any direct heat. I like them because I like to see that im getting fuel , and the condition of the fuel. ive never had an issue. been using them for 20 years
yes I run glass and plastic clear filters, away from any direct heat. I like them because I like to see that im getting fuel , and the condition of the fuel. ive never had an issue. been using them for 20 years
LMAO, well you did cross my mind.
If the engine runs, aren't you getting fuel?
AJ/FormS
68 Formua-S fastback clone 367/A833/GVod/3.55s
- Joined
- Jan 19, 2014
- Messages
- 24,952
- Reaction score
- 12,303
Again you cracked me up. This site has the best of my kind of humor( stuff I can understand and relate to)
I think he said the filter was filling up with air...
I think he said the filter was filling up with air...
Bulldozer
free ice cream sandwiches
LMAO, well you did cross my mind.
If the engine runs, aren't you getting fuel?
lol , well barely , and then the filter fills up and runs good, then the filter empties out again and starts to misfire. because I can see this , it tells me my fuel pump is giving up the ghost, and its not a carb issue. because the fuel is a light orange and the filter looks brown means there is rust in the system, time for a new gas tank :cheers:
PhillH
Well-Known Member
I don't like just throwing money at things, however I have a friend who is generally very careful and thorough, he took his tank out and cleaned it, fine for a couple days, he did this three times and finally just got a new tank, problem solved. I don't want to waste money but for a couple hundred dollars my time and frustration are worth it in this instance I think. As far as the glass filter, I see your point and as soon as I get the bugs worked out I'll change it to plastic, I could definitely see that being a possible leak.
:banghead:
Bulldozer
free ice cream sandwiches
lmao !
-
