Jeep 4.0L Fuel Injection swap onto 225?

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73Duster225

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I have a 1973 Plymouth Duster with the rare Space Duster Package (feel free to correct me if I am wrong). My Duster has a 225 /6 mated to the A727 Torqueflite 3 spd auto with the 7 1/4 rear end. My dad has the LJ Wrangler with the 4.0. I was wondering if anyone knows if it's possible to swap a 4.0 fuel injection setup onto the ever so fabulous 225.
 
From what I've read the Mopar ECUs are not "hack friendly." If I was going to try this I'd "lean" towards Megasquirt or a regurgitated GM ECU

Start by reading all you can on Megasquirt

Also visit the Crash National Interbinder page (LOL sorry) International Harvester AKA

"Binder planet"

http://www.binderplanet.com/

and reading through their EFI stickies

here

http://www.binderplanet.com/forums/index.php?forums/injection-tech.75/

Also we have a member here that was doing a slant, "pishta" (spelling?)
 
You most likely have a 904 not a 727.

As for a 4.0L injection swap, some parts like the throttle body are quite useful, but the rest of the system especially the JTEC ECU are not swap friendly. The post 2000 4.0's are even less swap friendly with 05 and 06 being the worst. (My DD is an 05 LJ Rubicon). The later 4.0 used a crank position sensor, cam position sensor and a wasted spark coil-on-plug setup. That would be a real PITA to swap onto anything. Also the factory gauge cluster has an embedded computer that must be used. Four oxygen sensors with dual catalytic converters etc...
 
Hi, C130, aren't you the guy who originally pointed me to "binderplanet?"
 
Probably. I was in the process of putting TBI on my Gladiator until I totally ran out of money for car projects of any nature.

To the OP, the Rochester TBI system is pretty much stand alone, and will support anything that can be reasonably done to a slant.
 
Damn I'm sure sorry to hear that. I piddle along with what I have. I wish I could think of a good way to make money in my old age. There's an awful lot I won't or can't do, anymore. Putting up with the pubic is one!!!
 
the only thing that you could use from the 4.0 is the TB, injectors and maybe a few sensors eg. MAp, IAT, coolant. MS2 is cheap, EDIS is super easy to use (trigger wheel, thats it!) use MSnS to control spark advance. if you want to get the whole enchilada, try getting a Ford system off a 300 I6. Use a stainless fuel rail off a Northstar motor (not the plastic hose style) and cut ends so you have 2x3 bung pieces, weld or hose clamp together, the spacing is perfect for the runners on a 6 and you get a regulator. You could also half-*** it and buy an old analog 2bbl Holly Pro-jection. all it needs externally is a pump.
 
I would "THINK" that it would not be too hard to do. Since the DO SHARE the same firing order, 153624, it shouldn't be too tough to figger a trigger. lol

You MIGHT could even come right off the factory electronic ignition signal.
 
RustyRatRod said:
... it shouldn't be too tough to figger a trigger. lol
You MIGHT could even come right off the factory electronic ignition signal.
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I think the crank trigger is the hard part. The ignition pulses just give rpm (like for a tach), but don't give a TDC signal needed for spark control. The simplest crank signal is the Ford EDIS mentioned. That uses a 36 tooth wheel w/ 1 missing tooth. I put one on my 65 Dart SB. I saw a youtube video of one on a slant, though the pickup mount looked wobbly. EDIS has a separate processing box that determines when to spark and manages the coil packs. Since no cam sensor, it is a "wasted spark" system (sparks at every TDC). An external controller sends a signal for "requested spark advance" via delaying a square wave signal. (similar to how advance is commanded to GM 8-pin HEI module). Many people use a Megasquirt controller to supervise EDIS.

Many non-Ford engines have much more complicated crank pickup patterns (which its controller would expect). My 2002 Chrysler 3.8L has ~12 open slots unevenly spaced on the "toner ring" of the outer flexplate. I saw that a 2003 flexplate has a much different pattern. I didn't try to figure how they use the slots to figure crank position. The Jeep may use a similar non-trivial pattern. Some engines (Chrysler Hemi, my Plymouth 2.4L) have the toner ring integral with the crankshaft.
 
73Duster225 said:
I have a 1973 Plymouth Duster with the rare Space Duster Package (feel free to correct me if I am wrong). My Duster has a 225 /6 mated to the A727 Torqueflite 3 spd auto with the 7 1/4 rear end. My dad has the LJ Wrangler with the 4.0. I was wondering if anyone knows if it's possible to swap a 4.0 fuel injection setup onto the ever so fabulous 225.
Click to expand...

That "ever so fabulous" 225 motor has, bolted to it, a NOT SO FABULOUS cylinder head, which you are stuck with. The bottom line is, the head has such small valves and ports, adding a free-flowing, electronically fuel injected intake system isn't going to pick it up very much, because the restriction to flow is not going to change much. It's the head.

You can spend $1,400.00 on porting the head, and install bigger valves, but it will never really perform well... the head is THAT bad...

Our friend PISHTA, though, has designed a neat little turbo mount that BOLTS (no welding) onto a stock slant six exhaust manifold. and makes turbocharging the slant six a whole lot easier than it used to be.

The turbo makes an end-run around the breathing problems created by the highly-restrictive 225 head, and is a sure cure for the N/A blues that seem to accompany efforts to have a reasonably-fast slant six powered Mopar, naturally-aspirated.

Turbocharging is neither easy nor cheap, but is a prettty viable way to get 350 horsepower out of the leaning tower of power.

350 horsepower is NOT easy to come-by naturally-aspirated, fuel-injected or not...:violent1:

I'd suggest you look into it...
 

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For information on this topic there is a article in one of the mopar mags i think last year on a guy who did it on a b bod slant he used tbi from the 4l an injectors from a 5.0 ford on a custom in take or it was on a moded one an he turboed it for ecu he used a cheap mega squirt he sodered it him self ill see if i still have the article tomarrow an let u know!
 
I found the magazine on fuel injection its mopar action 2/2014 has a super charged duster an turbo 64 b body
 
7t1gt said:
for ecu he used a cheap mega squirt !
Click to expand...

Might be an interesting article, but if he didn't use the Jeep ECU he it's hardly "Jeep injection" LOL

I was going to say that the Mopar ECUs seem to be the least friendly mod friendly "there is" I don't know what is "low cost" available for add on "tuners"
 
The one guy used ford Taurus tb with mustang 32# injecters on a moded factory intake with mega squirt cpu. An wrote his own program to run the set up on his laptop i thought he ran jeep tb last night but obviously wrong when i scan through the article! Oop an sorry
 
Going to need ~36lb (385cc) injectors for a 350hp /6. Thats a stout 6 too, triple the OEM power!
 
pishta said:
Going to need ~36lb (385cc) injectors for a 350hp /6. Thats a stout 6 too, triple the OEM power!
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I doubt that you can get that much power out of a 225 naturally-aspirated, without going full-race on the other engine specs. The head is the limiting factor, as I see it.

Adding forced induction makes it a whole new ballgame. 350hp is a walk in the park with a turbocharger, but is ragged-edge, with only atmospheric pressure to fill the cylinders.

A PISHTA pipe and a 60mm turbo would make it easy, though...:cheers:
 
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