Larger T-bar suggestions?
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pauly v.100
Well-Known Member
i just jumped from /6 tbars, .089 i think, to 1.06 bars and WOW what a difference. 1.06 might be a little stiff for some people but i love them, the car can go through corners with power on and it stays flat and sticks.. very nice.
dgc333
Well-Known Member
My 68 Barracuda was orignally a \6 car with heavy duty suspension which gave it the light duty sb v8 bars that are .850" in diameter. I swapped out those bars for big block .890" bars. I already had a rebuilt front suspension with new KYB shocks when I did this and it made a dramatic improvement in the handling with very little increase in the ride stiffness.
Latter when I swapped in the 360 I noticed the car had more body roll in the corners so I installed a 1.125" thick sway bar which made the car better than when it had the \6 and no bar.
I have heard as many people say the bars bigger than 1" are to harsh for anything but perfectly smooth roads as those that like them. IMHO, I would go with the .890 or .920 bars.
Latter when I swapped in the 360 I noticed the car had more body roll in the corners so I installed a 1.125" thick sway bar which made the car better than when it had the \6 and no bar.
I have heard as many people say the bars bigger than 1" are to harsh for anything but perfectly smooth roads as those that like them. IMHO, I would go with the .890 or .920 bars.
abodyjoe
Well-Known Member
don't play around. go right to 1". just suspension and firm feel sell them i believe. car will handle a lot better. you won't get that nose dive and body roll like you do with the stock ones. on jamies car we went with the .920's because firm feel and just suspension didn't carry the 1" ones. if they did i would have gotten them. the ride is nice too. firm but in no way harsh.
I just went from /6 bars to 1" just suspension bars.
WOW!
I never knew how much i was bottoming out... till i went with 1" bars... i lost a little weight transfer at the track, but driving is alot more fun, especially around corners!
WOW!
I never knew how much i was bottoming out... till i went with 1" bars... i lost a little weight transfer at the track, but driving is alot more fun, especially around corners!
If you dont already have a swaybar I strongly suggest you try that first.
Might be all you need.
Might be all you need.
1968FormulaS340
Well-Known Member
What specifically do you not like about the way your car handles now?
What would you like it to do that it does not?
What is the age and condition of your suspension?
What Shocks?
What rear springs?
What tires?
What wheels?
What Alignment?
What would you like it to do that it does not?
What is the age and condition of your suspension?
What Shocks?
What rear springs?
What tires?
What wheels?
What Alignment?
Its all original and never been touched so I am doing everything. I already did
the steering box and pittman and idler arms when I put the dougs headers in,
I have a PST kit for the others and have been looking at the T bars now.
I did the E body I had years ago and could out corner my friends Volvo twin turbo. Just looking to make this a lot more fun to drive
the steering box and pittman and idler arms when I put the dougs headers in,
I have a PST kit for the others and have been looking at the T bars now.
I did the E body I had years ago and could out corner my friends Volvo twin turbo. Just looking to make this a lot more fun to drive
1968FormulaS340
Well-Known Member
You are on the right track then..... You can only tell how things work if everything is good.
If you really want to turn on your A-Body get some good performance radials (and I'm not talking BFG radial TAs here). Tires honestly (regardless of what others may say) are the single largest improvement you can make.
I would probably put in what you have and see where you are before new torsion bars.
If you really want to turn on your A-Body get some good performance radials (and I'm not talking BFG radial TAs here). Tires honestly (regardless of what others may say) are the single largest improvement you can make.
I would probably put in what you have and see where you are before new torsion bars.
I'd go with the 1" bars. You'll notice a HUGE improvement in handling, and the downside is fairly limited. Mopars were seriously undersprung in the front to begin with, they really NEED larger bars even in stock form. Sway bars are a good addition too, but you don't want to mismatch too much by trying to fix all your handling ills with just a sway bar. Sway bars are great, but keep in mind that they also act like a spring and can make for some interesting handling if you have a huge bar, they can cause some interesting "twitches" when they unload if the sway bar isn't matched well with the torsion bars.
I have 1.12" bars in my Challenger and love them, definitely a stiff ride but not harsh at all. I know, not an A-body, but realistically the suspension is pretty much the same, the E-bods are just heavier (hence the really big bars). That being said, the 1.12" bars on my Challenger maxed out my torsion bar adjusters, I was riding pretty much stock height or maybe even a shade higher with no adjustment left, I ended up getting Magnumforce 2" drop spindles to solve the problem. Something to keep in mind, it shouldn't be a problem with 1" bars but any larger than that and I would suspect you might notice the loss of adjustability in the ride height, especially if you like your car set up low.
I have 1.12" bars in my Challenger and love them, definitely a stiff ride but not harsh at all. I know, not an A-body, but realistically the suspension is pretty much the same, the E-bods are just heavier (hence the really big bars). That being said, the 1.12" bars on my Challenger maxed out my torsion bar adjusters, I was riding pretty much stock height or maybe even a shade higher with no adjustment left, I ended up getting Magnumforce 2" drop spindles to solve the problem. Something to keep in mind, it shouldn't be a problem with 1" bars but any larger than that and I would suspect you might notice the loss of adjustability in the ride height, especially if you like your car set up low.
bjkadron
Well-Known Member
Does anyone know the Formula for figuring out the wheel rate for A-body torsion bars? I have a chart from mopar on the e- & b-bodies. But I can't find anything on A-body's. Anyone?
Here you go! I believe these are the original mopar offerings. Firm Feel also lists a table of their t-bars and spring rates for A,B and E bodies (each a little different I believe). As you can see, the A-body bars have a higher spring rate for any given diameter than their B/E counterparts.
pauly v.100
Well-Known Member
You are on the right track then..... You can only tell how things work if everything is good.
huh?!?!
huh?!?!
1968FormulaS340
Well-Known Member
Not hard to figure out what I said.....
He doesn't like the way his car handles....... and is thinking about torsion bars.
In post #7 I ask several specific questions....
In post #8 He gives a reply......
The real issue covered between post #7 and #8 being suspension component condition.
Point being..... Don't go adding torsion bars to fix a handling problem if the problem could be coming from somewhere else.
Again..... In post #8 we see he has installed or has the parts for a front end rebuild.
So yes........ He is "On the right track" for improved handling ....... First make sure everything is good.
So my recommendation was........ Finish the suspension rebuild..... See where that gets you..... Then pick the torsion bars based off where you are and where you want the car to be.
Going back to post #1....... "how much did it change handling for you?"
Again, post #8...... "I did the E body I had years ago and could out corner my friends Volvo twin turbo. Just looking to make this a lot more fun to drive"
These clearly indicates that the real issue is how the car handles.
He doesn't like the way his car handles....... and is thinking about torsion bars.
In post #7 I ask several specific questions....
In post #8 He gives a reply......
The real issue covered between post #7 and #8 being suspension component condition.
Point being..... Don't go adding torsion bars to fix a handling problem if the problem could be coming from somewhere else.
Again..... In post #8 we see he has installed or has the parts for a front end rebuild.
So yes........ He is "On the right track" for improved handling ....... First make sure everything is good.
So my recommendation was........ Finish the suspension rebuild..... See where that gets you..... Then pick the torsion bars based off where you are and where you want the car to be.
Going back to post #1....... "how much did it change handling for you?"
Again, post #8...... "I did the E body I had years ago and could out corner my friends Volvo twin turbo. Just looking to make this a lot more fun to drive"
These clearly indicates that the real issue is how the car handles.
camd64
Remember Landy
on my '64 I went with the .920's when I did the V8 swap. I remember when I got the car how sloppy the thing was. then in a couple days I put on a disc brake kit, all new suspension, all new steering including a 16:1 maual box, and the bars. it was like a whole different car.
dgc333
Well-Known Member
FYI, you can't compare E/B body bar diameters to A-body bars. Because the E/B body is longer the rate is lower for a given diameter.
From the table 72bluNblu posted the 1.12 E/B bar is 250lbs per inch and the A-body 1.04 bar is the equivalent.
I know! :-D
The e-bods are heavier too, which is why I posted the chart. The FFI 1.12" e-body bars are listed at 270#'s, which is why I suggested the 1" a-body bars. FFI lists theirs at 195#'s, but most should be around 200 #'s for a spring rate. With the lighter car that will be plenty, and I still think it'll be softer than the Challenger with the 1.12's, so you should still retain enough adjustability with the stock torsion bar adjusters and no other mods to the suspension.
cudaspaz
Well-Known Member
I've got the 1.06 bars in the cuda, and it is firm but handles pretty well with no pitch and roll.
I get more stiff riding from the rear ss springs than I do from the front end.
I get more stiff riding from the rear ss springs than I do from the front end.
lilcuda
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I had a conversation with Dick Ross at Firm Feel a few weeks ago about this very subject. I was planning on the .940 bars and just wanted to get his opinion on my choice. He told me that the 1.00" bars are the way to go for spirited street driving. I told him I was concerned about having a harsh ride. He said that a harsh ride is more from shock valving than stiff t-bars (to a point). He said that he has never had anyone complain about the 1.00" bars and also reminded me that they are the same price as the .940's so its not like he makes more money on the fatter bars.
They are now selling Bilstein shocks that are specially valved for Mopars.
They are now selling Bilstein shocks that are specially valved for Mopars.
bjkadron
Well-Known Member
Cool! Thanks!
I guess they were really soft rates...
I guess they were really soft rates...
GMachineDartGT
Senior Member
I have been running the 1.04s for a real long time with excellent results. About 250 lb bars are what you need to begin to get the car to handle like a new (normal) car. If you pop for some real shocks, then you will have the basis of a real nice package. Add a 1 1/8 sway bar, tubular arms, and a bushingless strut and now you're talking. The design of our suspensions is fine for what most want to do, but when updated with the modern t bars, bushings, etc, they are real nice.
how about 1 1/4 bars? is that too much?
For the sway bars or the torsion bars?
For sway bars it'd be ok in my opinion, but make sure you also have larger torsion bars to match. As I mentioned earlier, you can run into some corner exit problems if your sway bars are too large, after all they act like a spring and have to unload some time.
Now, 1.25" torsion bars are huge. If you did nothing but race they'd be ok, but for any kind of street driving they'd be huge. Also, you'd have to get drop spindles or re-index your t-bar anchors in order to get to anything resembling a normal ride height.
GMachineDartGT
Senior Member
1.04 torsion and a 1.125 sway bar is plently of roll couple. I wouldn't go any larger on either, unless you were a real experienced racer looking to tune a combo.
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