Learning to paint....

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It shot really nice, and I painted it with a old Stewart-Warner suction cup gun.
If you are doing an overall, I would us base/clear it is easy to paint, especially if you are using a metallic.
 
Cuda416 said:
Well it's not much, but we sprayed epoxy out of that purple gun and it didn't suck. It was only epoxy but hey, a win is a win. Part of this is getting the process down and getting comfortable with things.

My son says he wants to eventually paint the car "Maroon" and has give me an example of a 2018 Jeep with Deep Cherry Red (PRP code). Not really Maroon, but I think he's talking about burgundy so this is close.

I'm thinking of painting it as a surprise while he's away, If I can get it done before he comes home for boot leave, it means I'll have about 15 weeks from the time he goes away. If they are cutting leave from C19, I'll have longer.

For materials, I plan on getting...

1 gallon epoxy primer/sealer
1 gallon high build 2k primer
1 gallon of paint with appropriate reducer
1 gallon of clear (if I do a BC/CC)

Of course I'll get the mixing stuff etc.

Seems there are a lot of good products out there and some crap. I'd like to stack the deck in my favor so I'm looking for recommendations for "brands" to look for.

So far, I see...

PPG (king o fthe hill?)
- Shopline
- Uline (differences from S/L ?)
SPI (epoxy, other?)
Sherwin Williams (Nason?)

I think at this point, I'd rather go BC/CC than SS. My understanding is it's a more durable overall finish and if I screw something up along the way, it's more forgiving to fix?

Anyway, all input is appreciated.
Click to expand...

Anyone correct me if wrong.
What makes a paint durable is UV resistance. A paint with ore solids covers better than one with less.

BC/CC. The base goes on better especially if it contains metallic than single stage. Or easier to apply evenly I guess is my statement.
SPI.. Many like their products and so do I. They also have excellent tech assistance. Read their tech sheet as with any auto paint product. ie. They stress their epoxy primer requires 24 hrs above 60 degrees. Use of Ospho as metal prep can be a problem.

I have had good and durable results with Shopline and Nason. Is it better than more expensive stuff, dunno know, never used the high priced stuff!!
 
Cuda416 said:
Well it's not much, but we sprayed epoxy out of that purple gun and it didn't suck. It was only epoxy but hey, a win is a win. Part of this is getting the process down and getting comfortable with things.

My son says he wants to eventually paint the car "Maroon" and has give me an example of a 2018 Jeep with Deep Cherry Red (PRP code). Not really Maroon, but I think he's talking about burgundy so this is close.

I'm thinking of painting it as a surprise while he's away, If I can get it done before he comes home for boot leave, it means I'll have about 15 weeks from the time he goes away. If they are cutting leave from C19, I'll have longer.

For materials, I plan on getting...

1 gallon epoxy primer/sealer
1 gallon high build 2k primer
1 gallon of paint with appropriate reducer
1 gallon of clear (if I do a BC/CC)

Of course I'll get the mixing stuff etc.

Seems there are a lot of good products out there and some crap. I'd like to stack the deck in my favor so I'm looking for recommendations for "brands" to look for.

So far, I see...

PPG (king o fthe hill?)
- Shopline
- Uline (differences from S/L ?)
SPI (epoxy, other?)
Sherwin Williams (Nason?)

I think at this point, I'd rather go BC/CC than SS. My understanding is it's a more durable overall finish and if I screw something up along the way, it's more forgiving to fix?

Anyway, all input is appreciated.
Click to expand...


Cuda416,

The 3 top Tier OEM and Refinish paint suppliers are BASF, Dupont and PPG (in alphabetical order). You can't go wrong with the quality and durability of any of them. PPG provides the best technical support of the 3. I don't know where BASF and Dupont's tech support went but it's nowhere near what it was when I was in the game.

I use the PPG Shopline bc/cc solventborne products. When BASF had the Diamont low solids bc/cc system line I used theirs all the time. Dupont had a good high solids bc/cc refinish solventborne system but it wasn't as forgiving as their competitor's products.

Sherwin Williams is catching up to the top 3 in refinish materials. The rest of the refinish paint suppliers I can't comment on. I haven't evaluated any of them in quite a while and their product lines have changed.

BTW- don't forget the catalysts when you order your paint. Material amounts needed may change depending on "black and white" hiding specs of your bc. And clearcoat usage for a complete repaint is normally around 1.5 gals, at least it is for me. If you use all the same name brand materials you are less likely to run into paint defects. Surface tensions differ between layers and down the road they may show up.

My 2 cents for whatever it's worth.

ss
 
barbee6043 said:
Anyone correct me if wrong.
What makes a paint durable is UV resistance. A paint with ore solids covers better than one with less.

BC/CC. The base goes on better especially if it contains metallic than single stage. Or easier to apply evenly I guess is my statement.
SPI.. Many like their products and so do I. They also have excellent tech assistance. Read their tech sheet as with any auto paint product. ie. They stress their epoxy primer requires 24 hrs above 60 degrees. Use of Ospho as metal prep can be a problem.

I have had good and durable results with Shopline and Nason. Is it better than more expensive stuff, dunno know, never used the high priced stuff!!
Click to expand...


Barbee,

What makes a paint durable is a combination of the resin system, pigments, light stabilizer package UV package and cross linking system (drying). This is a general statement as there are many sub systems that make up each main system or package.

Most paint systems today are very forgiving in their application latitude. The function of the painter is to try to get even coats on the panels. It doesn't matter if the bc is a straight shade or metallic.

I have no idea what SPI is so I can't comment, but if you are happy with them that's good to hear.

If you like the Shopline product line you will be amazed at the "high priced stuff".
 
sscuda said:
Cuda416,

The 3 top Tier OEM and Refinish paint suppliers are BASF, Dupont and PPG (in alphabetical order). You can't go wrong with the quality and durability of any of them. PPG provides the best technical support of the 3. I don't know where BASF and Dupont's tech support went but it's nowhere near what it was when I was in the game.

I use the PPG Shopline bc/cc solventborne products. When BASF had the Diamont low solids bc/cc system line I used theirs all the time. Dupont had a good high solids bc/cc refinish solventborne system but it wasn't as forgiving as their competitor's products.

Sherwin Williams is catching up to the top 3 in refinish materials. The rest of the refinish paint suppliers I can't comment on. I haven't evaluated any of them in quite a while and their product lines have changed.

BTW- don't forget the catalysts when you order your paint. Material amounts needed may change depending on "black and white" hiding specs of your bc. And clearcoat usage for a complete repaint is normally around 1.5 gals, at least it is for me. If you use all the same name brand materials you are less likely to run into paint defects. Surface tensions differ between layers and down the road they may show up.

My 2 cents for whatever it's worth.

ss
Click to expand...


Thanks, I really appreciate all this insight. no doubt it will help. One thing for instance, is I have no idea "how much" material is needed, so this is all welcome info.
 
Cuda416 said:
Thanks, I really appreciate all this insight. no doubt it will help. One thing for instance, is I have no idea "how much" material is needed, so this is all welcome info.
Click to expand...

Cuda416,

Without knowing the vehicle (size) you are refinishing, (is it a color change?) (are you painting any D class surfaces such as under the hood and decklid, inside the doors?) and the hiding strength of the basecoat it's almost impossible to advise you on the basecoat amount needed. You will have to give the paint supplier your surface info and they should be able to tell you how much you need.

Example: My last complete paint job was Viper Blue on a '68 Cuda fastback and it was a total repaint. I used 2 gals of basecoat. Hiding strength was about average 2.5 mils.

If I'm refinishing a complete vehicle I always buy 2 gals. of clear and use about 1.5 gals. Most clearcoats have a long shelf life.

ss
 
sscuda said:
Cuda416,

Without knowing the vehicle (size) you are refinishing, (is it a color change?) (are you painting any D class surfaces such as under the hood and decklid, inside the doors?) and the hiding strength of the basecoat it's almost impossible to advise you on the basecoat amount needed. You will have to give the paint supplier your surface info and they should be able to tell you how much you need.

Example: My last complete paint job was Viper Blue on a '68 Cuda fastback and it was a total repaint. I used 2 gals of basecoat. Hiding strength was about average 2.5 mils.

If I'm refinishing a complete vehicle I always buy 2 gals. of clear and use about 1.5 gals. Most clearcoats have a long shelf life.

ss
Click to expand...


Man, once again, great info. I've never heard of surface "classes" but it's something that would make sense. I'd love to learn more about that and other criteria.

The car, is a 65 valiant and would be a total repaint, down to metal and sealed with epoxy.
 
I buy projects that are so bad, anything I do will be an improvement!!!!
Good thing I want the rust GONE and will drive it and NEVER to a car show! ha
But I do enjoy still trying to learn to do better work. So I do appreciate "sscuda' and everyone's inputs.
 
Cuda416 said:
Man, once again, great info. I've never heard of surface "classes" but it's something that would make sense. I'd love to learn more about that and other criteria.

The car, is a 65 valiant and would be a total repaint, down to metal and sealed with epoxy.
Click to expand...

Cuda416,

OK, now determine what and how surfaces are going to be painted. If all the surfaces are to be painted to an A surface quality then then I suggest you error on the high side for your material needs.

Part of my job as a senior manager for the OEM paint company was to "qualify" (obtain end user written approvals) for new paint technologies or new paint systems, new colors, new processes and in some instances even new automated application equipment.

Obtaining technology approvals was like pulling hen's teeth sometimes. Color approvals were always subjective even though a McBeth cabinet was involved and I had to deal with female OEM "color specialists" and that's a whole other story. Let's just say I loved the various jobs I had while working for the paint company but some days were extremely frustrating.

"Durability" is a broad word for a very complicated process when it comes to paint approvals. It would take months for me to go over everything with you.

Let me condense it for you:

Physical durability consists of chip resistance, wear resistance, adhesion (cross cut and tape pull) , short and long term weathering (fading and discoloration) And every OEL: had their very own versions of ASTM or SAE test methods.

Physical attributes consist of color match to the OE paint standard, gloss, D.O.I. (distinction of image) and the ever popular orange peel.

Processability - if the paint system, color or equipment isn't able to be processed in a given assembly plant the product(s) fail. I've only ever had this once and it was a blessing in disguise (have you ever seen a very bright yellow pearl paint job on a 90's Camaro or Firebird?).............Well It almost happened!

OK, gotta get back to my full on custom Radio Flyer wagon build for my 3 year old grand daughter. You should see the paint job I hung on this unit!!!!! hot pink pearl , mauve (violet pearl) and bright white racking with red sparkles (glitter). And two Frozen II decals.


ss
 
sscuda said:
OK, gotta get back to my full on custom Radio Flyer wagon build for my 3 year old grand daughter. You should see the paint job I hung on this unit!!!!! hot pink pearl , mauve (violet pearl) and bright white racking with red sparkles (glitter). And two Frozen II decals.
ss
Click to expand...

Pretty sure dropping that and running away without showing pictures is against a rule somewhere!
 
barbee6043 said:
I buy projects that are so bad, anything I do will be an improvement!!!!
Good thing I want the rust GONE and will drive it and NEVER to a car show! ha
But I do enjoy still trying to learn to do better work. So I do appreciate "sscuda' and everyone's inputs.
Click to expand...

Barbee,

Thanks, I try to help as many people as genuinely want the help.

I don't care how old you think you are, you are a prime candidate for a night school course in body and paint. I've taught a lot of painters and paint instructors in my time but the one's that honestly had the desire and drive to do better on each and every paint job they did, excelled at the trade. You're never too old to learn from true professionals. You are not going to learn a whole lot just listening to guys on this forum (me included). There are many ways to refinish a vehicle but only one correct way. You need to learn by physically working with the pro's in a controlled setting. That's my 2 cents for whatever it's worth. Hell, I'm still learning new things in this trade and it's exciting.

Paint technologies today change like the weather and for the most part the paint technologies today are light years ahead of what they were when I started out. Anyone on here ever spray and then hand rub out nitrocellulose lacquer to try to get some semblance of a shine.? You'll know what I mean.

OK, I'll get off my soap box now.

Be safe!!!

ss
 
sscuda said:
Barbee,
I don't care how old you think you are, you are a prime candidate for a night school course in body and paint.
ss
Click to expand...

Dunno if it's me, or there simply aren't many ops for night classes near San Antonio. I'm looking though!
 
Same way where I live. The only night classes offered at the local community college here are craft brewing! :rolleyes: I could drive 50 miles to McDowell Tech for night classes, so that's a no! I'd really like to learn about mixing for temps, humidity, etc. I've done really well so far.....but I know a lot of it has just been luck.
 
I may have already stated this but I think in my area, finding a night class or even someone who would have the time to mentor me locally, is probably not going to happen. I have had some excellent people from FABO offer phone assistance and I've contacted a couple, so a hardy "Thanks" to them. I hope to keep them in the loop and benefit from their experience over time.

My path to auto refinishing nirvana will most likely be paved by a lot of trial and error. I don't mind the errors, that's where I learn the most. I break stuff, then fix it. It's during the fixing, that understanding creeps in and I learn the most.

My first project from start to "finish" will be the hood to the Valiant. Not too hard but a real panel and a real task. It's getting a fiberglass six pack scoop, which will be bonded on using that 3M panel bond.

The hood will get stripped, epoxied, bumped straight as needed, and eventually be a semi gloss (matte?) black.
 
4spdragtop said:
Kudos to you, make sure to post pics as you progress. Tools, supplies, work area, "booth".
Click to expand...

Most certainly. It will likely look like a murder scene because I'm not very organized. Something I need to work on
 
Cuda416 said:
I may have already stated this but I think in my area, finding a night class or even someone who would have the time to mentor me locally, is probably not going to happen. I have had some excellent people from FABO offer phone assistance and I've contacted a couple, so a hardy "Thanks" to them. I hope to keep them in the loop and benefit from their experience over time.

My path to auto refinishing nirvana will most likely be paved by a lot of trial and error. I don't mind the errors, that's where I learn the most. I break stuff, then fix it. It's during the fixing, that understanding creeps in and I learn the most.

My first project from start to "finish" will be the hood to the Valiant. Not too hard but a real panel and a real task. It's getting a fiberglass six pack scoop, which will be bonded on using that 3M panel bond.

The hood will get stripped, epoxied, bumped straight as needed, and eventually be a semi gloss (matte?) black.
Click to expand...

Semi gloss, your learning curve is going to be steep.
I painted an inner fender last week for my neighbors truck, single stage flat black, it really tested me.
Ended up painting one side of the inner fender 3 times before it looked right, everything that could have went wrong did.
1. Temperature was too cool in the garage for the reducer he gave me to use, sob was taking over an hr to flash off between coats.
2. Ran out of paint in the gun on the final coat, with around one 4" band down the entire length of the fender, dry look in that area.
3. Nailed it mixed plenty of paint and shot it with the garage, and part temp over 70 degrees.
 
After having a great conversation last night over dinner with an old friend (very talented retired painter/body man) I've decided I should get a second gun so that I can have one for BC and one for CC to prevent any accidental contamination in the CC.

Other than the tip size, what should I look for in a second. My current gun is the Devillbis FLG4. Does clear shoot significantly differently somehow that would prompt a "different" gun or do I just get another FLG4 and call it a day?
 
I always used the same gun for base and clear.
This gas tank I using an AWEST IWTA LPH-400.

Mbuu19.jpg
 
I've got a Devillbis Tekna Pro Lite, and use it for both base and clear. I clean it brain surgery clean after base coat, and have had no problems. I use the 1.4 tip for both. When I did the Leer fiberglass topper for my wife's Dakota, I used it for sealer, base, and clear. I did about as much gun cleaning as I did painting....lol.
 
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