SNKEBIT
Spending $$ on Mopars
Starting on mine this weekend too!!! Wooo Hooo!!!!!:blob:
Left for Dead 68 Barracuda Buildup
- Thread starter ssba
- Start date
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ssba
Well-Known Member
It has been some time since I have been here but I did get a chance to do some
work on the car last night for a change.
I decided to start by modifying the engine bay to ready for the engine
test fit. My car was a factory AC car so I started by welding up a few holes that
shouldn't be there on a non AC model. Then I went on to clearance/beat the shock
support area for valve cover removal room.
All of the original work I've seen from Hurst in this area has been rough at best and
even rougher on some others. So I didn't feel the need to make it to nice or pretty.
I will post a few pictures of the steps I used to get where I needed to be. I feel I have
moved enough metal but will know for sure when engine is set in.
Basically I made a cut and drilled some spot welds to fold in the sheet metal to get
to the thicker shock mount behind. Fired up the smoke wrench and cut a thin triangle
out of the front and rear side of the thick shock brace. I know this is crude but it works and
I feel the look in the end is what I wanted.
With the triangles burned out I continued heating the brace till it glowed orange and bashed it in with a heavy hammer. It moved easy and while it was still hot I mig welded the hammered closed cuts solid again.
Next I folded the sheet metal flap back in place and welded it solid and buffed it mostly smooth. I didn't make it too perfect as it was about to get hammered in to the trimmed
shock mount. After the beating I welded the drilled spots back in.
The pictures will show it better than words.
Then I moved on to some blasting. My blasting equipment is light duty and takes
a lot of time. It does a good job without going fast enough to heat warp anything.
I will have many many hours ahead of me at this pace getting the car cleaned.
I feel a motor to pump speed change is needed on my compressor to shorten the recoupe
time. This takes more air than anything I have done with my compressor and It will run constant
If I don't give it a break.
I did buy a good hood so I can now stand to blast longer than I want my compressor to run.
work on the car last night for a change.
I decided to start by modifying the engine bay to ready for the engine
test fit. My car was a factory AC car so I started by welding up a few holes that
shouldn't be there on a non AC model. Then I went on to clearance/beat the shock
support area for valve cover removal room.
All of the original work I've seen from Hurst in this area has been rough at best and
even rougher on some others. So I didn't feel the need to make it to nice or pretty.
I will post a few pictures of the steps I used to get where I needed to be. I feel I have
moved enough metal but will know for sure when engine is set in.
Basically I made a cut and drilled some spot welds to fold in the sheet metal to get
to the thicker shock mount behind. Fired up the smoke wrench and cut a thin triangle
out of the front and rear side of the thick shock brace. I know this is crude but it works and
I feel the look in the end is what I wanted.
With the triangles burned out I continued heating the brace till it glowed orange and bashed it in with a heavy hammer. It moved easy and while it was still hot I mig welded the hammered closed cuts solid again.
Next I folded the sheet metal flap back in place and welded it solid and buffed it mostly smooth. I didn't make it too perfect as it was about to get hammered in to the trimmed
shock mount. After the beating I welded the drilled spots back in.
The pictures will show it better than words.
Then I moved on to some blasting. My blasting equipment is light duty and takes
a lot of time. It does a good job without going fast enough to heat warp anything.
I will have many many hours ahead of me at this pace getting the car cleaned.
I feel a motor to pump speed change is needed on my compressor to shorten the recoupe
time. This takes more air than anything I have done with my compressor and It will run constant
If I don't give it a break.
I did buy a good hood so I can now stand to blast longer than I want my compressor to run.
Looks good, I am just buttoning mine up if you have any questions on fitting that elephant in that beast your building let me know. TTI makes headers for this application.
Here's a pic of mine just going together. I used a stock K-member, HemiDenny custom built for me to fit with the TTI Headers so he has the specs and mounts all built if you decide to go that way.
Here's a pic of mine just going together. I used a stock K-member, HemiDenny custom built for me to fit with the TTI Headers so he has the specs and mounts all built if you decide to go that way.
2 Darts
A-body Addicted
Very cool work. I think I'm going to like seeing what you have to do to get the Hemi to fit. An LA is tight enough.
I noticed that the rules you're building to allow frame connectors. No mention of torque boxes. I've seen them on the A-body Cuda ragtops, but I'm not sure about the others from that generation. Under the rules, would it be legal to install torque boxes on a fastback even if the factory, or Hurst, didn't?
I noticed that the rules you're building to allow frame connectors. No mention of torque boxes. I've seen them on the A-body Cuda ragtops, but I'm not sure about the others from that generation. Under the rules, would it be legal to install torque boxes on a fastback even if the factory, or Hurst, didn't?
ssba
Well-Known Member
Torque boxes would be legal as they were installed on some of the cars at the factory.
I have made my own Hemi K-member after much research and the engine will fit the same as the original Hurst modified cars. That's the plan anyway.
I am doing more sandblasting on the engine compartment
as I speak. Giving the compressor a break and getting a snack. My compressor is barely adequate and this is taking
much longer than I had thought it would. I will post some more pictures when the front sheet metal is cleaned bare.
Soon I will be going over how to build the K- frame and what I
had to do to the stock engine brackets. So check in every so often as I progress.
I have made my own Hemi K-member after much research and the engine will fit the same as the original Hurst modified cars. That's the plan anyway.
I am doing more sandblasting on the engine compartment
as I speak. Giving the compressor a break and getting a snack. My compressor is barely adequate and this is taking
much longer than I had thought it would. I will post some more pictures when the front sheet metal is cleaned bare.
Soon I will be going over how to build the K- frame and what I
had to do to the stock engine brackets. So check in every so often as I progress.
ssba
Well-Known Member
Sky power I have been following your build for sometime now.
Your car is looking great. Makes me want mine to be black when I see your car.
I have a used pair of hooker headers for my car. I have heard
they don't fit that good. I am hoping the people who are having
trouble with the headers fit on their cars is due to engine location more than tube placement with the headers. We will see soon.
I will post a picture of the Hemi so you can get a glimpse
into the future or past in the case of this 70s vintage build.
Your car is looking great. Makes me want mine to be black when I see your car.
I have a used pair of hooker headers for my car. I have heard
they don't fit that good. I am hoping the people who are having
trouble with the headers fit on their cars is due to engine location more than tube placement with the headers. We will see soon.
I will post a picture of the Hemi so you can get a glimpse
into the future or past in the case of this 70s vintage build.
ssba
Well-Known Member
Here's a sneak preview of what's to come.
I will go over some of the details about the engine along the way.
I will go over some of the details about the engine along the way.
famous bob
mopar misfit
great thread ! following, and can`t wait for the next post. similar build on mine (68 fastback) but mine is not built for a certain class, and has a 505" alum. ported head wedge. other than that close.
Motor looks great keep it up, you are going to have a very cool ride when finished.
ssba
Well-Known Member
I came across my first rust issue that is more serious than just removing the surface rust.
It appears it has rusted from the inside out in this area. Didn't
make it self known till the blasting grit found the weakness.
This is the area that the air conditioner unit bolts to the inside firewall. I will be removing the factory air unit and leaving it out of the build. The original Hurst cars had a block off
disc to fill the blower motor hole. Heater delete so no heater box will be installed.
I knew I was going to have to do something in this area due
to the firewall being hole'd for factory air so the rust thru didn't
really change anything.
The big question is do I remove the inner fenders and replace
the entire firewall with the correct non ac part at the factory seams. Or do I splice in a section from a non Ac car.
If anyone cares to give their opinion on this repair decision I would like to hear what you would do. I have a few more days of blasting to do so I am not rushed on making up my mind.
This car has many cut and splices around the car already
so I am leaning in that direction.
It appears it has rusted from the inside out in this area. Didn't
make it self known till the blasting grit found the weakness.
This is the area that the air conditioner unit bolts to the inside firewall. I will be removing the factory air unit and leaving it out of the build. The original Hurst cars had a block off
disc to fill the blower motor hole. Heater delete so no heater box will be installed.
I knew I was going to have to do something in this area due
to the firewall being hole'd for factory air so the rust thru didn't
really change anything.
The big question is do I remove the inner fenders and replace
the entire firewall with the correct non ac part at the factory seams. Or do I splice in a section from a non Ac car.
If anyone cares to give their opinion on this repair decision I would like to hear what you would do. I have a few more days of blasting to do so I am not rushed on making up my mind.
This car has many cut and splices around the car already
so I am leaning in that direction.
SNKEBIT
Spending $$ on Mopars
I would do whatever is easiest for the particular location. Butt welding in patches, if done right, blend right in and disappear. So, you don't know any different anyway. Sometimes that's easier than trying to duplicate factory spotwelds.
ssba
Well-Known Member
I have gone as far as I can on the blasting till the suspension
is removed. I will try to get that done today.
Before I remove the K-frame I took a measurement from the
driver side frame rail to the steering box. It was 3/4". I can move the steering box mounting bracket over towards the driver side rail nearly this amount without cutting into the frame rail.
This should give me some extra room for the headers.
More on this when K-frame is removed.
Before the steering column was removed I put a mark where I wanted the outer column tube to end. Hurst removed 2" of this tube to fit the Hemi. I just moved it as far as I could. I removed about 4 1/2"
It doesn't seem like much but I will take all the extra room I can find. I still have to have room for the clutch rod and Z-bar.
Since my car was originally a automatic transmission car
It doesn't have the Z-bar pivot bracket welded to the outside
of the inner fender. I will leave this stiffening plate off till I
have checked Z-bar operation for best location.
is removed. I will try to get that done today.
Before I remove the K-frame I took a measurement from the
driver side frame rail to the steering box. It was 3/4". I can move the steering box mounting bracket over towards the driver side rail nearly this amount without cutting into the frame rail.
This should give me some extra room for the headers.
More on this when K-frame is removed.
Before the steering column was removed I put a mark where I wanted the outer column tube to end. Hurst removed 2" of this tube to fit the Hemi. I just moved it as far as I could. I removed about 4 1/2"
It doesn't seem like much but I will take all the extra room I can find. I still have to have room for the clutch rod and Z-bar.
Since my car was originally a automatic transmission car
It doesn't have the Z-bar pivot bracket welded to the outside
of the inner fender. I will leave this stiffening plate off till I
have checked Z-bar operation for best location.
ssba
Well-Known Member
This is how much of the steering column
outer tube I left protruding into the engine
compartment. The picture from the top shows
it best. If I still have interference with the steering
shaft I can replace the hollow tube type factory shaft
with a 3/4" solid shaft and gain some more room. I will
wait on doing this and only if necessary.
Some of these modifications that I am doing weren't done
by hurst. The reason for needing more room than Hurst on
my build is due to the headers I am trying to use.
The original cars came from Hurst with hooker headers that
are not available today. They used a 1 7/8" primary tube.
In all my searching I was able to find one pair of these headers and the seller wanted 3000.00 for a mostly complete
set. Missing one tube. Not a option for my budget and a part
better left for a original car being restored back to 68.
So I tracked down a used pair of hooker headers that are a few years newer and have a primary tube diameter of 2 1/4".
These only cost me100.00 and are a better choice for the engine I have being that it is modified from original SS specs.
Bad thing is with the larger primary tubes things get tighter.
The tubes are not bent to match the routing of the originals also. I will dig up some pictures as a comparison of the Hurst installed pipes compared to what is easier to find today.
outer tube I left protruding into the engine
compartment. The picture from the top shows
it best. If I still have interference with the steering
shaft I can replace the hollow tube type factory shaft
with a 3/4" solid shaft and gain some more room. I will
wait on doing this and only if necessary.
Some of these modifications that I am doing weren't done
by hurst. The reason for needing more room than Hurst on
my build is due to the headers I am trying to use.
The original cars came from Hurst with hooker headers that
are not available today. They used a 1 7/8" primary tube.
In all my searching I was able to find one pair of these headers and the seller wanted 3000.00 for a mostly complete
set. Missing one tube. Not a option for my budget and a part
better left for a original car being restored back to 68.
So I tracked down a used pair of hooker headers that are a few years newer and have a primary tube diameter of 2 1/4".
These only cost me100.00 and are a better choice for the engine I have being that it is modified from original SS specs.
Bad thing is with the larger primary tubes things get tighter.
The tubes are not bent to match the routing of the originals also. I will dig up some pictures as a comparison of the Hurst installed pipes compared to what is easier to find today.
ssba
Well-Known Member
Here is some header pictures for comparison.
The white set are original to the Hurst SS cars.
The hooker unpainted set is what can be bought today.
They are enough different to cause problems with fit from
what my research on the web tells me. Will see if this is true
and report here with my findings.
Every pair of these newer headers I have found used have had the crap beat out of them with hammers and welded repairs. I take that as a indication they don't fit well. Strange
thing is the areas racers have banged and welded on the pipes
is not in the same places consistently from set to set.
So I am leaning toward engine placement and header tolerance during manufacturing being the reason for all the
problems.
If this set I got turns into a total bust I will make my own set
from purchased bends and a pair of flanges. I would have
preferred to use 2" primary's if I could have bought them in this size.
The white set are original to the Hurst SS cars.
The hooker unpainted set is what can be bought today.
They are enough different to cause problems with fit from
what my research on the web tells me. Will see if this is true
and report here with my findings.
Every pair of these newer headers I have found used have had the crap beat out of them with hammers and welded repairs. I take that as a indication they don't fit well. Strange
thing is the areas racers have banged and welded on the pipes
is not in the same places consistently from set to set.
So I am leaning toward engine placement and header tolerance during manufacturing being the reason for all the
problems.
If this set I got turns into a total bust I will make my own set
from purchased bends and a pair of flanges. I would have
preferred to use 2" primary's if I could have bought them in this size.
ssba
Well-Known Member
This is my starting point for the Hemi K-frame.
The factory built cars began with a BB K- frame.
I started with a less desirable part that I have already.
I took a torch and carefully removed all the engine mounting
pads and ground what was left for a clean slate start.
I have left the steering gear mounting bracket intact at this point.
The factory built cars began with a BB K- frame.
I started with a less desirable part that I have already.
I took a torch and carefully removed all the engine mounting
pads and ground what was left for a clean slate start.
I have left the steering gear mounting bracket intact at this point.
ssba
Well-Known Member
Oops double post
Are you allowed to use elephant ears or some sort of motor plate. Makes the header thing easier, especially if you go external lines on oil pump, also gives you some flexibility on the location.
ssba
Well-Known Member
I think you could but not positive on this. Rules say stock engine location. I just chose not to on this build.
Although it would be easier I'm sure, I like the look of a Hemi on the stock mounts. Gives a more primitive and streetable vibe.
The modified production class was based on a dual purpose car that could be driven to the track and swap on some slicks. And by building to mimick a 1973 time period I thought
better to not go with the elephant ears.
I will be staying away from the more modern track only car stuff. No trick sheet metal intakes or msds, it is a real dinosaur.
Brass radiator, very sparce stainless braid only on oil lines, minimalist roll bar, can be bolt in.
Stock dash with a few old Stewart Warners added. Basically a
street brawler built with only hot rod parts you could get at the time.
The beauty of this class for me is you had to use a stock unmodified body but the engines had less restrictions than the SS class.
You were allowed to put a pro stock engine in a street car and go racing then drive it home.
I will be getting into more detail soon on the engine mounting.
I will be using a very early milodon dual line pan. It is deeper than the pans sold today. The headers also hang very low. This is just before dry sumps and lencos became common and the cars still were set up high like the super stocks.
Slot mag wheels were still being used some even in prostock.
4-speeds were the name of the game.
I am a fanatic about all of these early and obsolete speed parts that get passed over by most at the swap meets.
I want to see how fast I can go on this old stuff.
I anticipate the car will be a handful going down a track.
I honestly really don't believe any tracks will let me run it without many many safety updates. For me this defeats
the purpose of building a vintage race car if it isn't completely
vintage throughout. So chances are this will only see limited
street miles on race gas.
Very old school by design.
12.5-13 to 1 compression forged pistons
1971 Prostock aluminum heads
426 cubic inches. Iron 68 block
Kellogg crank and NASCAR rods
Stock wide pad rockers
Accel dual distributor
Direct Connection crank trigger
Twin gold box ignitions and chrome race coils
Yellow solid core accel plug wires
Very early Holley dominator carbs on Weiand tunnelram
The list goes on but that gives you the feel of how it was done in the early 70s.
I am dying to get this engine fit in the car.
Although it would be easier I'm sure, I like the look of a Hemi on the stock mounts. Gives a more primitive and streetable vibe.
The modified production class was based on a dual purpose car that could be driven to the track and swap on some slicks. And by building to mimick a 1973 time period I thought
better to not go with the elephant ears.
I will be staying away from the more modern track only car stuff. No trick sheet metal intakes or msds, it is a real dinosaur.
Brass radiator, very sparce stainless braid only on oil lines, minimalist roll bar, can be bolt in.
Stock dash with a few old Stewart Warners added. Basically a
street brawler built with only hot rod parts you could get at the time.
The beauty of this class for me is you had to use a stock unmodified body but the engines had less restrictions than the SS class.
You were allowed to put a pro stock engine in a street car and go racing then drive it home.
I will be getting into more detail soon on the engine mounting.
I will be using a very early milodon dual line pan. It is deeper than the pans sold today. The headers also hang very low. This is just before dry sumps and lencos became common and the cars still were set up high like the super stocks.
Slot mag wheels were still being used some even in prostock.
4-speeds were the name of the game.
I am a fanatic about all of these early and obsolete speed parts that get passed over by most at the swap meets.
I want to see how fast I can go on this old stuff.
I anticipate the car will be a handful going down a track.
I honestly really don't believe any tracks will let me run it without many many safety updates. For me this defeats
the purpose of building a vintage race car if it isn't completely
vintage throughout. So chances are this will only see limited
street miles on race gas.
Very old school by design.
12.5-13 to 1 compression forged pistons
1971 Prostock aluminum heads
426 cubic inches. Iron 68 block
Kellogg crank and NASCAR rods
Stock wide pad rockers
Accel dual distributor
Direct Connection crank trigger
Twin gold box ignitions and chrome race coils
Yellow solid core accel plug wires
Very early Holley dominator carbs on Weiand tunnelram
The list goes on but that gives you the feel of how it was done in the early 70s.
I am dying to get this engine fit in the car.
By the way, my favorite vintage wheels are still available new: http://www.team3wheels.com/fueler.html
ssba
Well-Known Member
Thought I'd add another recent picture of the car.
I am removing the doors, steering column, heat & air box, pedals & complete frt suspension now to continue with the blasting.
The space is small so I had to have the camera as far into the corner as possible to get a whole car shot for you. The blasting is dragging but moving along as fast as my compressor can handle. Will be working with the car on stands for awhile now till the rust is blasted clean.
I am removing the doors, steering column, heat & air box, pedals & complete frt suspension now to continue with the blasting.
The space is small so I had to have the camera as far into the corner as possible to get a whole car shot for you. The blasting is dragging but moving along as fast as my compressor can handle. Will be working with the car on stands for awhile now till the rust is blasted clean.
ssba
Well-Known Member
I should mention to buy the materials to build a rottisarie and pay to have the blasting done local would have taken over a couple thousand dollars. I can see it as the best option from a time perspective.
ssba
Well-Known Member
I went ahead and cut the steering box pad off the K-frame.
I want to move the manual box as close to the frame rail as
I have room for. Turns out the lower control arm pivot and
sector is the limiting interference. It took some careful cutting and grinding on the steering box mounting pad to get the box moved closer to the frame rail. I was paying close attention to get box repositioned at the correct height and front to rear as where it had mounted originally. Only changing the side to side location.
I took a picture of the tight spot and how steering column lines up with box moved 3/4" closer to the frame rail.
As you can see this is the most it can be moved. It just touches.
A couple aditional metal gussets will be welded in to strengthen the steering box mount after engine mounting pads are built and welded on. I had to cut a good portion of the strength out to move it over and make room for driver side engine mounting pad.
Time to make some Hemi mounts.
I want to move the manual box as close to the frame rail as
I have room for. Turns out the lower control arm pivot and
sector is the limiting interference. It took some careful cutting and grinding on the steering box mounting pad to get the box moved closer to the frame rail. I was paying close attention to get box repositioned at the correct height and front to rear as where it had mounted originally. Only changing the side to side location.
I took a picture of the tight spot and how steering column lines up with box moved 3/4" closer to the frame rail.
As you can see this is the most it can be moved. It just touches.
A couple aditional metal gussets will be welded in to strengthen the steering box mount after engine mounting pads are built and welded on. I had to cut a good portion of the strength out to move it over and make room for driver side engine mounting pad.
Time to make some Hemi mounts.
ssba
Well-Known Member
To start making the engine mounting pads needed that get welded to the
K-frame I went to see a guy that was close by that hoards factory Hemi
stuff.
He doesn't sell parts but let me get some patterns off a loose B-body K-frame
he had from a Hemi car.
I took a fresh roll of masking tape and a xacto knife with me and covered the
mounting pads with several layers. Cut out all the holes and shapes carefully.
When I removed the tape I stuck it to some paper.
I now have a flat pattern that I can transfer to a plate of steel.
With the patterns traced to the steel I cut them to shape and drilled all the holes.
The driver side pad has a sleeve for the thru bolt and a square nut welded for the
mounting bolts.
The Hurst cars used the B-body rubber engine mounts so I guess they would
have pulled these perches out of a bin before they were welded to the B-body
K-frame. I don't have such a parts bin so I am doing it the hard way.
A thing worth noting is these are made to fit the B-body so some trimming will be required
to make them fit the A-body K-frame.
I don't have a break so I will also be bending these into shape in a vise with a torch
to make them bend easier and how I want them. I will try to find the time to bend these
up in the next couple days. I still have much sand blasting to do also. I stopped on the blasting
till some replacement lenses come in for my blasting hood. It is getting harder to see as the
lens gets etched.
K-frame I went to see a guy that was close by that hoards factory Hemi
stuff.
He doesn't sell parts but let me get some patterns off a loose B-body K-frame
he had from a Hemi car.
I took a fresh roll of masking tape and a xacto knife with me and covered the
mounting pads with several layers. Cut out all the holes and shapes carefully.
When I removed the tape I stuck it to some paper.
I now have a flat pattern that I can transfer to a plate of steel.
With the patterns traced to the steel I cut them to shape and drilled all the holes.
The driver side pad has a sleeve for the thru bolt and a square nut welded for the
mounting bolts.
The Hurst cars used the B-body rubber engine mounts so I guess they would
have pulled these perches out of a bin before they were welded to the B-body
K-frame. I don't have such a parts bin so I am doing it the hard way.
A thing worth noting is these are made to fit the B-body so some trimming will be required
to make them fit the A-body K-frame.
I don't have a break so I will also be bending these into shape in a vise with a torch
to make them bend easier and how I want them. I will try to find the time to bend these
up in the next couple days. I still have much sand blasting to do also. I stopped on the blasting
till some replacement lenses come in for my blasting hood. It is getting harder to see as the
lens gets etched.
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