Let's talk subs....

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Captainkirk

Captainkirk

Old School Mopar Warrior
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OK...I'm at the point where I need to install subframe connectors, if I'm gonna do it.
Right now, car is up on jackstands; no motor, K-frame or suspension installed.
All doors, hood, decklid close with perfect gaps.

I was considering these:

http://www.manciniracing.com/maabo11whba.html

.....seeing as how this will mostly be a street car with maybe only a few strip runs.

1) Are bolt-in's acceptable for this type of use? (yes, I realize welding is better)

2) Is it OK to bolt them up with the car on jacks, no motor, suspension and K frame IF all the doors and gaps are good?
 
I like to support the car from the control arms and the rear axle housing. No problems ever doing it that way.

I have not used them, but I like the looks of the US Car tool connectors. IMO there is no argument to be had that tying that much of the floor pan in does not ad strength. You'd pretty much have to be special ed not to see that.
 
RustyRatRod said:
I like to support the car from the control arms and the rear axle housing. No problems ever doing it that way.

I have not used them, but I like the looks of the US Car tool connectors. IMO there is no argument to be had that tying that much of the floor pan in does not ad strength. You'd pretty much have to be special ed not to see that.
Click to expand...


Who is this "Special Ed" guy?
People keep saying I remind them of him.
I hope he's cool.....

So lemme get this straight...you are recommending I put it all back together, then jack it up by the diff and control arms to put in the subs?
Just trying to clarify. I ain't the sharpest tack in the box, ya know...
 
I don't think reassembly is necessary. But IMO, it's best if supported by the suspension. Opinions vary and I'm sure somebody will be along to tell me how stupid I am but that's mine and I'm stickin wif all dat, yo. Had good success doin a lot of them like that.
 
RustyRatRod said:
I like to support the car from the control arms and the rear axle housing. No problems ever doing it that way.

I have not used them, but I like the looks of the US Car tool connectors. IMO there is no argument to be had that tying that much of the floor pan in does not ad strength. You'd pretty much have to be special ed not to see that.
Click to expand...

thats how i did mine yeah there was some trimming involved but not only do they seem like the strongest they also look the best IMO if you do a good enough trimming/welding job they can even look factory

but with your original question im sure the bolt in ones will suffice but if you've got a grinder and a welder i see no reason not to go with the us car tools ones
 
RustyRatRod said:
I don't think reassembly is necessary. But IMO, it's best if supported by the suspension.
Click to expand...

Here is a picture of the "suspension" as presently installed...

10527312954_7694e77aec_z.jpg


10527225884_b72cfd101c_z.jpg


See my dilemma?
 
Yeah well all that's your problem. lol
 
Just level the car on the jack stands. If all of the body gaps are good and the doors open and close well, you'll be fine.

Guys install frame connections while their cars are upside down on rotisserie's all the time so they can weld them in right side up. Which, by the way, beats the hell out of being underneath the thing you're welding on, been there, done that. Seems to me like if something was going to cause a terminal problem, welding in a set of connectors while the car is being loaded exactly opposite of "normal" would be it. And yet I still haven't heard of anyone welding in frame connectors and then not being able to close their doors etc...

Especially since you're bolting them in. As far as that goes, I would have them welded in. Bolting them in is going to be a temporary solution. As the car twists and flexes, the bolts will be stressed and in some cases just work larger holes in the frame and loosen up. The frame rails themselves aren't all that thick, just heavy gauge sheet metal, so there aren't a lot of reinforced areas to support a bolt with that kind of stress. Unless you weld in gussets and nets, but if you're going to do that...

Even if you just bolt them in now, you can take it down to your local exhaust shop and have them welded in after the car is assembled and road worthy.
 
Why do you want them?....or feel you need them?

I do not see any tubbing for bigger sticky tires....so, IMO, you do not have enough tire / traction to twist what you have.....tires will spin long before the body twists.

I know that isn't a popular view....but other than adding weight...I just do not see the need unless you have high HP ....a big sticky tire... and a stick shift or loose converter....or perhaps doing serious duty as a auto-x er

Money, time, and effort could be spent more wisely elsewhere.
 
HemiDenny said:
I know that isn't a popular view....but other than adding weight...I just do not see the need unless you have high HP ....a big sticky tire... and a stick shift or loose converter....or perhaps doing serious duty as a auto-x er

Money, time, and effort could be spent more wisely elsewhere.
Click to expand...

Sorry man, have to disagree. I added connectors to my old turd and it made it drive soooooo much better. No more twisting and turning on even road surfaces. I could tell the second I drove over the curb leaving the driveway that it was an improvement. I bought the bolt in MP connectors and paid a buddy $20 to weld them in. I still say it has been the best money I ever spent on the car!
 
I have driven street cars /street tires with and without the frames tied....the first time somewhere around 1976......no difference that I could tell what-so ever. Never had enough traction with a street tire OR slick on a street surface (too much dirt/pebbles) to cause any twisting /flexing....just tire spinning.

Of course, those were days BEFORE we dealt with any rust/ rot issues. Maybe now they are needed.

Your experience may vary.....this is just my experience and opinion.
 
I know in my case when I put them in, I noticed the difference as soon as I backed out of my driveway, way stiffer. Of coarse I intend to race mine, so I put them in.

But for 30 bucks and a little welding, why not?

CK, just build yer own, and save a hundred bucks! Put that hundred bucks somewhere else.
 
.....perhaps my rear ain't as sensative as yous' guys.....go figure??
 
HemiDenny said:
.....perhaps my rear ain't as sensative as yous' guys.....go figure??
Click to expand...

The HemiDenny we all know and love wouldn't say that about connectors.
So who are you, and what have you done with him?

Seriously though, I can hardly believe you feel that way about them after the difference they made in my own car.
 
HemiDenny said:
Of course, those were days BEFORE we dealt with any rust/ rot issues. Maybe now they are needed.
Click to expand...

I assure you, there is no rot in my floor pans or sub-frames. When I used to pick the car up on a frame rack, the front end would sag and the gaps would open up at the top. Now, I can put a jack behind a front tire and pick up three wheels!

I've been driving A bodies since 1976 too. This was my first car. We called it the Ruster. You're not the only old fart on here.

71Duster.jpg
 
Be as it may.....I just never felt the difference in the handling or my rear.

The reason I mentioned the rot is because ones without are few and far in between......and that stamped flood is an important part of the structure /unibody.

I still believed the tires spin waaaaaay before any torsional twist to the unibody.....and unless the car is rotted, I do not believe they twist as much as you think.

If they did....they would have twisted to junk a long time ago. I have never seen one put to pasture due to flex....rot /rust?...yes, flex....no
 
There is no rust, now. You see the pix.
I'm shooting for a 400HP smallblock build with a 4-speed/3.91 8-3/4, Denny. I was gonna put them in on the recommendation of others here...and it's now or never.
As far as welding goes...I would probably bolt them in now and drive to a welder once it's back up and running.
Although, now Denny has me wondering if I need them at all?
 
I have a set for my Duster. (If I ever get to it) My plans are far a stroked 360, 4 speed, .373's. I've always subscribed to the theory of, better to have it and not need it, than need it and not have it.
 
BrianT said:
I assure you, there is no rot in my floor pans or sub-frames. When I used to pick the car up on a frame rack, the front end would sag and the gaps would open up at the top. Now, I can put a jack behind a front tire and pick up three wheels!

I've been driving A bodies since 1976 too. This was my first car. We called it the Ruster. You're not the only old fart on here.

71Duster.jpg
Click to expand...

It is nice to have company.

You sure about that three tire jack thing?....sounds like a Houdini thing to me.

:)
 
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