Long valves on W2's with .600 lift?

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Wyrmrider said:
well you have the best iron heads
old guys chant stealth and guile beat wild and crazy
do they overpower the track off the corner
let's hope they buy their cams from the bottom of the page
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Off corner traction is the biggest issue I hear about... the chassis technology is ever changing. I'm updating my 2003 chassis to 2019 standards (for the most parts). The parts I bought two years ago to update the car are already obsolete!

The 15 car you see leading the way is our local hotshot... very fast at home. Mid pack when the traveling series show up. He builds his own motors with the machining being done by a local engine guy. New chassis two years ago...
 
so you can't use any more power just off the corner but from there on
never worked for my customers to build for the last little bit before shutting down for the next cornerdrag race cams need not apply
and I can't see you changing springs every week
I think to win you need enough power and win is in the chassis
 
Krooser said:
Just looking thru some cam lobe lists... what do ya think of THIS one? Plenty of lift...might be bit much on the .050 duration.


  • Advance:
    • 4
  • Application:
    • 1964-1992 "A" CHRYSLER 273,340,360
      ,
    • 1967-1991 "A" CHRYSLER 318
  • Brand:
    • Erson Cams
  • Cam Type:
    • MECHANICAL FLAT TAPPET
  • CID:
    • 340
      ,
    • 273
      ,
    • 318
      ,
    • 360
  • Duration @ .050:
    • 260/268
  • Duration Advertised:
    • 286/294
  • Grind Number:
    • R-286-5A
  • Gross Lift:
    • .675/.645
  • Lobe Center:
    • 106
  • Make:
    • CHRYSLER
  • Part Name:
    • Engine Camshaft
  • RPM Range:
    • 4500-7600
  • Valve Lash:
    • .026/.028
Click to expand...

Grind # R-286-5A

You can call them to confirm...... but.......It’s a roller.
 
PRH said:
Grind # R-286-5A

You can call them to confirm...... but.......It’s a roller.
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Sez it's a flat tappet. I can't afford to bush the lifter bores and can't afford $900.00 lifters so I have to stay FT. Plus the engine combo I will run does not allow rollers but nobody checks. The .903 lifters negate much of the advantages of a roller.
 
Trust me....... call them on the cam.

R-286 is a roller grind.

It’s a typo that it says flat tappet in the Mopar listing.
When you see that grind for the other apps they say roller.

Erson-PBM-World-B2C | E119906 - Erson Cams - CHEV V8 265-400 R-286-5

Not to mention you’re not going to have .450 lobe lift with a flat tappet cam that’s [email protected].

And then....... if you click on the parts they recommend to go with the cam...... it’s roller lifters and springs.

Plus...... solid flat tappet cams aren’t usually $380.

F5F2B32A-6EAB-4F2E-B89B-DCC06417756A.png
 
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650...did 575 when first built in '93.
Click to expand...

Are you making significant changes to get the additional 75hp out of it?

I don’t think lighter valves and a new cam are going to get you there.
 
Different pistons, lighter, more compression= whatever
heads are new w2 sse flow above
I think we need to concentrate on the 4-6000 range even if we give up a little at 7000 plan on 7200 max for durability
rollers are illegal and I bet they would check if we started winning
I do not see those high hp builds staying together at the rpm they have to run to get there
are those the different rule set aluminum block motors? cheves? clevelands?
 
PRH said:
Trust me....... call them on the cam.

R-286 is a roller grind.

It’s a typo that it says flat tappet in the Mopar listing.
When you see that grind for the other apps they say roller.

Erson-PBM-World-B2C | E119906 - Erson Cams - CHEV V8 265-400 R-286-5

Not to mention you’re not going to have .450 lobe lift which a flat tappet cam that’s [email protected].

And then....... if you click on the parts they recommend to go with the cam...... it’s roller lifters and springs.

Plus...... solid flat tappet cams aren’t usually $380.

View attachment 1715466812
Click to expand...
 
Sounds right... Russ Yoder who kinda runs the cam dept gave me the name of their Mopar cam guy a few years ago. I guess if I went with an Erson I'd talk to him.

I'm about to violate my own rule of only talking to no more than 3 cam outfits... not happy about that.

Since I have been more than happy with Mike Jones he's my first choice. Howard's would seem to be #2 since they are local to me. Third would be Crower since this engine ran great on all Crower cam parts when new.
 
Crower has some nice cams as well as custom grinding available.
 
Thanks for chiming in PRH
good question
what do you think of those flows?
I do not see that much was left on the table
one idea was to keep the velocity up
IDK if valves have been bought yet
Krooser is looking at those 1.4 dia beehives as the heads are cut for that dia and that saves locators
installed 1.9-or so- so is going to take a long valve
stands to match valve length
 
PRH said:
Old combo wasn’t w2’s?

Or, these are just different w2’s?
Click to expand...
Bought the complete engine with four broken rods . I'm reusing everything except pistons, cam, lifters and rods. W2 heads, M1 intake, 70's vintage block (needed one sleeve after the blow up), repaired the billet 3.79 crank.

I'm lightening the valve train. The PO never ran this engine over 6k. I'm hoping for a reliable 7200.
 
I guess I’m just lost.

You bought the complete blown up engine before racing it in 1993?
 
PRH said:
I guess I’m just lost.

You bought the complete blown up engine before racing it in 1993?
Click to expand...
Here's the story.

Jerry D. built a WISSOTA modified in 1993 for the '94 season. He was an experienced racer but this was a new locally built Cobra chassis. He had Baxter Engines in Eau Claire, WI build this 360. Had Ross pistons, 340 rods, Crower valve train (Ti retainers and locks and springs) with Manley stainless valves (3/8). Billet Mopar Performance crank. Nicely ported W-2 econo heads with Mopar adj. rockers. M-1 intake. 780 methanol carb. MSD dizzy. Made 575 HP. Cost $15K.

Jerry was pretty conservative with his stuff... he kept the rev's down to save the motor. Ran the car on the big clay half mile at Marshfield, WI. Ran about 9-10 nights for two seasons.

Following the '95 racing season the track owner paved the speedway. Jerry didn't like pavement racing. Jerry sold his car and put the engine under his work bench hoping to use it in a future hot rod project.

Fast forward to 2004. Jerry's "friend" also ran Mopar stuff and he needed an engine to run the late season specials. His engine was toast so Jerry loaned this engine to his friend.

First night the engine ate the camshaft. It went back to the engine shop to be freshened. The next race the temp's were cold. The guy didn't warm the engine before hitting the track. He said he felt it tightening up but thought it was an ignition issue. Then it seized up on the #1/#8 rod journal...broke three pistons and damaged four rods.

Jerry took it back and put it back under the bench. He decided to clean out his shop three years ago and I answered his ad on Craig's List. I bought it when I saw it... had to make payments until I could pay it off. Drug it home two months later. Been slowly getting it back together since.

When I took it apart I found the oil to be the stickiest, thickest stuff I had ever seen. Jerry ran 10W30 Valvoline racing oil. This must have been 50w with three cans of STP added. There were droplets of oil hanging on the rod bolts for 13 years that had not dripped off the rods. Thick.

I took the block back to the original builder to have it repaired. I did have my LOCAL shop redo the cranks.

The crank's has been welded and repaired. The block has been sleeved and decked and is in the shop waiting for RaceTec to ship the new pistons so it can be bored to +.040 and be skim decked. I bought eight 340 rods from a FABO member and had them resized and get the good ARP bolts. The heads I'm slowly working on...likely I'll replace the valve guides with 11/32 or 5/16 pieces and buy new valves. The valve job looks like new so I'll just lap in the new valves.

I got a new set of T&D rockers with the engine and I plan on using those.

That's where we are at.
 
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Okay..... got it.

One note about your plans with the valves.
It’s standard practice to touch up(at the least) the valve seats after installing new guides....... which you’ll be doing to go from the 3/8 to either 11/32 or 5/16 valves.

I’m sure you’ll have adequate installed height for flat tappet springs using whatever valve length is a good fit for the new rockers.
Get the valves the correct length for decent geometry...... and then choose springs based on the lobe design, valve lift, operating range, and installed height.
Unless....... you determine that the valve length that gives you the best geometry...... ends up providing rather short installed heights(like under 1.800).
 
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These heads had 5.140 valves as spec'd by Mopar and that's what I'm staying with. I'm looking at springs that will have the 1.950-ish installed height which is what is on the heads now. The current springs are 140 seat/400 open. After seeing spintron videos I have decided to go with the beehives as they are more stable at higher rpm.

The rocker stands were shimmed to get the sweep correct and I'll do the same with the new set-up
 
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PRH said:
Are you making significant changes to get the additional 75hp out of it?

I don’t think lighter valves and a new cam are going to get you there.
Click to expand...

Cam and carb should help. So will the tune.

While I do have an older BG alky carb that is similar to the old carb, now I have an 850 which will work better (I think) at the higher RPM's. Funny how the local guys all claim to be running a 750 then when they start selling their older stuff they are mostly 850's or 900's.

The cam that was in here originally was mild. The replacement that broke in a zillion pieces when the engine blew was an obsolete Purple shaft Mopar.

Dyno's are not a dime a dozen around here but there's one near the shop where my block is. The same one that dyno'd the engine in '93. It's likely I'll get it dyno'd there.

I'm going into this realizing that I am not going to be a factor in winning on Saturday night. But running mid pack will be a victory. I'll be the only Mopar in a sea of Chevy's and the occasional Ford. 800 HP is not uncommon. Lots to learn as I've been out of the saddle for a long time.

I'm spending about $40,000 less on my equipment than the top runners. A new rolling chassis is $20-30,000. Motors? Some are $40K.

I got my bare chassis for $200.00 from a guy who quit racing and parted out his car. Ran parts of three season and was replaced. Good, solid piece not much different than the current stuff. I've been buying good used parts for a couple years...hubs, steering rack, quickchange, brakes, control arms. I've rebuilt one steering rack and am sending the other out for new bushing and a line hone soon. Bought a box of new Heim ends for $50.00...I think there were about 30 in the lot. Just trying to buy smart and pay cash for everything as I go. Don't have a credit card.

I'm updating the front x-member and the rear four bar brackets and raising the right frame rail to keep it off the track. These newer set-ups pin the RF down so the old stuff drags and puts you in the wall.

Technology has changed... the LR springs used to be a 250 or 275# rating. Now it's an 80#... just enough to keep the frame from dragging in the pits. Once you're on the hammer that LR spring is unloaded. The RF used to be 450#-#550#. Now it's a 250 or 275 main spring with a stacked lighter spring so when the car hits the corner the RF can collapse and let the shock pin it down and help it steer. The LR hikes up 14-16" which actually loads that wheel because the top 4 bar on that wheel pretty much becomes a hammer and drives the tire into the track. They look goofy as hell until you get used to it.
 
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Wyrmrider said:
Different pistons, lighter, more compression= whatever
heads are new w2 sse flow above
I think we need to concentrate on the 4-6000 range even if we give up a little at 7000 plan on 7200 max for durability
rollers are illegal and I bet they would check if we started winning
I do not see those high hp builds staying together at the rpm they have to run to get there
are those the different rule set aluminum block motors? cheves? clevelands?
Click to expand...
The Ford's are Yates style RY45's...C3 or D3 heads. Not sure but I think some Chevies are wide bore blocks. Mostly Brodix I would imagine. Not sure what heads they run but they have all the good parts.

A restictor plate and a weight penalty are all they have to slow em down which doesn't work.

The budget guys run the Brodix spec head which get ported even though they are supposed to run as cast.
 
Stealth porting like in the 2bbl classes some firms made a living out of those
I would not try and run that much hp in a stock 360 block so keeping the revs down works
You running 340 style rods? should work at that rpm
Back in the day we had some HD 6 cyl long rods... bet they'd love those
Which rules? the ones I looked at banned W2 another W7s
old chevy chassis looks like the roll cage has to do all the work
let me know what Mike says
see he needs to order a core and do we do rough grind- Heat treat- final grind
or just grind the sucker and then maybe nitride I'll call him whenever
and what he thinks of the spring choice
I've never worked with spintron with those springs but they should work better than duals with less spring pressure
I saw one rule that limited spring diameter...
My old theory was that springs are like wound up torsion bars
and that a longer bigger spring gave a longer bar so less twist per inch of wire
which I always felt was good
Now I see running closer to coil bind with the standard springs which I never did
so mayabe I was wrong running the tall big duals
which we did for the above reason and because you had to to get any lift without coil bind or cutting deep pockets
cheers
 
Wyrmrider said:
Stealth porting like in the 2bbl classes some firms made a living out of those
I would not try and run that much hp in a stock 360 block so keeping the revs down works
You running 340 style rods? should work at that rpm
Back in the day we had some HD 6 cyl long rods... bet they'd love those
Which rules? the ones I looked at banned W2 another W7s
old chevy chassis looks like the roll cage has to do all the work
let me know what Mike says
see he needs to order a core and do we do rough grind- Heat treat- final grind
or just grind the sucker and then maybe nitride I'll call him whenever
and what he thinks of the spring choice
I've never worked with spintron with those springs but they should work better than duals with less spring pressure
I saw one rule that limited spring diameter...
My old theory was that springs are like wound up torsion bars
and that a longer bigger spring gave a longer bar so less twist per inch of wire
which I always felt was good
Now I see running closer to coil bind with the standard springs which I never did
so mayabe I was wrong running the tall big duals
which we did for the above reason and because you had to to get any lift without coil bind or cutting deep pockets
cheers
Click to expand...
The open engines that rule are basically run what ya bring with a single 4 and 410 cubes. I get a 100# weight break for the engine style (IMCA). 2350# vs 2250#.
 
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