[WANTED] Lower Ball Joint bolts needed for K-H setup
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daves66valiant
68 Dart 340/727:66 Signet Vert 340/5spd: 68 D100
Hard-to-Find Fastener 014973254339 Grade 8 Fine Hex Cap Screws, 9/16-18 x 3, Piece-5
Amazon
You need the nuts as well. You’ll need to round off the heads as well.
Or just go to a fastener shop.
Amazon
You need the nuts as well. You’ll need to round off the heads as well.
Or just go to a fastener shop.
65-72 Kelsey Hayes, 4 piston caliper disc brake systems, DO NOT use any Nuts to attach the ball joint to the spindle.
They just thread onto the spindle with 9/16 bolts.
But i know 3 inch bolts are too long in length.
I forget the proper length of the bolts, as it's now going on 3 years time since i rebuilt my last set up.
Hardware store, grade 8 items.
mopower440
Well-Known Member
Thanks guys, The problem will be finding bolts that are threaded all the way without that shoulder, otherwise I will have to use nuts..
mopower440
Well-Known Member
Mike, where are you seeing them on the PST site? Cant find them..
daves66valiant
68 Dart 340/727:66 Signet Vert 340/5spd: 68 D100
Good to know.
Zero clearance issues with lock nuts on my k/h setup. Maybe I’ll switch to 2-1/2” later since you “DO NOT” need nuts.
Not really a problem when you go to the fastener counter and tell them what you need.
Zero clearance issues with lock nuts on my k/h setup. Maybe I’ll switch to 2-1/2” later since you “DO NOT” need nuts.
Not really a problem when you go to the fastener counter and tell them what you need.
I know you purchased $270.00 worth of parts from me already, but i just have to say this, not to detract from you asking questions or not, but you sure seem to like to make mountains out of mole hills, in your quest of doing this disc brake work.
There is NO NEED to use nuts on those Disc brake spindles of yours.
They fasten, bolt, right down into the threads in the spindle, without the need for any nuts.
Lots of people are feeding you lots of miss information on the forums that you have been posting.
Nuts and bolts are used on the BIG bolt pattern 73-76 A body disc brakes, and the B & E body brakes, and they use 5/8 inch nuts and bolts.
I'm pretty sure if you tried a longer bolt with nut on your spindle, ball joint arrangement, your going to wind up with an interference problem with longer bolts and nuts whacking into the lower control arm, on tighter turns, or brake rotor interference.
Lots of times i have been giving you a reply as i have been hanging around for awhile, before i go and do my errands around the city, before stores open for their business hours, or the local post office at 10 o'clock.
ACE Hardware carries lots of odd nuts and bolts, but if they are in quarter inch lengths, then ya, those are hard to come across, as most bolts are stocked in half inch length's.
Look online at McMaster Carr, or GOOGLE bolt sellers, vendors, over the internet.
That's how i found out lots of this stuff, ages ago.
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mopower440
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sorry, I figured I would piss someone off by asking questions. Sorry I don't know as much as some of you. Ill try to stay away as much as I can.
Sorry, I didn't look. I am surprised they don't have them.
I'me not here to get you mad at me, but in another reply i told you to go measure for the length of bolts that your going to be needing.
Can't you do something like that for yourself? and figure something simple like that, and you wouldn't have to post, and then hopefully get replies.
I like to help when i can, but my attention span on things just isn't there anymore, in my old age, so i think I'm going to bow out from now on.
Now when it comes to computers, I'm a nerd, so i ask about problems with them, when they occur, as i didn't even own a computer till i was in my later 40's in old age.
This suspension, and brake, stuff i have been into since the later 1970's, so i figure i know what I'm up to, as I'm not a rookie in this line of auto maintenance.
Good luck to you, whenever you get to the put it back together stage.
mopower440
Well-Known Member
Jim, i am not mad at you but i got the feeling that you were getting mad at me..Hell, i was just born in the 70's, so i need help from guys like you that HAVE been doing this for so long, thats why i post on here. Yes, i can measure the length of the bolts, but thats not what i was asking, im asking about the thread type and all, and hoping that someone did know of a source that had the correct bolt that i could order being i have to work all the time and dont have hardly any time for this stuff anymore. If the car wasnt to the point of being dangerous, i wouldnt even be messing with the front end due to not having time to do it, but the ball joints were about to fall out of it, not to mention the control arms bushings on the uppers. If i thought you were a rookie at this, i sure wouldnt have bought those arms from you..I happen to trust you and your work a LOT! Again, i only posted hoping to actually be pointed to a vendor that has them as i dont have much time to go searching around and any time ive needed bolts before, all i can seem to find around here are the bolts that are not threaded all the way. I DO know of a bolt specialty store i can send the driver at work to, but i will have to have the exact dimensions i need wrote down for him to take to them to see if they have it. I would appreciate it if you did NOT bow out like you said, i appreciate your advice more than you will ever know! Just please be patient with me on this stuff. The 2 things ive never fooled much with is front ends and transmissions. Ive always been terrified of torsion bars, but after asking a lot of questions on here, i did it and see it wasnt bad at all except for cranking my but off on the ratchet 1000 times to release the tension haha!
Well here are the OEM fasteners I have in all the spindles here. The ball joints bolts you can get from fastenal there are no nuts. 1 3/4 long 9/16- 20 thread.
The caliper bolts have to be made The shoulder is .460 the threads are 7/16. My son said he makes them using 12mm bolt with a 1 3/4 long shoulder. he turns it in the lathe and re-threads it to 7/16 thread so it is left with a 7/8 shoulder. You can not use a 7/16 bolt. Common sense shows it won't be correct. .030 is a lot of slop I wouldn't want on my caliper fasteners. The caliper bolts also get a hardened metric washer found on omni head bolts. The caliper bolts are special shoulder bolts that can be made very easy with a metric 12mm.
The caliper bolts have to be made The shoulder is .460 the threads are 7/16. My son said he makes them using 12mm bolt with a 1 3/4 long shoulder. he turns it in the lathe and re-threads it to 7/16 thread so it is left with a 7/8 shoulder. You can not use a 7/16 bolt. Common sense shows it won't be correct. .030 is a lot of slop I wouldn't want on my caliper fasteners. The caliper bolts also get a hardened metric washer found on omni head bolts. The caliper bolts are special shoulder bolts that can be made very easy with a metric 12mm.
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That should be 9/16 x 18 Fine thread Pitch.
And 1 3/4 inch bolt length.
You did a miss type on measurements, in your reply, that i need to correct you on, and fine thread pitch.
Now as far as caliper to spindle bolts go, the OP hasn't said anything about needing them, wanting them, so i assume he has all 4 of them.
At one time, for a long time, i thought those factory caliper mount bolts absolutely had to be used.
But in the real world, you don't have to use them.
Regular 7/16, Grade 8, works just fine.
This had been discussed, written about, hashed out, numerous times in the past.
In the past, i have rebuilt, put back into service 32 of these 65-72 Kelsey Hayes, 4 piston, disc brake systems.
Sometimes they were missing one, two, three, or maybe, all 4 of the factory type bolts, so i just used McMaster Carr store bought bolts.
In all the decades that i was doing this rebuilding NOBODY, has ever got back to me telling me there was any kind of problem with caliper mounting using regular bolts.
At one time a guy up in Canada was reproducing them for awhile, put after he ran a batch of them off, it quickly came to an end, after they sold off.
Well, here i go again, and ran off my 2 cents worth on the subject at hand.
And 1 3/4 inch bolt length.
You did a miss type on measurements, in your reply, that i need to correct you on, and fine thread pitch.
Now as far as caliper to spindle bolts go, the OP hasn't said anything about needing them, wanting them, so i assume he has all 4 of them.
At one time, for a long time, i thought those factory caliper mount bolts absolutely had to be used.
But in the real world, you don't have to use them.
Regular 7/16, Grade 8, works just fine.
This had been discussed, written about, hashed out, numerous times in the past.
In the past, i have rebuilt, put back into service 32 of these 65-72 Kelsey Hayes, 4 piston, disc brake systems.
Sometimes they were missing one, two, three, or maybe, all 4 of the factory type bolts, so i just used McMaster Carr store bought bolts.
In all the decades that i was doing this rebuilding NOBODY, has ever got back to me telling me there was any kind of problem with caliper mounting using regular bolts.
At one time a guy up in Canada was reproducing them for awhile, put after he ran a batch of them off, it quickly came to an end, after they sold off.
Well, here i go again, and ran off my 2 cents worth on the subject at hand.
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mopower440
Well-Known Member
Thank you Jim and all who have helped! This helps greatly!!
I just always had them . I saw they were a special bolt and more than likely was that way for a reason. It may be OK but you would never sell it to me. Check how far it can move before tightening . Where would the correct position be? I'll make them if I have to.
Well, in your case it appears that you have access to a metal lathe, and have someone that has machine shop knowledge.
That's fine and dandy, but i will bet you a dollar to a rolling doughnut, that 99% of car enthusiasts don't.
So then, what are you going to do, if factory style bolts are unobtanium, hens teeth, dinosaur eggs, your going to use plain old, grade 8 bolts to put the system back together, and make the vehicle driveable again.
There's lots of things some automotive "engineer" thought of, but things work just as well without special items.
My background before the Air Force was in machine shop, tool shop, apprenticeship as a machinist, having gone to trade school, high school, back in the 1960's, so I'm not a rookie in that line of work also.
From 7 or 8 years ago.
Kelsey Hayes caliper bolts
Not to come across as a jerk, know it all, azz h@#e here, why don't you go into a sideline business and reproduce them, and try and sell them to make a profit for your time, materials, advertising, shipping, everything that it would take.
Just wouldn't be worth it.
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mopower440
Well-Known Member
I had some bolts picked up from the bolt specialty place today. I wrote down 9/16-20 fine thread, he sent back 9/16-18 fine thread, he said fine thread is 18 and not 20, I will admit to you, I do NOT know bolt threads and pitches worth a darn, so im asking, is it indeed supposed to be 9/16-18 fine thread or was it supposed to be 9/16-20 with another thread pitch? I am at work so haven't been home to try them, that's why im asking.
Thanks!
Thanks!
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Oops, looks like oldmanmopar gave wrong thread pitch in his reply and i didn't pick up on that error.
Correct thread pitch for fine threads is 9/16 x 18.
You have the correct size then.
See what i mean about getting improper advice, or information.
My bad too, in not picking up that miss information.
Happy wrenching.
pishta
I know I'm right....
I would not try and make these long shoulder bolts on a lathe unless you are using some friggin tough metal. Grade 8 bolts are 150K psi and the threads are rolled so they are in essence "forged" threads as opposed to lathe cut threads that are weaker as there is no work hardening. IIRC the shank provided a stress riser free, high tolerance fit of the cap screw.
65dartman posted these pics of round heads and full shoulder cap screws.
65dartman posted these pics of round heads and full shoulder cap screws.
mopower440
Well-Known Member
Thanks Jim, I got some good looking bolts ready to go then!
mopower440
Well-Known Member
Jim, remember i needed one bleeder screw for one of the front calipers and you said to get it at any parts store? I got a pair from oreillys. They screwed right in and all but will not seal..I see the problem, the pointed tip that goes down into the caliper that has the hole in the side of it is shorter than the factory one. I got these specifically for the disc brake car and all. Any ideas on where else may have the correct one?
Never had a problem in getting bleeder screws before at a parts store, or taking bleeder screws off other Mopar calipers on cars at the wrecking yards.
Take over your other known good one, and match it up.
Take over your other known good one, and match it up.
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