LSx Valiant Build. Take a look inside...

Discussion in 'Members Restorations' started by LS1 ACE, Aug 22, 2012.

  1. inkjunkie

    inkjunkie Well-Known Member

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    And if you don't have the $$ to spend on a Mopar motor but can afford an LS due to circumstances beyond your control?
    I bought our Dart when I was still employed. Unfortunately life changed. My wife got hurt at the USPS. The USPS changed their policy towards injured employees. Went from we will accommodate you to we have nothing for you so there is the door...as long as you have an open workers comp claim OWCP will pay you...sure they will. Know of several folks that bought into this only to not see a dime for 7 years. Other option is disability. I struggled with my mental crap since I was 15. Head doc finally had enough of my rants...labeled me as a hazard to self and others...end of postal career. Both on disability. Income got cut by 50%. Either the car sits...or I put a much more affordable LS in it.
    I bought the Dart because I like the lines of it...plain and simple. Perhaps my understanding of a "hot rod" is just wrong....take a car that you like and build it to your liking....seems pretty simple to me...but what the hell do I know?
     
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    • replicaracer43

      replicaracer43 Old school member

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      Now I am gonna go ahead and just admit, I'm one of the guys who isn't into brand swapping....but each to his own. My question is what's the average cost to do this swap? I can't hardly see any cost savings myself.
       
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      • cuda620

        cuda620 Well-Known Member

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        Same situation kinda. I have a fully built and carbed LS3 with maybe 5k miles on the stand ready to go. I have 2 440's a 400 and a 360. All need built. I bought my 67 cuda cause I had a 68 some 30 years ago. It's nice and I like it 318/904, but I have this spare engine sitting around to use OR I spend money to build my mopar engines. LS is aluminum a 585 hp... So....guess what I'm doing? Kinda gotta. I've done these swaps before. If you go carbed with msd ignition controllers it's not expensive at all and easier to tune imo.
         
      • replicaracer43

        replicaracer43 Old school member

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        Still doesn't address my cost question. I'm interested to know the breakdown of the costs involved in the ls swap into a mopar..
         
      • txstang84

        txstang84 Well-Known Member

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        You have to make an honest attempt at an apples to apples comparison, so start with a /6 car...

        Price the following:
        running serviceable 5.7/trans assembly with all accessories and electronics

        Unless you have the time and patience to do the wiring yourself, consider how much it will cost to modify the factory harness to run in your vehicle

        Include appropriate driveshaft modifications for your given choice because I somehow doubt any of the factory lengths/splines are correctly suited to just drop in a 3G/trans combo and go, and even if it did, unless you just had it rebuilt, the factory u joints are probably not in the best shape

        Chassis and sheet metal mods--be honest here, unless you plan to use a new hemi and slap a TF behind it, you're going to modify the floors somehow, even if you're a competent fabricator, you're paying for materials and time--consider some people have to pay for this because they don't have the tools/time/talent. This also includes any T-bar X member mods, engine mounts, etc

        Include any upgrades you plan to make during the swap: Cooling system, headers/exhaust, suspension/steering, induction, ignition, etc--because most of us aren't happy just slapping shit together as issued, nor do most of us like to reuse parts unless they were recently installed/modified

        Take that number and add $500 for piddly shit like gaskets, sealants, petroleum/oil/lubricants, coolant, the stuff you broke/forgot about/needed during the swap.

        Now do the same for a 5.3/4L60 swap taking into consideration many of the swap parts are WIDELY available and your Google-foo need not be strong to find what you need, grasshoppa.

        If you're starting from ground zero, like many of these folks are, the LS will be the victor--despite the minor fab and parts swapping involved.

        Then, as a third option, consider a 360/904 or 727 or even the OD trans swap...how much would you spend for a fully serviceable engine/trans that equaled the power of either option above...after you take a long hard look at the money and work involved, while it may not be your cup of tea, it's hard to argue the swap with those who just want miles and smiles for not as much money and are willing to sacrifice some brand loyalty.

        I've had to reconcile for a long time, being a Mustang fan, some people want a cheap light platform and an easily modified engine that responds very well to aftemarket mods...can't tell you how much SBC/BBC/LS swapped Foxes I've seen.
         
      • replicaracer43

        replicaracer43 Old school member

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        Good post, but not really helpful. The main thing I hear mentioned all the time about ls swaps is how it's cheaper....so I'd like to see a actual price breakdown. And let's keep it to the average enthusiasts level, like boneyard stock 5.3s for instance
         
      • cuda620

        cuda620 Well-Known Member

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        Sorry man, not your accountant. But intake,250 to 450. MSDController 350, electric fuel pump 80 carb, how much you wanna spend? I used an 800 cfm q jet on some of mine. Lookup your parts. Wiring isn't bad if you do it yourself. Not necessary if you don't go injection. LS engine and mods if necessary are MUCH less expensive than any mopar. I've done both. Do your research.Btw,how do you think a 400 LB engine handles in an A body? Oh and swap headers maybe as low as 350.00 ceramic coated. Parts easily available 2000 miles from home.
         
        Last edited: Jul 20, 2017
      • cuda620

        cuda620 Well-Known Member

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        Yes, fox body LS is a very fast and reliable platform. Very nice.
         
      • txstang84

        txstang84 Well-Known Member

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        It's not helpful because you didn't actually do the research I mentioned above. I didn't say, go ask someone to find out how much it costs, I said "price the following:"

        That's a directive, not a suggestion.

        That being said, cuda is correct, parts are cheap.

        I'll give you an idea. You're selling a whole car for $5500, which is a good deal for all the pieces, BUT, if you want to just go get a 5.7/trans package, with accessories and electronics, you might spend over $2000.

        A serviceable 5.3/4L60E can be had, commonly around the US, for $1000 or less. The factory manifolds can often be used, unless you need later model Camaro versions, in which case people basically throw them away for a little bit of nothing.

        Modifying the wire harness/PCM is pretty standard and depending on who you go through, varies between $250-$1000. For that cost, you get a completely modified--to your needs--harness that only requires a handful of wires to be connected...go try to find someone who'll do that for you with a Hemi conversion. The programming alone can cost more than that.

        Fuel system...Once again, we come to the options of plumbing it yourself or buying the kits/components growing in popularity to retrofit high pressure EFI systems.

        Driveline mods are pretty easy and pretty standard...just like chassis suspension...

        Overarching point is, whatever extra cost people suppose exists, are often either not there or offset significantly by the fact that the LS parts and platforms are cheap as dog food.
         
      • inkjunkie

        inkjunkie Well-Known Member

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        Haven't done a parts list but...unported ls3 heads flow 300CFM, out of the box. https://m.summitracing.com/parts/nal-12629063
        For a price of $1030. Can use factory rockers for everything but the over the top builds. How much will it cost to get a set of SBM heads to flow that?
        Pick up a brand new LS3 intake, injectors, rails and throttle body for $793
        https://m.summitracing.com/parts/nal-12674428
        How much will a complete new efi setup for a Mopar cost?
        How about just a simple crate motor? 525hp LS3, complete with a aftermarket pan that makes swaps a bit easier...19301360 - Pace Prepped & Primed LS3 525HP Engine with Installed Holley Swap Oil Pan. for $8500.
        And the necessary
        harness https://m.summitracing.com/parts/na...HFlUU85BoC_R0QAvD_BwE&ibanner=MobileSwitchYes for $1200.
        Can you get a brand new all aluminum 525 EFI Mopar motor, complete the with drive by wire throttle body and ecu for $9700?
        Boost your thing? Go get damn near any wrecking yard LS, pick up an Ebay China turbo/waste gate/pop off valve and make 1000+ hp. Guy that built this now lives Stock GM LS Engine - Big Bang Theory - Hot Rod Magazine
        30 miles from me.
        Meeting a guy Friday night, junkyard 5.3, head studs, factory rings loosened up a bit...3700 pound Chevelle...8.8 at over 150mph.
        Think any stock bottom end Mopar will ever run in the 7's?
        Fastest Stock Bottom End 5.3 In The World Goes 7.81
        How much $$ would it take to build a forced induction SBM to run that quick? Would any of the factory blocks even stand to that much boost?
         
      • replicaracer43

        replicaracer43 Old school member

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        I was talking from a typical week end hot rodder kind of build...not mega power, all out 8 second cars, couldn't care less about builds like that. When I think cost effective swap, I think about a junkyard 5.9 magnum, I can see allready that a LS swap is significantly more expensive. My question has been answered, yall carry on.
         
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        • cuda620

          cuda620 Well-Known Member

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          Correct! I saw the article. It ended up still surviving multiple pulls. They thought it was a 5.3 but discovered it was a 4.8. Made over 1000hp with like 23 psi of boost on the stock junkyard bottom end! Do any of that with a big or small block mopar. Trickflows, new high tech heads for a big block mopar are 2k per pair and can't flow what a stock LS head flows. Mopar recommends cross drilling mains over 700hp, LS is stock that way. New hemis??? Way a ton. Still can't compare. Sorry, truth hurts... And this from a mopar guy. Just not mopar or no car???
           
          Last edited: Jul 20, 2017
        • inkjunkie

          inkjunkie Well-Known Member

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          Bit curious about something....in particular the folks who spew their hatred of folks that do this type of stuff.....how many of you are of the "don't have anything nice to say don't say anything at all" crew? Just wondering....
          Reason I am curious is because if I went into a thread and was critical about a Panther Pink car...or a generic butt stripe sticker....I am sure some of you would start with that "don't have anything nice to say don't say anything at all" line....pretty sure that is called a hypocrit..,
           
        • 6pk2goDemon

          6pk2goDemon Mopar Mod Staff Member FABO Gold Member

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          @inkjunkie

          This thread has already been cleaned up again. Let's just move forward & leave the negativity behind us....

          Thanks
           
        • cuda620

          cuda620 Well-Known Member

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          Exactly!
           
        • boosted

          boosted Life Needs Air

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          What is the best way to do motor mounts for a LS swap into a 67? Make the plates and drill them for the block and factory motor mounts and bolt them in or does anyone make some for sale? I got to looking today and the 1800 for just the wire harness on a new Hemi is way out of the question. I can spend that on a turbo setup for the ls and it will be fast.
           
        • moparmat2000

          moparmat2000 FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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          Not sure how you would go about making a set of mounts. An idea like you mentioned making mount plates to fit the engine, set the rubber mounts in the frame, then set the engine and trans in the position they will be, and build the mount pieces you need to fill the gap in between if that make sense.
           
        • YoungDart75

          YoungDart75 Well-Known Member

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          Look up ls swapped mopars on Facebook or shoot me a message. Dave and i started that page. I'm finishing up my swap running now.
           
        • boosted

          boosted Life Needs Air

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          Sent in my request to join and than you. It is from Stephen Waters