M/C 15/16 bore

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Cuda 1964

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Hi everyone
I have a 64 barracuda that has been converted to dis/drum brakes
It seems that I can not get the front brakes to lock up the M/C is a 11/8 bore would a 15/16 bore M/C give me more pressure to the front and yes I do do have an adjustable brake valve
Thanks for your info and help in advance
 
Hi everyone
I have a 64 barracuda that has been converted to dis/drum brakes
It seems that I can not get the front brakes to lock up the M/C is a 11/8 bore would a 15/16 bore M/C give me more pressure to the front and yes I do do have an adjustable brake valve
Thanks for your info and help in advance

A 15/16" master cylinder would increase the line pressure vs a 1.125" master cylinder, yes. It would also lengthen the pedal stroke to achieve that pressure.

Larger bore M/C= higher, harder pedal with less line pressure
Smaller bore M/C= longer pedal travel with more line pressure

There could be a whole host of other problems that could cause the front brakes not to lock up though, so you should definitely investigate other possibilities first. Contaminated brake pads, for example, can cause the same thing and are a much cheaper fix. Heck even brand new, not bedded in pads can cause that issue and they just need miles. Could also be issues with the calipers themselves, the brake lines, the caliper brackets, etc, etc.

What conversion was used? What disk brakes are on the car?
 
A pirate jack kit was installed for 73 up including M/C and calipers

Ok, well those are pretty simple. If they're brand new consider that the pads may not be bedded in yet, which does make a significant difference.

Other things to look at would be to check that you're getting good fluid flow out to the calipers, just because the hoses are new doesn't mean they're good, especially with the cheap offshore stuff that comes in those kits. I've had brand new brake hoses separate internally and limit flow. You can also check to make sure that the calipers are sliding well on the caliper brackets, all of those surfaces should be new so it shouldn't be an issue but if the callers aren't sliding like they should it can effect stopping power.

And if you've just got the brake pads from the kit you might want to grab a part number and see what they actually sent you, brake pad composition and quality also makes a big difference and if you figure out what pads you have you can look them up and see if they have a break in procedure listed.
 
and yes I do do have an adjustable brake valve

I'm assuming you are using a DUAL-brake, front/rear system.
So, in which line did you install it the adjustable valve, and where?
On a MOPAR Dual M/C, the front brakes have to run directly to the REAR reservoir on the M/C with NO pressure modifications and no hold-off valves. Thru the Distribution block is fine, BUT, the M/C line comes in on the END, and then splits. In a MOPAR system the lines from the M/C are coded by size and only fit the appropriately coded valve but one way.
Mopar has used at least three different types of valves that I know of, so knowing which one you have is kindof important. The kinds are; a simple distribution block, a combination distribution front with a straight out rear valve, and the same valve with a proportioning valve tacked into the back. This type usually has a safety switch incorporated into it.

This safety switch is supposed to be self centering. But I have seen cases where it it has shifted to one end or the other. When this happens, whatever side the shuttle has moved to, that side of the brake system fails to work, by design.
If you have this type of valve, you can check the position of the shuttle valve by checking the continuity thru the switch to the brass body. In centered position there should NOT be continuity. If there is continuity, it can only be that the shuttle is not in neutral. But you don't know which way it has gone.
In your case, it seems to have shut off the fronts. The only way to move it is to open the rear line and slowly press the pedal until no more continuity is found, then close the leak.
I mean, I'm guessing, right.
Other notes;
>If you do not have a MOPAR valve, then IDK how other brands work.
>If you have clamped the rubber soft-lines, they may have been damaged beyond use.
>If you do NOT have a high and hard pedal, then you have a problem, and
it may not be hydraulic

Hope that helps
 
I'm using the original distribution block with the rear feed blocked off and a straight line to the rear brakes distribution block. The front brake line is in the rear reservoir down to the front distribution block. The rear brake line is connected to the front reservoir to the porportioning valve and then out to the rear brake block
 
Original to what? I'm guessing 1964
In that case there is no shuttle, so you got it right as far as can figure.
I which case, Ima thinking that the chamber between the Power pistons does not have fluid in it. Lemmee think
Yeah I think that's it. See bold below.
Do you understand what I'm talking about? If not, I'll go dig up a picture to illustrate. say the Word, I'm retired. I got lotsa time, especially now that I'm only needing like 4 hours of sleep every night, lol.
Did you bench bleed the Master?
Ok/ok, I got time; Here's an image.
Notice that the two pistons have a chamber between them which discharges into the front reservoir . That M/C cannot work unless that chamber is full of brake fluid, because the pistons are NOT otherwise coupled. Instead, they are hydraulically coupled. Well, they are supposed to be, lol. So how then do you get fluid into there?

Notice the power pistons are yellow.
Notice the RH piston has an extension on it that touches nothing. The chamber to the left of it has to be full of fluid to transmit the pedal movement hydraulically from the RH piston to the LH piston, which then operates the second half of the dual system.
If there is no fluid in that chamber, then extra pedal-travel (built into the system), will be needed, to bring that formerly thought to be useless extension on the RH piston, into physical contact with the LH piston, and now they are mechanically coupled and the brakes should all work, allbeit with a low pedal.
However, the compensating port of the RH chamber can no longer work! so long term, that RH chamber will fail to function.
Furthermore;
If that chamber is empty, the RH piston will slide right on by the discharge port to the front brakes, until it meets resistance in the LH chamber ! and I think this is what's happening to you.

So , how do you get fluid into that chamber?
Well normally, we bench bleed the M/C, which involves clamping the M/C in a vice, at a slight angle, up at the front, to ensure that air will leave the power chambers. Then we install little rubber/plastic lines from the outlet ports up over the sides of the reservoirs and submerging them in the fluid. Then we just FULL-stroke the piston package until all the air has left the system. Simultaneously, we watch that the C-ports are purging, and, when the bubbling stops, voila, we are done. Clamp the rubber lines, secure the cap, and reinstall it.
Hold on bubba;
Sometimes it happens that air leaving the pistons via the return hoses, does not travel all the way around and back into the reservoir. Instead, it and possibly a small packet of fluid, just shuttles back and forth inside the hoses, and so you think that you're done, but you're wrong; you just don't know it, cuz you cannot see it. This is why I use clear plastic lines, so I can catch that shameful action.
To stop this from happening, I just pinch the hoses near the reservoir ends, with my free hand, on the back stroke. This creates a low pressure in the hoses and forces the fluid in the reservoirs, to be drawn in thru the tiny C-ports. and ....... NOW, yur done.
Since, to bleed the M/C, the front end has to be higher, you might think to do this with the M/C installed in the car, and one could, so long as the Power-piston package fully strokes in both directions, and the air leaves. But-um, how can you know that the air has left? If the hard lines are installed, you can never be sure. Maybe, the fluid is just shuttling back and forth as described above. Sure, you could crack the lines, but that's gonna make a mess and brake fluid eats paint. So, just don't do it!
Now, after that power chamber is full of fluid, and the lines are full, then the M/C can be reinstalled, and the hard lines hooked up..
After that the system is bled and working, you still have to prove that the pushrod is adjusted to the right length. The Pushrod has to pull the Power-Piston assembly towards the firewall, to it's designed parking spot, to always allow the returning-fluid, to enter into those chambers around both pistons, and thence to return into the reservoirs, thru the ports. On every pedal stroke, the first inch or so of stroke, is used up, in pushing the pistons past those C-ports. Those ports are called compensating ports, because as your friction materials wear, if they were not there, your pedal would sink ever closer to the floor until one day, the car will fail to stop. So, those ports, compensate for friction-material wear, and they have to always be open with the pedal at rest, against it's up-stop.

Sorry about the delayed answer; we had an electrical power outage so I grabbed a couple of hours sleep.
Ok, so I'm just gonna proofread this, and edit as may be required and in an hour, it's all yours.
OK/DONE! let the questions fly!




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Your guess was right original 64 block front and rear yes the M/C was bench bled and I was unable to open the attachment and as for me I am also retired but need more than 4 hours of sleep lol thanks for your help
 
The attachment came through. The M/C is a reproduction of the old style dual reservoir with a 1 1/8 bore
 

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