Manifolds vs. Headers

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7dswinger

7dswinger

MOPAR's rule
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How big of a gain would it be for me to run headers vs. using the stock iron manifolds. I know that headers are better but with a pretty much stock 318 how much of a gain am I looking at. I'm going to have an exhaust shop install dual exhaust with bigger pipes so I'd have them install the headers as well.
 
7dswinger said:
How big of a gain would it be for me to run headers vs. using the stock iron manifolds. I know that headers are better but with a pretty much stock 318 how much of a gain am I looking at. I'm going to have an exhaust shop install dual exhaust with bigger pipes so I'd have them install the headers as well.
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Not that much 10-15 hp ?? If you don't change the carburetor intake and cam it will not make a big difference , will sound better though . If you plan on changing things down the road it will be worth it . And if cheap headers say goodbye to ground clearance , you'll be hitting every speed bump in town .
here is a chart , not the word of god , but a good guide to what to expect , a bit less on yours because stock intake carb

http://www.moparmusclemagazine.com/...ers_into_300hp_crate_engine/dyno_results.html
 
i have headers on my 318. they made a difference, cant tell you how much. my cheap-*** long tube headers, dont scrape, i have 4 inches from the bottom tube to the ground. they dont leak, they dont burn wires, the paint still looks great . i have no problem changing plugs. they get a bad rap because people go blasting into driveways and ditches with bad shocks and bash them in. i have slant torsion bars and in two years they look as good as they day i put them on.
 
I would look for a set of 5.2/5.9 magnum manifolds, they flow awesome and don't cost a lot.
 
73AbodEE said:
i have headers on my 318. they made a difference, cant tell you how much. my cheap-*** long tube headers, dont scrape, i have 4 inches from the bottom tube to the ground. they dont leak, they dont burn wires, the paint still looks great . i have no problem changing plugs. they get a bad rap because people go blasting into driveways and ditches with bad shocks and bash them in. i have slant torsion bars and in two years they look as good as they day i put them on.
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I had Hookers on my car , and they hit everywhere , maybe the roads are like glass in your area , with no speed bumps . Mine were pancaked , and no my shocks are perfect and I did not blast into driveways or ditches . Ive yet to see an A body with cheap *** headers that DON''T have 1 or 2 flattened tubes , unless it's a show car that never drives . Been driving Darts with headers since 1970 , and they hit then , hit now , only headers that don't hit bottom are TTI and Dougs , at least on the shitty roads up here and northern states .
 
73AbodEE said:
i have headers on my 318. they made a difference, cant tell you how much. my cheap-*** long tube headers, dont scrape, i have 4 inches from the bottom tube to the ground. they dont leak, they dont burn wires, the paint still looks great . i have no problem changing plugs. they get a bad rap because people go blasting into driveways and ditches with bad shocks and bash them in. i have slant torsion bars and in two years they look as good as they day i put them on.
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But do you drive it???:toothy8:
 
jerry6 said:
I had Hookers on my car , and they hit everywhere , maybe the roads are like glass in your area , with no speed bumps . Mine were pancaked , and no my shocks are perfect and I did not blast into driveways or ditches . Ive yet to see an A body with cheap *** headers that DON''T have 1 or 2 flattened tubes , unless it's a show car that never drives . Been driving Darts with headers since 1970 , and they hit then , hit now , only headers that don't hit bottom are TTI and Dougs , at least on the shitty roads up here and northern states .
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i have hooker cheap *** headers. i live on a dirt road out in the sticks and the roads are far from glass. my k member is 6" off the ground. the tubes are 4". they NEVER hit. i drive this car every single day. its far from a show car , this is my daily driver and not my first car with headers by 30 years.

inkjunkie said:
But do you drive it???:toothy8:
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lol yes Doug, every day :D
 

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Rockerdude: They'll bolt right up to a 72 LA block no problem? That's nice, I'll see what I can find if I stay with manifolds

73abodee: what headers are you running? Summit ones?

Jerry6: I'm running the EZ EFI system, I believe there's a different cam in it and it's got a dual plane Weind intake on it. I'm planning on putting a different cam and heads on the thing later on (stock 318 heads but middy ported and polished) so in that sense it would be a good idea.

Any one had any experience with shorty headers (block huggers) it would seem that if I stalled a set of shorty's I wouldn't have to go through all the hassle of lifting the engine up and everything, that and I'd get better clearance.

If I go with headers can the exhaust shop install them or will I have to, which I really don't want to.
 
7dswinger said:
73abodee: what headers are you running? Summit ones?



If I go with headers can the exhaust shop install them or will I have to, which I really don't want to do.
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right now i have a set of hooker super competition on the 318 in my duster which is my DD. i also have a set of hedman long tubes on my 360. badsport is using the summit brand, all are good headers in my experience. as long as you dont try to drop the front end of the car 2 inches off the ground or play dukes of hazzard, they will be fine if you arent looking to spend 4 or 500 bucks. im sure a shop would do it for you, but they may want to empty your wallet doing it.
 
you can gain a bit more clearance by raising the front end but you may end up with very little or no caster and you're camber may go positive on suspension compression...both not to good for handling.
 
I run the cheapo Summit headers on my Dart Sport, no issues here either. After I put them on I intentionally found some speed bumps in a parking lot and drove over them to see if they would scrape. Nope not yet anyway. I have 6" of clearance.
 
Too much work to try to get the manifolds to work for me as I'm fine with sticking with the stock ones if I have to.

That is true, they may charge a lot for it. But if I use block huggers it shouldn't be too bad should it?
 
If your gonna stick with manifolds put on 360 ones flow better than the 318's ones.
 
Like 73AbodEE & Badsport, I have cheapo headers (Hooker Comps) on my Duster. Haven't scraped them in the year that I have had the car, even when pulling over the big a$$ curb at the end of my drive.

Regarding the install, it would certainly save you a bit of cash doing it yourself. It is pretty straight forward, but may/will require you to loosen the motor mounts, starter etc... I removed and re-installed them when I replaced my steering gearbox and didn't have to jack up the motor. I did have to remove the starter to get he drivers side in/out and had to remove the 90 degree filter plate to get the passenger side in/out.

Pat
 
7dswinger said:
Rockerdude: They'll bolt right up to a 72 LA block no problem? That's nice, I'll see what I can find if I stay with manifolds

73abodee: what headers are you running? Summit ones?

Jerry6: I'm running the EZ EFI system, I believe there's a different cam in it and it's got a dual plane Weind intake on it. I'm planning on putting a different cam and heads on the thing later on (stock 318 heads but middy ported and polished) so in that sense it would be a good idea.

Any one had any experience with shorty headers (block huggers) it would seem that if I stalled a set of shorty's I wouldn't have to go through all the hassle of lifting the engine up and everything, that and I'd get better clearance.

If I go with headers can the exhaust shop install them or will I have to, which I really don't want to.
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So with that setup headers will be a good choice , your not stock like I assumed , and later additions will like headers.
I run the block huggers , they dropped right in , no problem only hard part was hooking up the exhaust . look for the thread . As for power , they are as good or better than the hookers they replaced . biggest problem I have is no traction and slow reaction time .
Go through the hedman block hugger thread , someone else has them installed above the steering , mine is below but made so it has good clearance and flow . Pictures are included of both installs to give your exhaust guy an idea on what to do , if you go that route
 
73AbodEE said:
i have hooker cheap *** headers. i live on a dirt road out in the sticks and the roads are far from glass. my k member is 6" off the ground. the tubes are 4". they NEVER hit. i drive this car every single day. its far from a show car , this is my daily driver and not my first car with headers by 30 years.



lol yes Doug, every day :D
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Your car looks like it sits a BIT" higher than mine , mine is factory height , factory height tires . I like the way the car handles , stays flat on turns and exit entrance ramps with long loops arE fun to blast , just had some clown in a Hyundai sport car almost leave the road trying to keep up to my old Dart on the ramp , and I had a lot more to go .
 
this is how it sits right now on 14" tires on the front. it handles and drives great. i could still drop it another inch and still be ok
 

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kiss methodology, keep it simple silly...stock or light worked on motor keep dual exhaust with your stock manifolds, not gain from headders! if anything you may get a loss! I ran my 318 in the first 66 cuda I had at track consistant low 14's quarter mile with good dual exhaust! Not noisy and very street reliable and fun to blow people in mustangs minds off!!!! Unless you are going high HP no need for headders they just make alot of noise and need alot of HP and flow to get hp out of them for a simple motor! Spend your money on electronic ignition update and you get more hp! and reliability!!!!! My current 65 formula s has been updated to early 318 same as my former 66, simple headwork, electronic ignition, dual exhaust, street car!!!! fun to drive, no longer drag race just enjoy the ride. Also dual brake cylinder and front disc brakes, safety first!!!! Mopar or No Car!!!!!!!

Enjoy your Cuda and have fun!!!! JMO!!
 
73AbodEE said:
this is how it sits right now on 14" tires on the front. it handles and drives great. i could still drop it another inch and still be ok
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Just by the pic , I'd say your car is sitting at least 1 1/2 -2" higher than mine , that is the reason you might not be hitting as often as I did and others do . I really like carving up the back roads , so sitting up another 1 1/2 - 2' would hurt . Not saying any thing wrong with your set up , just different .
You would be surprised how dropping an inch will impact the headers , if you have 4" clearance now 3" is not much , that's hitting speed bump territory here , some here are over 3" high and 16"-20" wide . Always fun to see a Lamborghini cross them bumps .
 
Headers tend to help HP and torque a little bit. But the few HP and TQ across the entire operating range helps more than one would initially think. They can lean out a carb, especially OEM, so compensating for that would get the most out of them.

Here is a dyno comparison on a mild 360 using a variety of OEM manifolds and headers for reference.

http://www.moparmusclemagazine.com/...pp_0307_mopar_crate_engine_exhaust/index.html

TTI headers would solve any ground clearance problems, but it does depend on your budget.

http://www.ttiexhaust.com/
 
65cudalover said:
kiss methodology, keep it simple silly...stock or light worked on motor keep dual exhaust with your stock manifolds, not gain from headders! if anything you may get a loss! I ran my 318 in the first 66 cuda I had at track consistant low 14's quarter mile with good dual exhaust! Not noisy and very street reliable and fun to blow people in mustangs minds off!!!! Unless you are going high HP no need for headders they just make alot of noise and need alot of HP and flow to get hp out of them for a simple motor! Spend your money on electronic ignition update and you get more hp! and reliability!!!!! My current 65 formula s has been updated to early 318 same as my former 66, simple headwork, electronic ignition, dual exhaust, street car!!!! fun to drive, no longer drag race just enjoy the ride. Also dual brake cylinder and front disc brakes, safety first!!!! Mopar or No Car!!!!!!!

Enjoy your Cuda and have fun!!!! JMO!!
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When you say electronic ignition upgrade, do you mean above & beyong the factory elecronic ingnition for those of us that have it? Like an HEI setup or MSD setup. Or do you just mean upgrading from points to electronic. My '73 has factory electronic ignition, so just trying to clear that up. thx
 
jerry6 said:
Just by the pic , I'd say your car is sitting at least 1 1/2 -2" higher than mine , that is the reason you might not be hitting as often as I did and others do . I really like carving up the back roads , so sitting up another 1 1/2 - 2' would hurt . Not saying any thing wrong with your set up , just different .
You would be surprised how dropping an inch will impact the headers , if you have 4" clearance now 3" is not much , that's hitting speed bump territory here , some here are over 3" high and 16"-20" wide . Always fun to see a Lamborghini cross them bumps .
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your dart looks tuff in your avatar. i did put a couple of cranks on the torsion bars when i put the V8 in it just to make sure it wouldnt be bottoming out. i am usually on the backroads around here , so i dont encounter many speed bumps. so far so good, i dont think i will ever lower the front much if any. i see fools all the time ripping out the bottom of their acuras that are 1 1/2 inches off the ground lol
 
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