Mopar Performance Purple Mechanical Camshaft - P4120653AE Cam Card

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I can tell you from my experience with MP cams...all the durations @.050 are incorrect. They are calculated number
I have used many MP590 cams for small blocks....MP shows 265 @ .050 my degree wheel shows 271 duration @.050

Same with the MP557 cam....MP 252 duration....my degree wheel keeps showing 258 @ .050
As said put in an engine and run a degree wheel on it......only way...

My experience too. I've always thought it was intentional sorta a propitiatory thing. Mopar's attitude was, they gave us all those recipes in the MP engine book......I know you remember those......and I think their attitude was, "just pick what we say will work for your combo and shut up".......and honestly, if all else fell into their recipe with "whatever" corresponding camshaft you chose, it WORKS!

In the end, isn't that all that counts?
 
I disagree. I think it doesn't matter where manufacturer, "X", wants to start measuring duration. If they give you a recommended installed lobe centerline spec and a duration spec you can derive the events for whatever their particular method for measuring is, as long as the opening lobe profile and closing lobe profile are mirror images of each other(symmetrical about the lobe centerline).
In your previous post you didn’t mention what is now mentioned and now it works OK. This was the point I was making in which in disagree with you but suddenly you make adjustments to your statement. Which suddenly makes you right. Saving face in this manor is pretty crappy. Sorry, I thought I’d see better.

I can tell you from my experience with MP cams...all the durations @.050 are incorrect. They are calculated number
I have used many MP590 cams for small blocks....MP shows 265 @ .050 my degree wheel shows 271 duration @.050

Same with the MP557 cam....MP 252 duration....my degree wheel keeps showing 258 @ .050
As said put in an engine and run a degree wheel on it......only way...

Thanks! This backs up a lot. I remember you saying you used these grinds years back as well. (Correct?)
Did you by chance also degree wheel them with same/similar results?

Mopar's attitude was, they gave us all those recipes in the MP engine book......I know you remember those......and I think their attitude was, "just pick what we say will work for your combo and shut up".......and honestly, if all else fell into their recipe with "whatever" corresponding camshaft you chose, it WORKS!

In the end, isn't that all that counts?

I never read someone ***** it did t perform at a minimum of what the book tips said it would unless they screwed up and people have the LMAO balls to call the book a bag of bull **** stuffed with lies. Which never made sense to me. Even more so because I was coming from (supposed) MoPar guys.
 
Every camshaft I have put in the past 35 yrs have been degreed.
And yes....i got the same results back then and I have two MP 590 cams in use now.....one is a 360 and one in a 408
 
Every camshaft I have put in the past 35 yrs have been degreed.
And yes....i got the same results back then and I have two MP 590 cams in use now.....one is a 360 and one in a 408
Thanks. 1 last question if you would.
Where did you find the cams best performance?
 
This ^^^^


Not exactly true but …..
Most calculations are done with a know advertised lift point of let’s just say @ .006. If you start running through a Comp Cam catalog, only certain cams are advertised in this way while others are at different points.
Now travel onto Crane Cams, Howard’s, etc….
You’ll find the same thing.
Exactly the reason for the .050 duration standard.
 
Every camshaft I have put in the past 35 yrs have been degreed.
And yes....i got the same results back then and I have two MP 590 cams in use now.....one is a 360 and one in a 408
Sounds like you have a fair amount of experience with purple cams - I dont.
I am thinking of using 528 cam on a new combination
Street only application, 3100lb A Body
Lock up 727, 3000 stall, 3:55 gearing, 28 inch tire
.030 over 340 LA, mild ported X heads, 10.5 static, gasket matched dual plane, Edelbrock 800 cfm, TTI step headers.
Looking for the cam to promote low - mid range torque with good street manners.
Opinions valued.
Thanks
Jim K
Edit tire size
 
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Sounds like you have a fair amount of experience with purple cams - I dont.
I am thinking of using 528 cam on a new combination
Street only application, 3100lb A Body
Lock up 727, 3000 stall, 3:55 gearing, 26 inch tire
.030 over 340 LA, mild ported X heads, 10.5 static, gasket matched dual plane, Edelbrock 800 cfm, TTI step headers.
Looking for the cam to promote low - mid range torque with good street manners.
Opinions valued.
Thanks
Jim K
It will work great. Kim
 
Sounds like you have a fair amount of experience with purple cams - I dont.
I am thinking of using 528 cam on a new combination
Street only application, 3100lb A Body
Lock up 727, 3000 stall, 3:55 gearing, 26 inch tire
.030 over 340 LA, mild ported X heads, 10.5 static, gasket matched dual plane, Edelbrock 800 cfm, TTI step headers.
Looking for the cam to promote low - mid range torque with good street manners.
Opinions valued.
Thanks
Jim K

I like it. You might want a larger tire… wide for sure.
:lol:
What dual plane intake?
Do you know your head flow numbers till .500?
 
I like it. You might want a larger tire… wide for sure.
:lol:
What dual plane intake?
Do you know your head flow numbers till .500?
Type O on the tire size should be 28 inch.
Edelbrock Performer intake
No flow numbers on the heads, they are factory X heads that were acid ported for an NHRA spec engine. If you can even call that ported.
I have found a Gent that will CNC port them, the program makes 260 cfm at .500 lift.
 
Type O on the tire size should be 28 inch.
Edelbrock Performer intake
No flow numbers on the heads, they are factory X heads that were acid ported for an NHRA spec engine. If you can even call that ported.
I have found a Gent that will CNC port them, the program makes 260 cfm at .500 lift.
Well, unless you try and make power like a certain class racer does, a better flowing port is always a help. IDK if I would port the X heads and even more so after the described treatment.

Im also not sure what the cost of the CNC program is for your guy or if the heads need to be rebuilt but I’ll just leave that cost out since there probably pretty good if there in use now with not an extreme amount of miles or abuse.

Im just saying here, not so much suggesting this route for you, but it if was a build from scratch, I’d look at these Shocker 185 Mopar CNC (Sold in Pairs) - PROMAXX Performance Products


or the trick flows (though a little more expensive on head and suggest rocker gear) which at the moment, are not in stock at trick flow. Maybe somewhere else. Point being is the fatter flow curve down low to the .500 lift area. I myself would use a 1.6 rocker on the MP .528 cam to regain the lift lost by lash and geometry angles.

As a side note, an opinion, if you don’t already have the MP mechanical .528, I would look for a different cam with very similar duration (though I might use a slightly less duration myself) and more lift. Don’t get me wrong. The MP grind is a good street & bracket cam.

If you already have it, stab it and run the socks out of it!
 
Well, unless you try and make power like a certain class racer does, a better flowing port is always a help. IDK if I would port the X heads and even more so after the described treatment.

Im also not sure what the cost of the CNC program is for your guy or if the heads need to be rebuilt but I’ll just leave that cost out since there probably pretty good if there in use now with not an extreme amount of miles or abuse.

Im just saying here, not so much suggesting this route for you, but it if was a build from scratch, I’d look at these Shocker 185 Mopar CNC (Sold in Pairs) - PROMAXX Performance Products


or the trick flows (though a little more expensive on head and suggest rocker gear) which at the moment, are not in stock at trick flow. Maybe somewhere else. Point being is the fatter flow curve down low to the .500 lift area. I myself would use a 1.6 rocker on the MP .528 cam to regain the lift lost by lash and geometry angles.

As a side note, an opinion, if you don’t already have the MP mechanical .528, I would look for a different cam with very similar duration (though I might use a slightly less duration myself) and more lift. Don’t get me wrong. The MP grind is a good street & bracket cam.

If you already have it, stab it and run the socks out of it!
Great info, thanks for the reply
The CNC porting I referred to is Dave at KG Engines in OH, I spoke with him and seemed very knowledgeable offered up a complete CNC service for $750. A lot less expensive $ than a new set of aluminum heads.
He was not concerned that they had been acid washed. The X heads I have are currently on the car and just freshened by Brad VanLant in 2018 maybe 5000 miles on them and the rest of engine Most likely a touch would be a good idea while they are off the engine.
I do not currently have an MP 528, I would like to find a cam that is close to the MP528 maybe in a solid roller.
So the quest continues for the perfect cam. Ha LOL
Any suggestions would again be valued
 
That would be a smaller solid roller. IMO, your better off sticking with a SFT w/EDM lifters for the icing on the cake. Another thing is your gears, converter and tire size will not make for a good combination with a over a 240@050 solid cam. It’s slightly unbalanced now on the cam side being heavy or to big.

JMO
 
That would be a smaller solid roller. IMO, your better off sticking with a SFT w/EDM lifters for the icing on the cake. Another thing is your gears, converter and tire size will not make for a good combination with a over a 240@050 solid cam. It’s slightly unbalanced now on the cam side being heavy or to big.

JMO
OK so if I read you correctly
More lift, less duration, keep it flat solid tappet - correct?
I like the EDM lifters.
When you use EDM lifters do you need to up grade to a high volume oil pump?
Current oil pressure is 20-25 hot idle with crap Comp Retro Hyd Rollers which I dislike.
 
Great info, thanks for the reply
The CNC porting I referred to is Dave at KG Engines in OH, I spoke with him and seemed very knowledgeable offered up a complete CNC service for $750. A lot less expensive $ than a new set of aluminum heads.
He was not concerned that they had been acid washed. The X heads I have are currently on the car and just freshened by Brad VanLant in 2018 maybe 5000 miles on them and the rest of engine Most likely a touch would be a good idea while they are off the engine.
I do not currently have an MP 528, I would like to find a cam that is close to the MP528 maybe in a solid roller.
So the quest continues for the perfect cam. Ha LOL
Any suggestions would again be valued

Very reasonable on price post some before and after photos and other members may use him in future including me thanks
 
Sounds like you have a fair amount of experience with purple cams - I dont.
I am thinking of using 528 cam on a new combination
Street only application, 3100lb A Body
Lock up 727, 3000 stall, 3:55 gearing, 28 inch tire
.030 over 340 LA, mild ported X heads, 10.5 static, gasket matched dual plane, Edelbrock 800 cfm, TTI step headers.
Looking for the cam to promote low - mid range torque with good street manners.
Opinions valued.
Thanks
Jim K
Edit tire size

Oh Lord, good luck findin one!
 
That’s what I would do. Less duration, 5*’s is my taste. But a lot depends on how the lobes are ground. More lift to take advantage of the cylinder heads air flow, (where does the heads peak flow happen? At what lift?) a solid flat tappet due to expense, EDM lifters for that oil hole feature. High volume oil pump not needed. IMO, that oil @ 20-25 psi hot is a little low.
I’ve run worse….. not thrilled about it….

APB answered….
Here is an example without running a 1.6 rocker;
DODGE Howards Cams 710862-08 Howards Cams Mechanical Flat Tappet Camshafts | Summit Racing
Good mention on a Racer Brown. Normally he doesn’t do very high lifting cams.
The Howard’s is a slight hair larger than what I could find quickly, but that would do it for me. Even though the duration is barely lower than what Ma MoPar says there duration at 050 is, we know it’s actually a hair larger. The way this cam is, it’ll idle rough but give more low end torque with the slight dip in duration and the narrow centerline @ 108.

It’s hard to get a lower duration cam with similar or greater lifts.
 
The comment about the MP 050 duration numbers being 'calculated' piqued my interest. In the chart that RRR provided, the '528' 440 mech cam was shown as 241 @ 050. I ran that cam many years ago & I measured the duration. I am sure it was mare than 241, more like 244 or 248. Great cam though.
 
That’s what I would do. Less duration, 5*’s is my taste. But a lot depends on how the lobes are ground. More lift to take advantage of the cylinder heads air flow, (where does the heads peak flow happen? At what lift?) a solid flat tappet due to expense, EDM lifters for that oil hole feature. High volume oil pump not needed. IMO, that oil @ 20-25 psi hot is a little low.
I’ve run worse….. not thrilled about it….

APB answered….
Here is an example without running a 1.6 rocker;
DODGE Howards Cams 710862-08 Howards Cams Mechanical Flat Tappet Camshafts | Summit Racing
Good mention on a Racer Brown. Normally he doesn’t do very high lifting cams.
The Howard’s is a slight hair larger than what I could find quickly, but that would do it for me. Even though the duration is barely lower than what Ma MoPar says there duration at 050 is, we know it’s actually a hair larger. The way this cam is, it’ll idle rough but give more low end torque with the slight dip in duration and the narrow centerline @ 108.

It’s hard to get a lower duration cam with similar or greater lifts.

Just a addendum to any Howard’s recommendation: I have used Barnett’s Performance out of Georgia to order anything from Howard’s as they have some of the best pricing and so far have not charged shipping and any taxes. They have had quite a few Howards parts in stock and have also had them dropped shipped from Howard’s.
To get the “racer pricing” you have to sign up for an account, easy enough. I highly recommend Barnett’s to anyone shopping for Price and service :thumbsup:

Barnett Performance : Welcome to Barnett Performance - Home Page - https://www.barnettperformance.com
 
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That’s what I would do. Less duration, 5*’s is my taste. But a lot depends on how the lobes are ground. More lift to take advantage of the cylinder heads air flow, (where does the heads peak flow happen? At what lift?) a solid flat tappet due to expense, EDM lifters for that oil hole feature. High volume oil pump not needed. IMO, that oil @ 20-25 psi hot is a little low.
I’ve run worse….. not thrilled about it….

APB answered….
Here is an example without running a 1.6 rocker;
DODGE Howards Cams 710862-08 Howards Cams Mechanical Flat Tappet Camshafts | Summit Racing
Good mention on a Racer Brown. Normally he doesn’t do very high lifting cams.
The Howard’s is a slight hair larger than what I could find quickly, but that would do it for me. Even though the duration is barely lower than what Ma MoPar says there duration at 050 is, we know it’s actually a hair larger. The way this cam is, it’ll idle rough but give more low end torque with the slight dip in duration and the narrow centerline @ 108.

It’s hard to get a lower duration cam with similar or greater lifts.
Dave is going to send me a flow chart, the two data points he gave me over the phone are
280 cfm @ 650
260 cfm @ 500
I plan on keeping my 1.5 ratio Comp roller rockers they work well on the current heads
I like the numbers the Howards cam except the 108 centerline. I had a 108 cam in the past it was not very street friendly with a auto trans.
Perhaps I could have the same cam ground on a 110 centerline?
Food for thought.
 
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