1. jonn6464

    jonn6464 1970 Duster FABO Gold Member

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    I need some schooling on the mighty 318.

    I recently picked up a couple of 318 motors. One is a long block (orange) the other is complete (blue).

    I know there are 2 types of water pumps for the 318, and I seem to have one of each on these engines. Blue engine inlet is on the passenger side, orange engine inlet is on the driver's side.

    So, the question is, can I use the water pump and PS brackets and pulleys from the blue engine on the orange engine?
    Are there other components that are or are not interchangeable?
    IMG_20210921_222611898.jpg

    IMG_20210921_222718068.jpg

    Also, the rocker arms and shafts are different. I'm not sure if they are both stock or not. Is there any benefit to one over the other?
    IMG_20210921_223310908_HDR.jpg

    IMG_20210921_223318965_HDR.jpg

    Thanks in advance for any answers.
     
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    • 70aarcuda

      70aarcuda Master Hoader of SBM FABO Gold Member

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      yes,,,but look on your timing chain cover....usually moving the water inlet on the water pump will cover up the timing marks on the timing chain cover...
       
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      • RustyRatRod

        RustyRatRod I was born on a Monday. Not last Monday. FABO Gold Member

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        You need to look at the casting number on the block on the starter side of the engines. You will have a casting number and towards the end it will have the engine size. Such as 318-4 or some such. It will be right behind where the starter would mount on the block on the driver's side of the engine. Those rockers are factory 273 rockers that have had aftermarket adjusters put in some of them.
         
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        • jonn6464

          jonn6464 1970 Duster FABO Gold Member

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          I'm not wanting to swap water pumps, I'm wondering if I can use the alternator and PS pump brackets from the blue engine on the orange. Or maybe there is a different set of brackets that I need to get for the orange engine?
           
        • RustyRatRod

          RustyRatRod I was born on a Monday. Not last Monday. FABO Gold Member

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          The blue engine has THE MOST PROLIFIC accessory drive there is for the small block. That's the stuff I would endeavor to use, even if it meant swapping timing covers. JMO.
           
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          • 67Dart273

            67Dart273 FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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            Generally, no you cannot mix or match or sub the accessories from those two "generations." The orange, the earlier type was used up to ?70? or so, and the blue ones were the type after. The pulleys, brackets, balancer, just about everything is different.

            Those rocker arms are a find. They were used on 273 engines and are the only factory small block rockers there ever were, except for the 340TA engines, and those rockers are different. If you EVER think you will use those FIND OUT what lifters are in there. The pushrods are different length between hydraulic and solid lifters

            I would check over the orange engine. It may NOT be a 318.
             
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            • MOPAROFFICIAL

              MOPAROFFICIAL FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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              What casting are the heads on each?
               
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              • 66fs

                66fs FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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                The orange engine looks very interesting. 273? Solid Cam? 4 speed? how many teeth on the flywheel? pistons? head castings numbers? 360 heads?
                here is a picture of the early alternator bracket. I'll try to get a better pic later.

                P1010005.JPG

                I prefer the early cast iron water pump assembly, for it's simplicity. The 70 up is more universal. If swapping it is best to do the whole thing from timing cover and vibration damper out.
                 
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                • AAndrews

                  AAndrews MOPAR .. Move Over, Plymouth Approaching Rapidly!

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                  Check the radiator you want to use as well. Bottom outlet is in different positions depending on the year . and which water pump is used.
                   
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                  • halifaxhops

                    halifaxhops It's going to get stupid around here! FABO Gold Member

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                  • MOPAROFFICIAL

                    MOPAROFFICIAL FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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                    Absolutely.
                     
                  • jonn6464

                    jonn6464 1970 Duster FABO Gold Member

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                    I bought the orange engine from Old Man Ray, via Mopar Tim who delivered it on his way through TX to Carlisle.
                    Here is the description from OMR... it does state that it's running 273 rockers. I have no doubt that it is a 318 motor, I believe OMR.
                    upload_2021-9-22_10-5-1.png I can't seem to make this bigger.

                    I only have the blue engine because it was part of a package deal with an A833 trans. I want to run the orange engine, so I was hoping I could use the pulleys and brackets from the blue engine.

                    I don't really know anything about the blue engine, other than it was pulled from a '68 Charger and that it "ran really well when it was pulled". We all know how that goes.

                    I'll get some casting pics from both engines when I get home today.
                     
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                    • Dartswinger70

                      Dartswinger70 Only thing I ever bought new was a Fender Strat

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                      Orange is earlier setup, blue is later. I think the early setup goes up to 68 or 9 later is 70 -up( aluminum water pump) im sure Im off on my years, I had the cast water pump on my 340,and my pulleys wouldnt work, I had to switch to the aluminum water pump and every thing worked...the joy of putting a car back together from a pile of parts..LOL!
                       
                    • RustyRatRod

                      RustyRatRod I was born on a Monday. Not last Monday. FABO Gold Member

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                      Before you decide on which front accessory drive to run, CHECK to see if the early cast iron drivers side inlet water pump is readily available. S'all I'm sayin.
                       
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                      • AAndrews

                        AAndrews MOPAR .. Move Over, Plymouth Approaching Rapidly!

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                        Yup! It is Rusty,

                        Here you go.. Nappa Auto Parts.

                        Water Pump - Remanufactured

                        Part #: WPN 58180
                        Line: NAPA Water Pumps

                        737041.jpg
                         
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                        • Dartswinger70

                          Dartswinger70 Only thing I ever bought new was a Fender Strat

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                          isnt there a timing cover with the marks on the right for the early setup,and the damper also?
                           
                        • 66fs

                          66fs FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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                          The damper has the TDC line in a different place and a bolt on tab for the timing marks. The timing tab bolts to the bottom two bolts of the water pump.
                           
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                          • Dartswinger70

                            Dartswinger70 Only thing I ever bought new was a Fender Strat

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                            yeah I mean id see what timing cover etc. on the engine toe OP wants to run and get the corresponding water pump for it ,its probably the later aluminum one...
                             
                          • cudamark

                            cudamark FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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                            What vehicle is it going in? That might dictate which setup to use. Either way, use everything off the front of the engine for that year so everything will match up and work without having to modify things or have a Frankenmotor. You may also want to look at the back of the crank to see if it's correct for the transmission you're going to use. A manual trans need a machined hole for the pilot bushing, or you will need to either machine the hole to the correct diameter, or use the later magnum pilot bearing.......unless it's the 273 forged crank. Conversely, if you're going to run an automatic, you need to match the torque converter button size with the corresponding register hole in the end of the crank. All the 318 cranks and the '68-9 273's have the big register. All the '64-7 273 cranks out of a car have the small register. both type cranks came in manual trans and automatic versions.
                             
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                            • krazykuda

                              krazykuda Well-Known Member FABO Gold Member How-To Section Editor

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                              It depends on what body style you are going to put it in.... You plan it for what style radiator you are going to run...

                              If you are going to put it in a 64 - 69 body, then go with the cast iron water pump and timing chain cover so the outlets will line up properly with the early radiator...

                              If you are going to put it in a 70 and later body, then go with the aluminum water pump and matching timing cover....



                              You have to use the proper vintage pulleys also... the late 60's pulleys are different than the 70 and later one... If you mix and match, the belt won't line up properly and you will side load it and it will break sooner....



                              You can get cast iron water pumps from Rock Auto....

                              1968 DODGE DART 5.6L 340cid V8 Water Pump | RockAuto

                              Then you can get the nipples from Grainger...


                              You run the vibration damper that is matched for the crank... If the timing marks are off, just put the engine at TDC and make a mark on the damper to match the marks on the timing cover/timing tab... That way the motor keeps its proper balance.... It's easy to re-mark the vibration damper for the different location if needed...
                               
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                              • jonn6464

                                jonn6464 1970 Duster FABO Gold Member

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                                I appreciate all the responses, there's a ton of knowledge here.

                                The engine and A833 is going into a 1975 Plymouth Trailduster.

                                My Trailduster Search Is Over

                                So, I don't have any attachment to which engine goes in it. Like I said previously, I want to install the orange motor because I believe it's ready to run and I feel more comfortable with the info I have on it.

                                I'm gonna sell the blue engine complete, as is. I'll get the proper pulleys, brackets, and radiator for the orange motor and be done with it.

                                I'd like to find some 6 rib pulleys, if they are out there.

                                Thanks again for all the help.
                                 
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                                • Mopar Tim

                                  Mopar Tim FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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                                  That orange engine is a 67 318. For sure....It has Swirl port heads on it, only casting number on them is 714. The last year for these heads....
                                   
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                                  • MOPAROFFICIAL

                                    MOPAROFFICIAL FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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                                    The open chamber head/brother to the 302. iirr.
                                     
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                                    • 66fs

                                      66fs FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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                                      That is one way to do it. But since it is going in a 75 Trailduster and they are both 318's, I'd swap the timing cover, damper, and all the brackets from the blue to the orange and be done. I'd still find true TDC while it is out and verify the mark.
                                       
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                                      • 66fs

                                        66fs FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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                                        Since it looks like you are running a hydraulic cam, I'd run the rocker assemblies and push rods off the blue motor. No adjustments, done. Save the 273 rockers for a solid lifter build or sell them.
                                         
                                        Last edited: Sep 30, 2021
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