Need help with old Chevy versus Mopar debate

[Inspector71]

Two brothers are locked in a debate. One says the Chevy 327 always beat the Mopar 340 (and even the 440). This has probably been done before but, are there any articles/documentation anyone can point me to with stock 327 4bbl versus stock 340 4bbl, A-Body to help settle this or at least allow the Mopar guy, who I naturally side with, hold his own? Thanks (yes, I looked on line and much of it was opinion and people on other forums trashing each other versus some numbers). Thanks

 

[momoparman]

Sounds like you and your buddy need to quit talking and line em up.

 

[ScampMike]

poppycock - - no body always beat someone - or we would just quit friggin' racing! Put a 327 in an Impala and line it up against a 340 Dart.. even a Dart Sport - power to weight ratio - Dart every time!
1967 Impala 327
Performance
ENGINE 0 TO 60 MPH QUARTER MILE
327ci/275hp 9.1 sec 17.0 sec @ 83 mph

..barely in the same zip code as a 340 Dart!!

1968 Dodge Dart
Performance
ENGINE 0 TO 60 MPH QUARTER MILE
340ci/275 hp 6.0 sec 14.4 sec @ 99 mph
440ci/375hp 5.0 sec 13.3 sec @ 107 mph

- depends on what you put it in and who is driving!

 

[adriver]

^
Wouldn't these engines need some type of car around them?

 

[Inspector71]

Thanks, that was fast. These two fellows are actually my younger brothers but no one can talk with the youngest without getting into an argument, about anything so I am trying to stay out of this. What about a 68 Camaro (did they still use the 327 then?) versus a 68 Barracuda 340? Or maybe a 64 Chevy II 327 versus a Dart 340? I am slowly finishing my 68 Barracuda which will have a 360. Once done, I'll have to pick up my Mopar younger brother and go looking for the youngest one. In the meantime, any literature, figures, facts, magazines etc to send the Mopar brother's way would be appreciated. Thanks all.

ScampMike: Thanks, those are the types of numbers I'm looking for. If you knew the person we have to argue with, you'd understand my reluctance to get involved.

 

[TrailBeast]

The Mopar wins just sitting there without even being started.

 

[ScampMike]

the info I am posting is from myclassicgarage.com

 

[Dartswinger70]

Keep in mind power to weight ratio, in the ET comparison above, it is an Impala vs a Dart, basically a "big car " vs a "compact". More accurate comparison would be a 68 Nova or Camaro vs the Dart. Impala weighs 4340 lbs, the Dart 3200ish? In reality the Impala needs a big block to be a performer IMO.

 

[Dartswinger70]

^
Wouldn't these engines need some type of car around them?

Good point, why not hook them up and have them dyno tested, winner take all LOL!

 

[Inspector71]

Before I posted this, I spent a lot of time on the internet trying to find hard numbers. Most of the sites that mentioned the 327 either discussed Corvettes or went right to the 350 and 396. I like the idea of a 1968 Dart 340 v. 68 Camaro 327. I am still trying to find a site that cuts to the chase.

 

[cawley]

My uncle always told a story about his 70 AAR cuda. It is stock & it would ALWAYS beat up on a local modified Camaro. All he had to do is turn the distributor a little.

 

[justinp61]

poppycock - - no body always beat someone - or we would just quit friggin' racing! Put a 327 in an Impala and line it up against a 340 Dart.. even a Dart Sport - power to weight ratio - Dart every time!
1967 Impala 327
Performance
ENGINE 0 TO 60 MPH QUARTER MILE
327ci/275hp 9.1 sec 17.0 sec @ 83 mph

..barely in the same zip code as a 340 Dart!!

1968 Dodge Dart
Performance
ENGINE 0 TO 60 MPH QUARTER MILE
340ci/275 hp 6.0 sec 14.4 sec @ 99 mph
440ci/375hp 5.0 sec 13.3 sec @ 107 mph

- depends on what you put it in and who is driving!

Impala against a Dart? Kinda apples to oranges isn't it? A 66 L79 Chevy II could give a lot of BB muscle cars a run for their money back in the day.

 

[ScampMike]

Impala against a Dart? Kinda apples to oranges isn't it? A 66 L79 Chevy II could give a lot of BB muscle cars a run for their money back in the day.

Keep in mind power to weight ratio, in the ET comparison above, it is an Impala vs a Dart, basically a "big car " vs a "compact". More accurate comparison would be a 68 Nova or Camaro vs the Dart. Impala weighs 4340 lbs, the Dart 3200ish? In reality the Impala needs a big block to be a performer IMO.

you're both right BUT - the statement/question is "One says the Chevy 327 always beat the Mopar 340 (and even the 440)." - so I was simply pointing out how totally ridiculous that is.. and I did end with "- depends on what you put it in and who is driving!"

 

[justinp61]

you're both right BUT - the statement/question is "One says the Chevy 327 always beat the Mopar 340 (and even the 440)." - so I was simply pointing out how totally ridiculous that is.. and I did end with "- depends on what you put it in and who is driving!"

Yep, my nephew has a 73 RR with a 340, it's a pig. I'm not sure that my wife's v-6 Charger wouldn't smoke it.

 

[ScampMike]

yea - 73 RR with a small block needs a little help (read performance upgrades) - lots of car there. My boss has a 2015 V6 Charger.. the thing is amazingly quick! and he's had it to 120 with "pedal to go" so...

 

[stroked340]

It's all about power to weight..heavy Impala w/327 wouldn't touch the 340 dart...the light Chevy II would give the 340 dart a run for its money..having owned a few basically "stock"tuned properly 340 dusters i can tell ya' there wasn't much out there i couldn't put in the rear-view mirror..

 

[318willrun]

To be honest, I've never been afraid of 327's with my 318's. any day, all day. I'm sure there were some special order vette or something that had the horses, but your "run of the mill 327 2bbl" in a Camaro vs a 318 2bbl in a duster, I go with the Duster. My brother had a 67 Camaro with a 327 2bbl, and I doubt it would have got out of 17's in the 1/4. My brother even had a vette 327 4bbl 4-speed, and I wasn't impressed. Maybe a 15 second car.

 

[floivanus]

The 327 was the low perf v8 for the camaro in 67-68 (350 was camaro only in 67, 68 corvette got the 350, then it replaced the 327 in 69)

The fact the 327 was replaced around the time everyone else was going bigger should point out the fact that it couldn't hang. I'm not even aware of anyone running a 327 just to run it anymore.

 

[Inertia]

This is hard to answer cuz the 327 came in several h/p ratings, from 275hp, 325 hp, 350 hp AND the L79 327/375 h/p, which was a killer engine, Mopar just had the "275"hp version 340.

My girlfriend had a 327/275 h/p Chevie 2/Nova, 4spd pegleg.

I had 340 Dart.

Rolling start she would hold her own pretty good, but was totally stock, mine was just starting to get tweaked.

Now after a lotta tweaking, I went looking for the local 375h/p Nova.

1st race, I beat, 2nd race he won (I poked a pushrod thru a rocker) 3rd race, the RCMP showed up, and we split,, we never raced against each other again, but we both knew we were very/very close. I was running 13.6 ish at that time..

 

[famous bob]

This is hard to answer cuz the 327 came in several h/p ratings, from 275hp, 325 hp, 350 hp AND the L79 327/375 h/p, which was a killer engine, Mopar just had the "275"hp version 340.

My girlfriend had a 327/275 h/p Chevie 2/Nova, 4spd pegleg.

I had 340 Dart.

Rolling start she would hold her own pretty good, but was totally stock, mine was just starting to get tweaked.

Now after a lotta tweaking, I went looking for the local 375h/p Nova.

1st race, I beat, 2nd race he won (I poked a pushrod thru a rocker) 3rd race, the RCMP showed up, and we split,, we never raced against each other again, but we both knew we were very/very close. I was running 13.6 ish at that time..

what about the 66 chevy 2 w/ a 365 horse 327 4speed ? a real good friend bought a brand new one in okmullgee ,ok , back in the day. they didn`t make tires that would hold it, almost un controllable. it had a 4 brrl., the f.I. version was 375 h.p.

 

[moper]

They must be younger. young enough to not know about actually racing anything. My stock appearing (aside from the nitrous plate and bigger tires) E body beat more than couple 750 motorcycles, a few 454s, a slew of small blocks, 5.0Ls (the old ones)... Mostly because the engine is only a small part of the equation.

 

[Inspector71]

A fair comparison would be the 275 hp rated Mopar 340, A-body versus similar 275 hp 327 in Chevvies equivalent body/weight. I used to have a 66 Plymouth Valiant 273 4b. The previous owner, an acquaintance, raced it against Ford 289 4bbls, Fairlanes and Mustangs as well as Chevy 283s in similar sized bodies. He never lost...

 

[Dartswinger70]

if I recall correctly, the 327 had 2.02 valves, forged crank a lot of the same attributes as a 340. They weren't anything to turn your nose at at the time. I believe the 350 came out in 68 or 69, as well as the 400 in the Impalas. A 327 with the right internals and setup was a contender. Also keep in mind the "pre smog" configurations of the late 60's, even a 73 340 is a dog by comparison. Some early pre smog v-8s were powerful even with a 2bbl carb.

 

[66fs]

Two brothers are locked in a debate. One says the Chevy 327 always beat the Mopar 340 (and even the 440). This has probably been done before but, are there any articles/documentation anyone can point me to with stock 327 4bbl versus stock 340 4bbl, A-Body to help settle this or at least allow the Mopar guy, who I naturally side with, hold his own? Thanks (yes, I looked on line and much of it was opinion and people on other forums trashing each other versus some numbers). Thanks

People like to use published Horsepower numbers that were inflated. NHRA factored, added HP, Mopar pretty heavy and defactored, subtracted HP, Chevrolet. NASCAR did the same. You can't have it both ways. When you cry that Mopar makes too much power, then crow that you won after they have been penalized. Look at Pro Stock in the 70's. Bob Glidden would wade through a sea of Chevies to win, first with Ford then with Mopar. The only rules were weight and cubic inch. As others have said above, there is a lot to racing. One of my favorite stories was of a 66 Chevy II w/365 HP 4 speed. He would tell you he was never beat. But talking with Mopar friends, A guy with a 68 or 69 340 Auto raced him and lost by two car lengths. After changing gears from 3.23 to 4.56, he beat him by 6 or 7 car lengths. The 340 and 727 just came alive! The Chevy II had a 4 speed and 4.10 gears. The 340 was stock. The small block Chevrolet is the lowest common denominator in racing. That is why Ford and Mopar where always factored, and the early Hemi's were outright banned. Chevrolet is not competitive without help. I won't even get into longevity. Bench Racing is not worth the time and effort. Tell them to Go out, get a car, and fix it up and drive it.

 

[Inspector71]

66fs

Amen to everything you said. My neighbor is a Pontiac GTO fanatic. In fact, considering his shrine in a two car garage dedicated to this car, walls, floor, you name it, he is more than a fanatic. I have a 68 Charger, gutted, that some day I want to finish and put up against his 67. He has a 400 but it has been stroked. I checked performance stats to see if my 383 Charger had a chance. Nope. But I noticed the 68 Super Bee 383 did. What I found was the Super Bee weighs less than the Charger (no surprise) but also typically came with a lower rear compared to the Charger's standard 3.23 sure grip. I forget what the GTO had but it was a lower gear as well. I did more research and found with, at least a 3.55 and weighing about the same, the Coronet 383 4bbl beats the GTO 400. I now have a 69 440 for the Charger. Someday...