need to get my ducks in a row here

-
trudysduster

trudysduster

FABO Gold Member
FABO Gold Member
Joined
Aug 24, 2009
Messages
5,033
Reaction score
224
Location
Corinth, Ky.
OK, this is the first time I have redone a mopar engine. I have only done chebbys in the past and have to tell you it has been a long time since I touched an engine period. I just put rings and bearings in my sons 360 before setting it down in the car. In turning the motor over on the engine stand, the gear for the dist. fell out.Check me out here before I crank this engine over. Attn: I am not a mechanic. But I have put a few engines together. I put no. 1 piston TDC. I put the shaft for the dist. in where the slot is parallel to the crank. I dropped the dist. down in where the button is pointing towards the pass. side front of engine about where #2 cyl. is located. this is what I got from my chiltons manual. My problem is that the timing mark does not line up on 0. It is about 10 degrees. I am thinking that the piston may be a little too high so I figure the adjustment in the dist. will compensate for that once it is running. I didnt mess with any timing chain, cam or anything like that. I just pulled the pistons and put new bearings and re-ringed it after I honed the cyl. of course. now, tell me if I am good to go on cranking this puppy over. Mopars are a little different than chebbys. This motor had 43000 miles on it but had sat a little while so I wanted to do the rings and bearings. thanks for your help.Bill
 

Attachments

  • DSC03174 (Copy).JPG
    109.3 KB · Views: 289
  • DSC03179 (Copy).JPG
    108.7 KB · Views: 290
  • DSC03181 (Copy).JPG
    87.2 KB · Views: 294
Bill,

I just put together a 318 for my Buddys 65 Valiant wagon and I took a lot of time studying how the dist and the oil pump shaft/gear went in. When the timing mark is at tdc the slot in the gear should be pointing front to back of the engine. If you can see the timing marks dot to dot the dist will be point at the firewall (#6 if I remember correctly) When the timing marks are both at the 12 oclock position that is #1 on the dist and the rotor is facing the front. Set the timing mark at TDC and remove the dist, then you can take a large screwdriver in the slot of the oil pump shaft and turn it clockwise, this will lift the gear off the cam gear and you can slowly position it the way you want. Don't worry if you go too far as you can continue rotating it until you get it where you want it. The 318 fired off the first time and all I had to do was advance the timing. Here is a link to all my pics and videos, we started out with a Craigslist $250 engine that I fired up on the garage floor LOL.
http://s71.photobucket.com/albums/i138/mrbill66malibu/Valiant/
 
well, I didnt mess with the timing on this at all. I just brought #1 piston to the top while I had the heads off. According to the Chiltons manual, the slot in the gear should be parallel with the crankshaft. Maybe I have the dist. 180 out. The rotor was pointing to the front pass. side of the engine about #2 piston. Just wanted to know if I am right so far. The only problem I see right now is the timing marks is not set at 0. it is a little off but maybe I brought the piston too high. that is what I need to k. thanks for the info. My first Mopar engine so far. Billnow
 
the shaft slot should be pointing toward the front intake bolt on the no 1 piston....accordingly to the factory service manual...

unless you have a dial indicator or piston stop you are guessing at TDC which probably accounts for being 10 degrees off on the damper....
 
the drive gear slot can be pointing to kansas as long as the # 1 plug is firing at the terminal the rotor is pointing to at TDC.
 
Put the motor on TDC and have the rotor facing the 1st intake bolt on the driver side.
 
73AbodEE said:
the drive gear slot can be pointing to kansas as long as the # 1 plug is firing at terminal the rotor is pointing to at TDC.
Click to expand...

wrjjol.jpg


The only reason most engines have specs on this sort of thing is so that

the assembly folks can wrench, repeat
the wires lay "nice"
tune up guys "see" what they expect

There are some engines that it DOES matter, like odd/ even fire V6's and some others

It does not matter if no1 is "ready to fire" or if no6 is up. The gear rotates at 1/2 crank speed, which means that every single crank revolution, the gear will be pointing the same way, just reversed 1/2 turn.

So once again, "to do it right"

Bring the timing marks to TDC. Drop the gear in, and don't worry. You can move it with a screwdriver by "walking" the gear up out of the helix

As others said, it's not exactly parallel with the crank, but rather pointing slightly to the driver side --the front manifold bolt hole in the left head

You really should get yourself a FACTORY shop manual, and you can download several right here............fer free!!!

This thread:

http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=132309&highlight=manual%2C+download


THEN to drop in the distributor, you need to makes sure you KNOW whether you are on no1 or no6 ready to fire. You an drop the dist in either way, and wire accordingly

IF the valve covers are off, just bring the marks up NOT TO TDC, but where you want inititial time, IE 10-15* or maybe more. Look at the valves, and if no1 are both closed, drop the dist in with the rotor pointing to the no1 tower in the cap.. If everything is "right" the vacuum advance can will be in the right place to have plenty of "swing."

If the valve covers are on, you'll need to stuff your finger in the no1 plug hole, and bump the engine until you feel compression. THEN bring the marks up to your initial time point and plug in the dist. Then just adjust the dist so that (breakerless) the reluctor tip is centered in the core of the pickup coil. This should be plenty close enough to fire and run.

If you have breaker points, turn the dist CW (retard) and slowly bring back CCW (advance) until the points just open, using a light or meter to indicate.
 

Attachments

  • drivegear.jpg
    67.5 KB · Views: 233
Thanks guys, with all this I think I am ok. I have a Chiltons manual and that is what I went by. If I rotate it back to TDC on the marks, I should find the slot looking at the first bolt up there. thanks again.
 
.........Also u can set ur initial timing b4 u fire it up......say u want 10*.....set ur damper to 10* b4 top center.....this works w/wo the aid of a helper.......with rotor verified 2 b pointing 2 #1, turn key on, take out #1 wire, hold wire slightly above #1 terminal, rotate dist till a spark jumps from cap to wire, ur now at 10* b 4 tdc...........kim......
 
ok, check this out. I put the engine TDC on the damper. I went in and turned the gear to where the dist. slot is pointing right at the first bolt on the driver side intake bolt. I am going to put the cap on and set the wires to where #1 is under the rotor and then set the firing order to 1.8.4.3.6.5.7.2. she should be ready to fire now right. pic enclosed. now I have an issue with the voltage regulator. found in electrical section.
 

Attachments

  • DSC03452 (Copy).JPG
    70.4 KB · Views: 183
Bill, if all you did was look at the timing marks, there is no way to know if you are "on" no1 or no6, IE you could be what's called "180 off" meaning the distributor could be 1/2 turn off

There are two ways to determine this. If either valve cover is off, look at the no1 or no6 valves. When the marks are on TDC, and both valves are closed, that cylinder is ready to fire, either no1 or 6

The second way is to wait until you can crank with the starter. Pull the no1 plug, stick your finger in the hole, and bump the engine until you feel compression. When you do, the marks should be "just coming up."

But to go a step further, don't try and time the dist. at TDC. Set the marks NOT at TDC, but rather where you want initial timing, IE 10-12 or more, 15*. Drop the dist. in, and center the reluctor tip in the reluctor core. That will be close enough that it should fire right up, without arguing with the distributor.


With a little practice, you can do as Kimmer said.
 
I have no idea what the hell you are talking about. I know no.1 piston is up because I set it that way before I put the heads on.I put the mark on the damper pulley on O. I put the slot in the gear pointing towards the first bolt in the intake on the drivers side. I dropped the dist. in and where the tip on the rotor is pointing towards the front of the engine, I made that the #1 hole on the cap. I put the plug wires in the proper firing order 18436572. will this fire up this way. I am getting aggrivated here. I think I took on more than I am capable of here. thanks,Bill
 
trudysduster said:
I have no idea what the hell you are talking about. I know no.1 piston is up because I set it that way before I put the heads on.I put the mark on the damper pulley on O. I put the slot in the gear pointing towards the first bolt in the intake on the drivers side. I dropped the dist. in and where the tip on the rotor is pointing towards the front of the engine, I made that the #1 hole on the cap. I put the plug wires in the proper firing order 18436572. will this fire up this way. I am getting aggrivated here. I think I took on more than I am capable of here. thanks,Bill
Click to expand...

you are fine. when it comes time to fire it, if it backfires or pops through through the carb a couple times without starting , take off the cap and the distributor clamp, lift up the distributor and turn the rotor 180* . once it fires twist the distributor counter clockwise to advance the timing and get a timing light on it, then tune the carb.
 
trudysduster said:
I have no idea what the hell you are talking about. I know no.1 piston is upl
Click to expand...

The number one piston comes up every single time the TDC mark comes up but it does not FIRE every time

1 No 1 comes up on compression, TDC marks are up, no1 fires Rotor is pointing to no1

2 Crank rotates ONE turn distributor turns ON HALF turn

3 TDC marks are up, no1 piston is up BUT IT IS NOT on compression, and does not fire!!!! Instead, no 6 fires!!! Rotor is pointing back at no 6

4 Crank rotates one MORE turn. distributor turns another HALF turn This time the TDC marks come up yet again, and no 1 is again up and firing, rotor is pointing ahead, to no1


The point is just because you brought the marks up, does not mean no1 is ready to fire.

Please read what I posted again. Either look at the valves when the marks are up and see whether no1 or no6 valves are closed --------or------------

wait til you can crank the engine and test with your finger for compression on no1.

There is NEVER any need to see huge gigantic fireballs out the carb.
 
a Quick way to check before you fire booth valves on #1 have to be closed rotor pointing at #1 on the dizzy,why try to fire and get pops and back fires do it right the first time and it will fire right away.U got me Frankish
 
thanks guys, I am just aggrivated with this car right now. I am rebuilding a car my son dragged in here that has been sitting for who know how long and it looks like someone has stripped the engine bay and everything else. I have not messed with Mopar engines since high school when I had a 69 dart swinger. they are a little different than Chevy. so bear with me when I seem short. I am going to have to get a 2 bbl carb and a gas tank before I can start this. I had my son pull the tank to see what it looked like inside and he told me it had rust in it.I dont like the looks of the 2 bbl Holley 2245 carb he has either. so it may be a month before it fires. Thanks for the info here. I had a brain fart earlier when I saw the 5 prong what I thought was the regulator connector and I knew it was a 2 prong turns out to be the ECU module. Someone took it and I never had one on my Duster because the MSD box took its place so I had to wire it in. will keep you all informed if I dont go nuts before.thanks
 
67Dart273 is right. Unless you are sure both valves of #1 cyl are closed (loose when you wiggle the rockers), you may be 180 deg off. It won't hurt the engine if off, but could get some back-fires out the intake. You can remove #1 spark plug and feel for the compression stroke as you turn it over by hand.

When you connected the plug wires to the cap did you do so in clockwise order? SB rotors turn cw viewed from above (fact check). I easily forget because my BB turns opposite. At least you aren't coming from working on engines where the crank spins backwards (Lincoln, I recall).

Another Mopar trivia is that SB & BB distributor caps are interchangeable. Many after-market caps have 2 labels for the #1 tower, with an arrow showing for which way the rotor turns. Of course where #1 sits depends on how you set your drive slot (you are correct now) and how you want to orient the distributor.
 
just sayin , by chance it isnt right and is popping through the carb, it is more than likely 180* out, thats all, it happens all the time to even to the seasoned
 
I will pull the valve cover and check to see if I get a wiggle. hell, here lately I can use all the wiggle I can get. thanks, I will check all this out before I turn the key. With all I have been through with this car, it might not do anything when I turn the key. Had to change the steering column too. who knows.
 
To make sure you have the distributor in right try the following:

1. Pull the #1 spark plug and put your finger over the hole while rotating the engine over by hand (or just listen for a hiss of air rushing out of the cylinder).
2. As you rotate the engine over by hand, the TDC timing mark will pass by twice for every 1 revolution of the cam….Once on the exhaust stroke (rotor facing 180° from #1), and once on the compression stroke with the rotor facing the #1 spark plug….this is when you should have air pushing your finger off the spark plug hole (compression stroke)…when the timing mark hits TDC on that revolution (compression stroke), set your distributor /rotor to point at the #1 spark plug wire.

The car should fire right up after that, and then just set your timing.
 
GUESS WHAT........ I have a wiggle in the rockers on no.1. guess I have it right huh. now when I get a gas tank and a carb, I will fire this puppy up and wake up my neighbors down the street, hehe
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
-

Back
Top