No brake lights

[JRT174]

No break lights,.. changed brake switch, new turn signal harness..tail lights and hazards work, I found a relay that's bad..
part# 3513211 has 3 prongs on one plug, and a single prong for one plug..
Might be a horn relay, any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

[TrailBeast]

Yep, that's a horn relay.
They can still be gotten from parts houses.

Check at your brake light switch and see if power is there at one terminal.
Also note if it looks like it's adjusted to work correctly while you are under there.

 

[JRT174]

Yep, that's a horn relay.
They can still be gotten from parts houses.

Check at your brake light switch and see if power is there at one terminal.
Also note if it looks like it's adjusted to work correctly while you are under there.

Thank you for your response, could there be a grounding issue, it's pluged in, but left it hanging,the button extended the brake lights should come on.. I will put a light on that plug in.. thank you trailBeast.

 

[AJ/FormS]

Stupid question perhaps but have you looked for voltage at the rear socket.
Oh wait! shortcut; do the signals work back there?

 

[Unconventional]

Fuse block

 

[harrisonm]

1. First, check to see if you have power going to the brake light switch (BLS). The BLS has two terminals; one of them is always hot (power in). When the brake pedal is depressed, a properly working BLS will allow current to flow out through the other terminal. So if you DO have power going into the BLS with the brake pedal all the way up, and you do NOT have power on the other terminal when the pedal is depressed, the brake light switch is bad. If you DO have power on the other terminal when the pedal is depressed, the problem is further downstream.
2. You need a helper for this step. Next, 'jump' the wires going into the two prong BLS plug. Assuming that one of them tested hot in #1, 'jumping' these together should send power to the brake lights. It's always a good idea to use a jumper wire with an inline fuse, but you gotta do what you gotta do. This is where your helper will come in handy. If there are still no brake lights, with the switch still jumped, pull brake light bulbs and test for power at the sockets (AKA pigtails). If there IS power in the pig tail, but no brake light, it is either a bad bulb or a bad ground. Test the bulbs right on the car battery by grounding the case to the "-" terminal and touching the bumps on the bottom with a jumper wire connected to the "+" terminal. If the bulb tests good, (remember this step assumes there is power to the pigtail), run a jump wire from a known good ground to actually touch the bulb casing while it is in the pigtail. If you DID have power to the pigtail, #2 should fix it.
3. If after step one you DO have power flowing out of the BLS, but there is no power in the back at all, you have a break in continuity somewhere. Check all plug ins (you will need a wiring diagram). Many people don't know that brake lights go through the turn signal switch and cancelling cam. The turn signal cancelling cam (TSCC) has 4 wires on the back side of it that stick out enough to make contact with 4 copper bumps under the TSCC. Depending on the position pf the turn signal switch, the wires hit bumps that distribute power to the appropriate brake light bulb. You have to pull the steering wheel for this, but it is no big deal. Try steps 1 and 2 and if you still have no brake lights, I will post text and pictures for step #3.

 

[67Dart273]

To add to the above^^ if you have power OUT of the brake light switch, and the turn signals work, IT IS A BAD column turn signal switch.

 

[JRT174]

1. First, check to see if you have power going to the brake light switch (BLS). The BLS has two terminals; one of them is always hot (power in). When the brake pedal is depressed, a properly working BLS will allow current to flow out through the other terminal. So if you DO have power going into the BLS with the brake pedal all the way up, and you do NOT have power on the other terminal when the pedal is depressed, the brake light switch is bad. If you DO have power on the other terminal when the pedal is depressed, the problem is further downstream.
2. You need a helper for this step. Next, 'jump' the wires going into the two prong BLS plug. Assuming that one of them tested hot in #1, 'jumping' these together should send power to the brake lights. It's always a good idea to use a jumper wire with an inline fuse, but you gotta do what you gotta do. This is where your helper will come in handy. If there are still no brake lights, with the switch still jumped, pull brake light bulbs and test for power at the sockets (AKA pigtails). If there IS power in the pig tail, but no brake light, it is either a bad bulb or a bad ground. Test the bulbs right on the car battery by grounding the case to the "-" terminal and touching the bumps on the bottom with a jumper wire connected to the "+" terminal. If the bulb tests good, (remember this step assumes there is power to the pigtail), run a jump wire from a known good ground to actually touch the bulb casing while it is in the pigtail. If you DID have power to the pigtail, #2 should fix it.
3. If after step one you DO have power flowing out of the BLS, but there is no power in the back at all, you have a break in continuity somewhere. Check all plug ins (you will need a wiring diagram). Many people don't know that brake lights go through the turn signal switch and cancelling cam. The turn signal cancelling cam (TSCC) has 4 wires on the back side of it that stick out enough to make contact with 4 copper bumps under the TSCC. Depending on the position pf the turn signal switch, the wires hit bumps that distribute power to the appropriate brake light bulb. You have to pull the steering wheel for this, but it is no big deal. Try steps 1 and 2 and if you still have no brake lights, I will post text and pictures for step #3.

I want to thank you, for all the effort you put into your replay.. I will do my best to follow your detailed instructions..again thank you.. JRT174

 

[JRT174]

Stupid question perhaps but have you looked for voltage at the rear socket.
Oh wait! shortcut; do the signals work back there?

Thank you for your response.. yes.. signals and hazards work.

 

[JRT174]

To add to the above^^ if you have power OUT of the brake light switch, and the turn signals work, IT IS A BAD column turn signal switch.

Thank you for your response.. I replaced the turn signal harness, I'm guessing, that what your referring to, as the turn signal switch..!!

 

[JRT174]

Fuse block

Thank you for your help.. fuss box is ok..

 

[AJ/FormS]

What 67 said

To add to the above^^ if you have power OUT of the brake light switch, and the turn signals work, IT IS A BAD column turn signal switch.

If you changed that T-sw it still doesn't matter. The brake lite power goes thru that T-sw . If power comes out of the brake sw, but does not arrive at the back bumper,then it got lost between the brake sw output and the T-sw output.
It's looking like that new switch is defective. And that may be more common than one might think. If the new T-sw is white plastic instead of nylon,or if you paid like 50 bucks or less for it, it is probably junk.Sometimes they are defective at the connector, but more often defective inside the sw itself.
I have repaired a couple. Try not to keep the brake-lite lit for long periods; the current thru the T-sw contacts tends to melt the plastic inside the sw and then it's done, cooked, melted,all gooed up.

 

[TrailBeast]

What 67 said.

It's looking like that new switch is defective. And that may be more common than one might think. If the new T-sw is white plastic instead of nylon,or if you paid like 50 bucks or less for it, it is probably junk.Sometimes they are defective at the connector, but more often defective inside the sw itself.

Ain't that the truth.
I had to "fix" mine right out of the box.

 

[JRT174]

Ain't that the truth.
I had to "fix" mine right out of the box.

Thank you.. I've called the sender about that.. I'm going to check that.. P.S does anyone else have trouble bringing up those that answer questions on this site.. lol.. some times I have a hell of a time getting to my answers from you all and responding.. I will always try to respond to all.. thanks again JRT174

 

[JRT174]

What 67 said


If you changed that T-sw it still doesn't matter. The brake lite power goes thru that T-sw . If power comes out of the brake sw, but does not arrive at the back bumper,then it got lost between the brake sw output and the T-sw output.
It's looking like that new switch is defective. And that may be more common than one might think. If the new T-sw is white plastic instead of nylon,or if you paid like 50 bucks or less for it, it is probably junk.Sometimes they are defective at the connector, but more often defective inside the sw itself.
I have repaired a couple. Try not to keep the brake-lite lit for long periods; the current thru the T-sw contacts tends to melt the plastic inside the sw and then it's done, cooked, melted,all gooed up.

Thank you AJ.. I called the sender.. I'm checking into that.. I guess we always expect new to work.. lol

 

[67Dart273]

You can easily check the switch right there at the column connector. I think the brake light going INTO the TS switch is white, but look it up. Look up the left and right rear turn wires, and simply check voltage

Centered, brake power should go to both left and right turn, one should drop out depending on left or right selected on the switch.

Somewhere around 1972, when stationed at NAS Miramar, I "fixed" 2 or 3 of these by changing some wiring on the switch (remove wheel) this disables the hazard flasher. Dont ask how that was over 45 years ago!!

 

[JRT174]

You can easily check the switch right there at the column connector. I think the brake light going INTO the TS switch is white, but look it up. Look up the left and right rear turn wires, and simply check voltage

Centered, brake power should go to both left and right turn, one should drop out depending on left or right selected on the switch.

Somewhere around 1972, when stationed at NAS Miramar, I "fixed" 2 or 3 of these by changing some wiring on the switch (remove wheel) this disables the hazard flasher. Dont ask how that was over 45 years ago!!

Thank you.. I will check that out.. its been a hassle trying to figure it out..

 

[RedFish]

Back in this era the wires to rear lights were a green and a yellow. This applied to most every domestic vehicle and aftermarket trailer harnesses. So... when the brake light switch is closed and the signal switch is centered, you should find power going up the column on a white wire and coming down on a yellow and a green. I recall 2 instances ( a Ford pickup and a Chevy van ) when we had to wait days for delivery of a new turn signal switch. For temporary patch and working brake lights, I shoved a shirt pin through these 3 wire casings. Inop turn signals the lesser of 2 evils.

 

[JRT174]

Back in this era the wires to rear lights were a green and a yellow. This applied to most every domestic vehicle and aftermarket trailer harnesses. So... when the brake light switch is closed and the signal switch is centered, you should find power going up the column on a white wire and coming down on a yellow and a green. I recall 2 instances ( a Ford pickup and a Chevy van ) when we had to wait days for delivery of a new turn signal switch. For temporary patch and working brake lights, I shoved a shirt pin through these 3 wire casings. Inop turn signals the lesser of 2 evils.

Thank you for responding.. it's been a pain in the you know what.. I really appreciate all of the responses I've received.. thanks again.. hopefully I'll get some time to mess with it again soon.

 

[75slant6]

Did you get it fixed? I just put another turn signal switch in my Duster and discovered the other day that my brake lights don't work... I'm hoping it's the brake light switch because this is the second turn signal switch I've installed and I don't wanna do it again. My turn signals finally lock into place and automatically cancel out but now no brake lights.... can't seem to win with these stupid switches (yes I used a oem switch)

 

[JRT174]

Did you get it fixed? I just put another turn signal switch in my Duster and discovered the other day that my brake lights don't work... I'm hoping it's the brake light switch because this is the second turn signal switch I've installed and I don't wanna do it again. My turn signals finally lock into place and automatically cancel out but now no brake lights.... can't seem to win with these stupid switches (yes I used a oem switch)

Thank you for taking the time to reply.. haven't messed with it lately... but it's getting to be that time again... thank you