Oil pressure and oiling issue?

[David Eldridge]

I have a 1970 Dart Swinger 318. On start up it sounds like there is engine knock/lifter chatter on start up if it's been sitting for more than a few hours. I have a mechanical oil pressure gauge in the car and it seems to take a couple of seconds for oil pressure to show once the car is started. As soon as pressure shows, the engine quiets right down. I'm running 10w30 oil in it, at cold it makes 50 psi at idle. When hot it makes 8-10psi. Is this normal? Could the delay of oil pressure have something to due with the oil pump or pickup. Or could it just possibly be that there is a little bit of extra clearance in the bearings due to the fact the engine has 126,000 miles on it and to my knowledge has never been pulled apart? Any input would be greatly appreciated!

 

[340dartley]

It sounds like excessive bearing clearance. She is a little tired. Be nice to it and start planning for your rebuild or replacement. It may run a long time like this if you take it easy on it.

 

[T56MaxTorq]

Do you have a 90 degree filter adapter??

 

[David Eldridge]

Do you have a 90 degree filter adapter??

Yes I do. Doesn't look like its leaking or anything

 

[yellow rose]

10w30 is too thin. Look how low your hot idle pressure is. By the time the oil gets to the rockers the pressure is near zero, or zero. Hell, it's probably near zero wth the lifters at idle.

20w50 in the spring/summer and 10w40 in the fall/winter. If it doesn't get much below 32*F where you live you can run a 15w50 year round. Or, spring for a good oil that is 5w50.

 

[David Eldridge]

10w30 is too thin. Look how low your hot idle pressure is. By the time the oil gets to the rockers the pressure is near zero, or zero. Hell, it's probably near zero wth the lifters at idle.

20w50 in the spring/summer and 10w40 in the fall/winter. If it doesn't get much below 32*F where you live you can run a 15w50 year round. Or, spring for a good oil that is 5w50.

Wont that thick oil take too long to get to the upper part of the engine?

 

[T56MaxTorq]

What kind of oil filter do you put in it? Always go with a quality filter, they have anti drain back valves that actually prevent drain back. Could be partly the issue. You have to constantly half-fill the oil filter every start.

 

[yellow rose]

Wont that thick oil take too long to get to the upper part of the engine?

Nope.

 

[David Eldridge]

What kind of oil filter do you put in it? Always go with a quality filter, they have anti drain back valves that actually prevent drain back. Could be partly the issue. You have to constantly half-fill the oil filter every start.

I only use Wix (NAPA Gold filters on my cars)

 

[yellow rose]

I only use Wix (NAPA Gold filters on my cars)

Nothing wrong with that filter. It's hard to beat.

 

[340dartley]

8 to 10 psi oil pressure at idle is a sign of a worn out motor. It takes longer to build pressure when there is excessive clearance in the crank and rod bearings. If he was building 20 to 30 at idle and warm I would be worrying about oil filter drain back.

 

[yellow rose]

8 to 10 psi oil pressure at idle is a sign of a worn out motor. It takes longer to build pressure when there is excessive clearance in the crank and rod bearings. If he was building 20 to 30 at idle and warm I would be worrying about oil filter drain back.

Or, it has full groove mains and a bit of wear.

I don't know when 30 grade oil became the do all be all end all grade of oil. The OP needs a different grade of oil. Not a rebuild unless there is trash in the oil and rods are knocking.

 

[David Eldridge]

8 to 10 psi oil pressure at idle is a sign of a worn out motor. It takes longer to build pressure when there is excessive clearance in the crank and rod bearings. If he was building 20 to 30 at idle and warm I would be worrying about oil filter drain back.

Or, it has full groove mains and a bit of wear.

I don't know when 30 grade oil became the do all be all end all grade of oil. The OP needs a different grade of oil. Not a rebuild unless there is trash in the oil and rods are knocking.

Just changed the oil. Looked fine to me. And yeah the engine runs great! Tons of power. Maybe i should go to 20w50

 

[yellow rose]

Just changed the oil. Looked fine to me. And yeah the engine runs great! Tons of power. Maybe i should go to 20w50

How cold does it get where you live in VA?

 

[David Eldridge]

How cold does it get where you live in VA?

It can get down into the teens.

 

[yellow rose]

It can get down into the teens.

Then like I said, you can use 10w40 in the fall and winter and 20w50 in the summer.

I'd have to look up how low a 10 winter grade oil is for but I'm sure it's down in the teens.

 

[rustycowll69]

couple things you could try that might help: next time when you drain the oil, try to put a bore scope in the drain hole, and have a look see. Another thing to try after warming engine oil up, is pull the oil filter first, use a rubber-tipped air nozzle and blow backwards thru the filter adapter hole and try to dislodge any stuff stuck in the oil pump pickup screen, and then drain out the oil. If you get any plastic chunks, they will likely be from the cam timing gear and/or the valve stem seals. If they look amber-colored, they're from the timing gear. If so, you might want to pull the mech fuel pump, and look in there with a borescope, paying attention to the teeth on the cam gear.
Another thing you can look for, which is not too invasive, is to pull valve covers off and make sure plugs are still in the ends of the rocker shafts ( LA, only).
Something you might want to try is reduce your fast idle a little so that it's not pounding the bearings so bad, with no oil on startup.

 

[twayne24365]

I agree with YR on a different oil..we always run Brad Penn 20-50.

 

[AJ/FormS]

126,000 is not that high a number,where I live. I've had engines with near twice that, and still had oil pressure, and no knock on start-up. Oh wait, I have 2.5 of them right now.
I'm not gonna disagree with anything already said, But I would be digging deeper if it was mine. I am suspecting multiple issues.
Also, be advised that factory teener timing gears seem to have a very short lifespan. I have seen them strip off teeth as early as 90,000 miles. At 126,000 you are long overdue. Also, the umbrella seals by now are probably all in the oil pick-up...........................

 

[nm9stheham]

Are your oil pressures reported at idle, or when cruising?

I'd start with the 10W40 and see where that gets you for pressure. Too thick an oil can cause pickup problems in the pump if it is worn.

Your lifters shouldn't tick if they are holding oil properly. Put in a pint of Marvel Mystery Oil in 100-200 miles prior to the next oil change and see if that cleans out the check valves and quiets them down.

 

[David Eldridge]

Are your oil pressures reported at idle, or when cruising?

I'd start with the 10W40 and see where that gets you for pressure. Too thick an oil can cause pickup problems in the pump if it is worn.

Your lifters shouldn't tick if they are holding oil properly. Put in a pint of Marvel Mystery Oil in 100-200 miles prior to the next oil change and see if that cleans out the check valves and quiets them down.

Yes. Oil pressures are at idle in drive. 50 psi cold. 8-10psi hot. Cruising hot I'm at about 37 psi. If I lay into it I'm at 40 psi hot.

 

[AJ/FormS]

DOH!

 

[sireland67]

I am with AJ on the timing gears, and valve seals.
I bet the oil pick up sounds like a baby rattle when removed.

 

[David Eldridge]

I am with AJ on the timing gears, and valve seals.
I bet the oil pick up sounds like a baby rattle when removed.

I'll have to take a look at the gear then, as well as take a look at the pickup and pump.

 

[AJ/FormS]

Yes. Oil pressures are at idle in drive. 50 psi cold. 8-10psi hot. Cruising hot I'm at about 37 psi. If I lay into it I'm at 40 psi hot.

Hang-on
My reply was before this tidbit came out. There's nothing wrong with numbers like that. The rule of thumb is 10 psi for every 1000 rpm. So cruising at 2500 say,at 65mph, would be 25 psi minimum. If you have 37 you have lots of pressure. What you probably have is lazy lifters, or a drain-back issue, both of which have already been addressed. Or maybe your engine is just too dang hot,lol.Or just maybe somebody put some Rhodes in there while you weren't around,lol
Checking the chain can be done by rocking the crank back and forth and waiting for the chain slack to be taken up in either direction, as the top sprocket meets resistance from the valve train. I have never seen a spec for this, but I will suggest that if you have more than a half an inch of rotation, maybe 5 degrees, the chain is about to blow. A quarter inch on a 340 chain is OK, but on a nylon tipped sprocket, this is already flirting with trouble.You have to practice rocking the balancer until you get the hang of it.The first few times you will likely go to far and actually turn the cam. Start over.It helps if you do this with the balancer TDC mark near the TDC index. Then you can watch the balancer bopping back and forth.