Ok so lets really talk K-members here Folks

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superdart said:
..I did a complete rebuild on mine and upgraded everything along the way. Is it perfect? No...Is it perfectly road-able? Hell-Yeah.
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What's not perfect about it?

What's your alignment specs? Is it an old p/s box? What size T-bars and sway bars do you have?
 
autoxcuda said:
Did you have manual steering before. Wonder what the weight difference was from a manual mopar box including centerlink, idler, pitman, tie rods, to a manual rack??

Anyone know how much more weight a typical power steering rack and pinion is from a manual rack?

Would be interesting to have some gun drilled T-bars. Yours might not weigh much, but my 1.14" T-bar are pretty heafty and weigh double what a /6 T-bar does.

Would also like to see a power steering box with 12:1 internal ratio and weighed 1/2 of a stock Mopar steering box.
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Hey Steve,

Its been a while since I weighed everything but off the top of my head I think the factory K frame weighs 40# and my chromoly one weighs 13. The rack weighs 4# with tie rod ends and the manual box with the associated hardware was something like 68 pounds. So there is a bunch of weight to loose. I dont have the info in front of me so these numbers may be wrong but its what I remember it to be.
 
turbodart68 said:
Hey Steve,

Its been a while since I weighed everything but off the top of my head I think the factory K frame weighs 40# and my chromoly one weighs 13. The rack weighs 4# with tie rod ends and the manual box with the associated hardware was something like 68 pounds. So there is a bunch of weight to loose. I dont have the info in front of me so these numbers may be wrong but its what I remember it to be.
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Is your rack front steer? I think the is the most costly/involved thing with a rack conversion. No ones has figure out a decent rear steer rack.

The Unisteer deal didn't seem to work out very well. And still pretty expensive.
 
autoxcuda said:
What's not perfect about it?

What's your alignment specs? Is it an old p/s box? What size T-bars and sway bars do you have?
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Really it's just the steering. I converted from power to manual (very happy) but it was a used box, so it is just a little loose (but very drivable).

As for the rest, the entire front and rear was rebuilt:
All Moog ball joints and rubber bushings (except strut rod, and rear leaf spring bushing, those are MP poly, and Firm Feel poly, respectively)
LCAs are boxed
Addco front and rear swaybars
MP .89 Torsion bars
MP HD Leaf Springs
KYB gas-a-just shocks
Also considered Firm Feel Tubular upper arms, but the cost didn't seem worth it on a street car with 15 inch tires.

There is a new steering column waiting to go in because I am converting to a floor shift setup. Since it is a manual steer column it will also allow me to get rid of the column adapter. Might consider a new box at that point, but this one has got me by for several years.
 
superdart said:
Really it's just the steering. I converted from power to manual (very happy) but it was a used box, so it is just a little loose (but very drivable).

As for the rest, the entire front and rear was rebuilt:
All Moog ball joints and rubber bushings (except strut rod, and rear leaf spring bushing, those are MP poly, and Firm Feel poly, respectively)
LCAs are boxed
Addco front and rear swaybars
MP .89 Torsion bars
MP HD Leaf Springs
KYB gas-a-just shocks
Also considered Firm Feel Tubular upper arms, but the cost didn't seem worth it on a street car with 15 tires.

There is a new steering column waiting to go in because I am converting to a floor shift setup. Since it is a manual steer column it will also allow me to get rid of the column adapter. Might consider a new box at that point, but this one has got me by for several years.
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Good well thought out choices. Good call on no tubular A-arms with that combo. And nice with the 360 518OD combo. A car you drive the hell out of.

Did you run the Moog 7103 offset bushings to get like 3 degrees of caster? Wouldn't go more than 3 with manual steering, especially if you have to parallel park the car or have a tight turning driveway. The increased caster can get rid of some of that slop feel. What are your allignment specs?
 
Oh man, don't get me lying. I think they are standard bushings, and I would have to dig out the alignment sheet. I just know it goes straight except for the play and doesn't wear the tires unevenly.
 
Wow, sure is alot of talk about K-members, come join us in the New years party thread :toothy10:
 
USCG CHARGER said:
Again small vendors need to learn about supply and demand... it still just blows my mind on the firm not staying in live with the curve. The law of demand states that, if all other factors remain equal, the higher the price of a good, the less people will demand that good. In other words, the higher the price, the lower the quantity demanded. The amount of a good that buyers purchase at a higher price is less because as the price of a good goes up, so does the opportunity cost of buying that good. As a result, people will naturally avoid buying a product that will force them to forgo the consumption of something else they value more.
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Not quite:

The classic economic model assumes two things that do not apply here. First, is that one is dealing with a normal good. Two, is perfect elasticity of demand.

  1. An A-body tubular front end is not a normal good. If it were possible to produce an unlimited supply of a first rate product at, for example, $250 each, not everyone can use one. Therefore, a lot will go unsold regardless of the price.
  2. If the price were to go to $50,000 per copy there are people who can and will pay the price, particularly if it involves the difference between winning, losing, or proving a point. This is not perfectly elastic demand in the classic sense.
Someone else mentioned litigation. When I worked for a Fortune 500 manufacturer, every part we sold had a litigation expense included in the price of the part (along with material, labor, and packaging). There are different strategies for dealing with this expense (from the "ostrich" approach to the "chicken little" approach). Ultimately this is a subjective assignment of risk to the part that might result from litigation due to its failure at some point. It's a SWAG at best as the rules of lawsuits, and the potential awards, for damages vary from state to state. How the seller chooses to address the potential for loss is reflected in the asking price of his/her/its product.

The entire hobby is not about rationality, it's about passion for preserving history in restoring and operating nearly 40 year-old machines. Those of us involved with A-body Chrysler products are fortunate to still be able to draw on the resources of the manufacturer and the people who designed and built the products. If you want to see real passion, look at those who are restoring vehicles that have neither of our advantages.
 
TShell said:
The more I read, the more I learn.....I realize not everyone will like everything that's put out there. I've put alot of thought and effort into this K Member and I feel it's quite comparable to others on the market today. Can things be improved, of course! This was something I made for myself and thought there might be other mopars guys interested, that's why I'm sharing it. For those of you that are interested, I am willing to hear and work anyone interested, for those of you not interested, so be it. Wouldn't it be a boring world if we all had the same ideas, thoughts.....and CARS!

Tory
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so, if im understanding this right, youre the guy building for johnparts, right? if so, id love to se some pictures fo what youve got going on.

also, have you canged any of the suspension points to alter geometry, and why?

Michael
 
2 Darts said:
Not quite:

The classic economic model assumes two things that do not apply here. First, is that one is dealing with a normal good. Two, is perfect elasticity of demand.

  1. An A-body tubular front end is not a normal good. If it were possible to produce an unlimited supply of a first rate product at, for example, $250 each, not everyone can use one. Therefore, a lot will go unsold regardless of the price.
  2. If the price were to go to $50,000 per copy there are people who can and will pay the price, particularly if it involves the difference between winning, losing, or proving a point. This is not perfectly elastic demand in the classic sense.
....
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Thank you. I knew the somehow that law didn't apply 100% here. Couldn't remember my Econ class stuff. There is sort of a market saturation point so to speak.

Just like that case were Johnparts' company had the viper rear end upgrade kit for $5995. If it were $2000 there would be only so many buyers. Heck even it it were $100 there wouldn't be too many buyer, just because what is involved with automatic associated costs of installing one.
 
2 Darts said:
Not quite:

The classic economic model assumes two things that do not apply here. First, is that one is dealing with a normal good. Two, is perfect elasticity of demand.

  1. An A-body tubular front end is not a normal good. If it were possible to produce an unlimited supply of a first rate product at, for example, $250 each, not everyone can use one. Therefore, a lot will go unsold regardless of the price.
  2. If the price were to go to $50,000 per copy there are people who can and will pay the price, particularly if it involves the difference between winning, losing, or proving a point. This is not perfectly elastic demand in the classic sense.
Someone else mentioned litigation. When I worked for a Fortune 500 manufacturer, every part we sold had a litigation expense included in the price of the part (along with material, labor, and packaging). There are different strategies for dealing with this expense (from the "ostrich" approach to the "chicken little" approach). Ultimately this is a subjective assignment of risk to the part that might result from litigation due to its failure at some point. It's a SWAG at best as the rules of lawsuits, and the potential awards, for damages vary from state to state. How the seller chooses to address the potential for loss is reflected in the asking price of his/her/its product.

The entire hobby is not about rationality, it's about passion for preserving history in restoring and operating nearly 40 year-old machines. Those of us involved with A-body Chrysler products are fortunate to still be able to draw on the resources of the manufacturer and the people who designed and built the products. If you want to see real passion, look at those who are restoring vehicles that have neither of our advantages.
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Actually a tubular K fame is a normal good... look at all the chevy and ford guys running them... thats what this thread was original intended to say... why are Mopars product so gouged? It's gouged because the companies don't follow economic rules.
 
What the heck is it with all the Doubters?? Negativeness?? Forget the talk and do it is my motto always. Some of you guys need to try it sometime. This stuff is NOT rocket science and CAN be done correctly!!
 
Wow who cares who is opposed to a good and cheap k frame for a mopar. Thier not gonna be a customer anyway. And all this economic double talk is just that.

It sounds like exactly the kind of talk that comes up to cloud and confuse an issue.

The real point as stated is mopar guys are being gouged plain and simple. Nobody can try to spin doctor/lie thier way around that.
 
needsaresto said:
Wow who cares who is opposed to a good and cheap k frame for a mopar. Thier not gonna be a customer anyway. And all this economic double talk is just that.

It sounds like exactly the kind of talk that comes up to cloud and confuse an issue.

The real point as stated is mopar guys are being gouged plain and simple. Nobody can try to spin doctor/lie thier way around that.
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Again plain and simple thank you.
 
Your welcome. It seemed to me that the thread was losing focus.

So any idea on how long it will be until the k frames are to market?
 
HemiDenny said:
Hi guys....good thread.....I just wanted to answer Johnparts that I'm pretty sure RMS modifies a stock (front steer) Mustang II spindle to slightly increase ackerman and to correct(adjust) the bump steer for his design.....keep in mind I've been called "the fountain of mis-information"....I personally think the RMS unit is great(although I like to keep the front wheels tucked in as far as possible)...he debuted a torsion bar unit at the Nats that was above suspesion.I'm really surprised no one mentions it...no coilovers,no relocating upper shock mount...nice.....but of course "pricey".I 'm not sure who brought it up...but I agree the biggest issue in pricing a "modified" front end piece is "liability insurance"....sure would hate to lose the farm just to save someone some bucks. It's unfortune you can't change over with just a K-frame...sure would made it cheaper...and easier.
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Denny I'm basing my statement off of pictures in the instruction manual he has posted on his sight. The Mustang 2 spindles I have seen are all rear steer and it appears that he cuts off the steering arm and welds a new steering arm to the spindle. And at that point there is no "double shear" like most have complained about in previous posts in these threads.

I again am not knocking Bill or RMS. I have modified spindles to suit my needs in the past before as well. It's actually a common practice
 
needsaresto said:
Your welcome. It seemed to me that the thread was losing focus.

So any idea on how long it will be until the k frames are to market?
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Well for small block guys pretty quick. For 3rd gen Hemi guys it will be when ever I get done with my mock up of motor mounts and Tory finishes welding it up for me.
 
Absolutely.

needsaresto said:
Wow who cares who is opposed to a good and cheap k frame for a mopar. Thier not gonna be a customer anyway. And all this economic double talk is just that.

It sounds like exactly the kind of talk that comes up to cloud and confuse an issue.

The real point as stated is mopar guys are being gouged plain and simple. Nobody can try to spin doctor/lie thier way around that.
Click to expand...
 
johnparts said:
Well for small block guys pretty quick. For 3rd gen Hemi guys it will be when ever I get done with my mock up of motor mounts and Tory finishes welding it up for me.
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So a small block K would be what I want in order to use the shumacher bb conversion mounts I have. Im asuming the motor will mount in a stock location?
 
First of all, this is a free market system if the price of the alterkation was too high, mr reilly would be out of business, seems like he is doing ok, through a recesion, just saying.

Johns parts, you the consumer don't like what is going on, you think you can build a better mouse trap, for cheaper. Good, thats how the system works, just don't find out the hard way that is that price for a reason, all though I doubt it.

USCG Charger, what you spouted off where principles and not laws, do you know the difference college boy? That fact that you said you have a MBA is pompous and arbitrary, I bet you took Micro and Macro economics and thats it, if you tell me you understood them you are flat lying. You are not an economist and even if you were it wouldn't matter, economics is like politics and philosophy, no right answer just a ton of opinions on interpretation. ENOUGH TALK OF ECONOMICS, ITS GAY TO DO THAT ON A CAR FORUM. The market will decide if his price is too high.

But why all the fuss to get a tubular K member, I mean really, WTF? I don't know why some guys get caught up on thinking they need stuff that doesn't really matter. People successfully raced these cars with torsion bars, once again WTF? And dont ask the guy that bought one he is not going to admit how stupid of a purchase it was, he is 5 grand into the deal. Do you think there aren't days when he says," oh yea 5 grand it was totally worth it, my bills can wait". I mean if you got money to blow then do it, but for an average guy making average money, its just stupid.
 
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