Operation /6 - Where do I begin? Fix it or yank it?

-
TheWhiteBuffalo

TheWhiteBuffalo

Very Confused
Joined
Mar 18, 2013
Messages
49
Reaction score
0
Location
King George, VA
Hello all,

I just picked up a 73 Scamp rust bucket. I fell in love with the car and picked it up pretty cheap. As the story goes, I finally got it home and had a chance to really look it over, and she has more rust than I hoped.

Anyways, under the hood is a Slant six (225). The previous owner advised that there was a "timing chain problem" and that he started to disassemble the motor. It appears that he got down to the timing chain and then stopped (for an unknown reason).

I am not mechanically inclined, so I will be searching Craigslist for some help. The question is, should I install a new timing chain (I don't see anything visibly wrong with it) and reassemble, then figure out what is wrong with the motor? Or should I just yank the engine and look for a replacement slant 6?

I have attached some photos that were taken with my iPad, so I'm sorry for the poor resolution. I'm just looking for some advice on how I should proceed. Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

P.S- sorry for the upside down picture. Stupid iPad! I will have to try and fix that as soon as I get to a PC.
 

Attachments

  • image.jpg
    115.2 KB · Views: 218
I would check the chain that is on it to see if the timing marks are still lined up first. If they are I would do a dry and then a wet compression test followed up by a leak down test. That would give you some idea if it is worth looking any deeper in to.

If I was going to yank the /6 out I would just find a small block and go that way instead.
 
By the looks of it, there seems to be quite a lot of slop in the chain. It would be a good idea to change it. I'm pretty sure you can get get a timing chain kit (chain and gears) from you local auto parts store for less than $30.
 
Great info so far. I will definitely find someone local who can do those tests.

After reading the response, I went out an took a look. There is definitely a lot of slop in the chain.

Does that happen with all of them and could that have been the problem? I'm not lucky enough to throw a timing kit on there and get away with it. My luck is terrible.

I'm going to look again and see if I can figure out where the timing marks are. This is all very foreign to me.

Thanks again for taking the time to help.
 
Do yourself a favor and look for a factory service manual.E-bay,Craigs List or ask in the parts wanted right here.Be willing to read,,and re-read. It will tell you everything you need to know.
Back to the timing chain,,on the large gear are any of the teeth chipped,broken or missing completely? If not and you don't see so much slack in the chain that it is possible to skip the teeth on the lower gear,, I would look elsewhere for the problem.The distributor drive gear on a slant is plastic and may be worn or broken.This will act just like a timing chain problem.Form the looks of your picture even though not the greatist , I don't think the chain caused the problem of the engine not running. But it's apart and they don't cost much so I would install new parts.I have great respect that you are willing to take on such a challange knowing little about cars.We all got to start some where.Go for it !
 
Darter6 is right. Find a good manual for the car or one that is motor specific. Replacing the timing chain and reassembly should be easy, its already apart and the chain and gears should slide off once you remove the bolt at the center of the large gear.
 
TheWhiteBuffalo said:
Great info so far. I will definitely find someone local who can do those tests.

After reading the response, I went out an took a look. There is definitely a lot of slop in the chain.

Does that happen with all of them and could that have been the problem? I'm not lucky enough to throw a timing kit on there and get away with it. My luck is terrible.

I'm going to look again and see if I can figure out where the timing marks are. This is all very foreign to me.

Thanks again for taking the time to help.
Click to expand...

You can get the compression guage on the free tool loan program at most parts stores and that is real easy to do. The 1973 Plymouth factory service manual will be your best friend plus searching FABO and asking questions you will learn what is going on with your car. Keep in mind most of us started out exactly where you are. We have learned through the years by others that passed on information, factory service manuals and getting our hands dirty. Don't waste your money on a Haynes or Chilton manual because they are too generic and fail to cover information you will need while giving you other information that won't help you on your car.
 
Yesterday, I spent most of the morning cleaning out the ol' Scamp. Under the drivers side seat I found a large pile of paperwork. To make a long story short, I contacted the former owner of the vehicle.

He advised that the car was going to be a project car for his 16 year old son. They purchased the car from an old lady who rarely drove it. The vehicle sat for long periods of time and on the day of purchase, they noticed that the oil looked like it hadn't been changed in a very long time. The father told me that his son wanted to drive the car home. Needless to say, instead of taking it easy on the car, he drove it like a madman. When the son pulled in the driveway back at home, the car was only firing on three cylinders.

The father stated that he filled the motor with kerosene to really clean it out. He changed the plugs and adjusted the valves, and the motor ran like a champ.

The son took the car out and like a teen boy would, pushed the car like it was a V8. The son brought the car home and told his dad that it had developed a knock. The father said he tested the cylinders and determined that it was not a loose rod. He believed that the timing chain might be the culprit. He tore the motor down and soon after the son lost interest in the project.

With that info in mind, I'm still undecided on trying to fix the motor or just locate a new one. Around these parts, 318's are plentiful but old Slant six motors are scarce. I hate tough decisions!

Thanks for all of the help. This forum will help me keep my sanity....lol
 
Well im all for a slanty . but if i didnt have 2 good running slantys for my car i would drop a 318 in it
 
Shop manual:

So far as the "mechanical stuff," you can download a 72 manual from here for free:

(Thank AbodyJoe, not me)

[ame]http://www.abodyjoe.com/pictures/Misc.%20car%20info/1972%20Plymouth%20Chassis%20Serv%20Man.pdf[/ame]

Do NOT go much by the wiring diagrams as 73 and 72 had some differences, but they would be of some help
 
A new timing set is cheap and easy to install. You will have more trouble getting the oil pan to seal on the timing cover. I would be inclined to pull the oil pan (jack engine up first for clearance) and install a new full pan gasket. That would give a chance to inspect the lower end. You can even change the rod and main bearings, and rear seal from below; at least I did on my 383.

If you don't want to invest $15 in a HF compression gage kit, you can get a good feel for the engine's quality by turning it over by hand. If you must fight 3 good "air springs" each rev, you know compression is good. If you hear each one hold pressure and hiss down over <10 secs, that is "like new" condition.

Don't believe that dropping a small block in is as easy or cheap as others suggest. That takes a lot of parts and fairly high skill.
 
BillGrissom said:
A new timing set is cheap and easy to install. You will have more trouble getting the oil pan to seal on the timing cover. I would be inclined to pull the oil pan (jack engine up first for clearance) and install a new full pan gasket. That would give a chance to inspect the lower end. You can even change the rod and main bearings, and rear seal from below; at least I did on my 383.

If you don't want to invest $15 in a HF compression gage kit, you can get a good feel for the engine's quality by turning it over by hand. If you must fight 3 good "air springs" each rev, you know compression is good. If you hear each one hold pressure and hiss down over <10 secs, that is "like new" condition.

Don't believe that dropping a small block in is as easy or cheap as others suggest. That takes a lot of parts and fairly high skill.
Click to expand...


That is great advice. I'm going to order the timing kit off of ebay is since I can't seem to find it local. I will also grab the gasket.

Once the parts arrive, I will probably have a million questions about the timing marks (which I just can't seem to see). I'm hoping that the job isn't too difficult but I guess I will cross that bridge when the parts arrive.

Thanks to everyone for the help.
 
I hope he didnt drive it full of kerosene....but I bet slant would even survive that! Keeop the slant. V8, trans, then rear, then disk brakes, it keeps going......as does the 6 once you fix it.
 
TheWhiteBuffalo said:
That is great advice. I'm going to order the timing kit off of ebay is since I can't seem to find it local. I will also grab the gasket.

Once the parts arrive, I will probably have a million questions about the timing marks (which I just can't seem to see). I'm hoping that the job isn't too difficult but I guess I will cross that bridge when the parts arrive.

Thanks to everyone for the help.
Click to expand...


Timing set. Crank Sprocket, Cam Sprocket And Chain.

Oreilly Auto Parts $25.99

Cloyes - Timing Set
Part Number: C3022K
http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/d...rch_timing+set_1241941_164&keyword=timing+set

AutoZone $25.99

Unknown brand
Part Number: 73022
Alternate Part Number: C-3022K

Advance $26.49

Unknown brand
Part No. 73022
 
As some others have said, it's not that cheap to grab a small block and just "drop" it in.
My car is 7 years older than yours so I know the problems are not identical but I am just about done "dropping" mine in and so far, beside the engine, I have had to get a tranny, motor mounts, center link, correct exhaust manifolds, exhaust system and I'm not sure if my current radiator will be adequate or not. And all this depends on how complete and what condition your "drop-in" engine is in. There is stuff like carb, fuel pump, water pump, distributor and many other things I can't think of right now.

On the other hand, if you have to completely rebuild the /6,all that machine work and new parts for it aren't going to be cheap either.

Not trying to scare you but just being realistic. Ideally, since you say 318's are common in you area, you could find a complete one running for a good price to minimize your costs. I don't think 318's command a lot of money cause everyone wants a 340 or 360.

Sorry I got carried away here.
 
Thanks for all of the info. I really appreciate those part numbers too!

I'm going to replace the chain and the "top" sprocket this weekend. It is my understanding that the bottom sprocket requires a puller.

As far as the timing marks go, is there any way to explain to a "noob" on what I should be looking for (I.E; both marks should be at 6 o' clock)?

I am going to put the chain on, seal on the cover, and then crank her over without the radiator being in there (but just for a second). I'm trying to get a feel on whether the motor has any life left in it.

Thanks again or helping a newbie.
 
Disregard my previous post. I popped a few Xanax and have come back to earth. :drinkers:

I'm going to hire someone who knows what they are doing. The last thing I need is to screw everything up worse than it already is.

The good news is that I have secured the timing chain set, cover gasket, oil pan gasket, and some other gasket that looks really important. :p

I will pick up some oil, a filter, and a few tubes of red sealant and I should be ready for a pro to piece her together. I will ask for prayers after I get it all assembled.
 
Don't fret, you only learn by doing and this isn't a tough job. It would be smart to get a manual though (factory or Haynes).

I don't recall ever doing it on a slant, but I expect the same as my small and big blocks, which I have done. The lower sprocket should just slide off. It isn't pressed on, but you may need to spray WD-40 and a little wiggling to free crud. A simple puller could help, especially if rusted together. You need to slide the two sprockets and chain back on together, since the new chain is tight and things will barely fit (good). There is usually a step on the crankshaft which helps get it started.

Re clocking, the two dots on each sprocket should be next to each other, both on a line between the 2 sprocket centers. At that point, the #6 piston should be at TDC on compression stroke, with #1 at TDC on exhaust stroke. You don't really need to check that since "get 2 dots together" is the only rule you need. I just mention it since it most people ASSume that it should be #1 at TDC compression (I did). Custom timing sets often have multiple dot sets for special settings, which can be confusing, but I haven't seen that for a slant and probably not at the $30 price.

As mentioned, I think you need an "oil slinger" on the crank. At least SB's have that, though I don't recall one on my BB. For sure change the front seal. It is easy to beat out with a hammer & screwdriver, but support the cover well so you don't bend it. Use a big socket or similar to knock the new one in. The seal should come in the "timing gasket" set.

Finally, this is an opportune time to consider changing your camshaft and lifters. It would be a shame to have to do all this again if they are worn out. If you have the removable spark plug tubes (I think 74 does), you can remove the lifters out the top with the head on, by just sliding your hand down. I would pull the valve cover and pull each out to inspect. If shiny on the bottom and no rough spots or grooves, they should be fine.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
-

Back
Top