Park lamps iluminate with brakes

Electrical and Ignition

  1. 66Dirtydart

    66Dirtydart Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    105
    Likes Received:
    57
    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2019
    Location:
    Tacoma, WA
    Local Time:
    12:20 AM
    Hey Guys, I'm wondering if anyone could help point me in the right direction with an electrical problem I'm having. I've found similar issues guys have had with the search function, but they seem to be related to the hazard flasher circuit.

    This is a 1964 Valiant - no hazards. When I activate the brake lights, my park lamps come on. I'm working by myself so at this point I'm not sure if its the turn signal filament or if they're actually the park lamps. I am not aware of any other lighting issues other than no license plate lamp.

    Things I've tried so far:
    • I've replaced the turn signal switch and harness. This was suggested in a few forum posts as well as at a local Mopar restoration parts dealer. They sold me a new unit and the problem has persisted.
    • Brake light switch replaced.
    • Headlight switch pulled, contacts cleaned and connector inspected.
    • Not that I thought it was related, but the turn signal flasher was replaced.
    Any suggestions? Thank you!
     
  2. 1994redram

    1994redram FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

    Messages:
    1,302
    Likes Received:
    721
    Joined:
    May 9, 2012
    Location:
    Oklahoma
    Local Time:
    2:20 AM
    Remove the tail/brake light bulbs and see if the park lights still light up when you apply the brakes. One of the bulbs might not be sitting in the socket properly and its "back feeding" the park light circuit when the brake lights come on.

    Been there, done that!
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Like Like x 1
    • 66Dirtydart

      66Dirtydart Well-Known Member

      Messages:
      105
      Likes Received:
      57
      Joined:
      Aug 20, 2019
      Location:
      Tacoma, WA
      Local Time:
      12:20 AM
      Man, if that turns out to be the issue.. :BangHead: :lol:

      I'll go check it out now, thank you.

      Edit: Pulled the bulbs and the issue is still there. Thanks for the suggestion, though.
       
      Last edited: Apr 26, 2020
    • Demonracer

      Demonracer 71 Demon 00 Ram 16 Chrysler 300S 05 Caravan FABO Gold Member

      Messages:
      4,880
      Likes Received:
      2843
      Joined:
      Jan 31, 2010
      Location:
      Cleveland, Texas
      Local Time:
      2:20 AM
      Get a Power Probe & begin running the wires one at a time, unless someone else has a better idea.
       
      • Like Like x 1
      • Dana67Dart

        Dana67Dart Like a fine wine, only getting better with age! FABO Gold Member

        Messages:
        6,142
        Likes Received:
        4007
        Joined:
        Jul 16, 2017
        Location:
        Northern Colorado
        Local Time:
        1:20 AM
        What if anything has been done to the electrical system, before the part changes you stated above
         
      • 66Dirtydart

        66Dirtydart Well-Known Member

        Messages:
        105
        Likes Received:
        57
        Joined:
        Aug 20, 2019
        Location:
        Tacoma, WA
        Local Time:
        12:20 AM
        It looks like it had an aftermarket stereo in it at one point, I see a lot of cut speaker wires. Other than that, I installed a GM HEI and relay, but the problem was there before I ever started that project.
         
      • 66Dirtydart

        66Dirtydart Well-Known Member

        Messages:
        105
        Likes Received:
        57
        Joined:
        Aug 20, 2019
        Location:
        Tacoma, WA
        Local Time:
        12:20 AM
        This isn't really the thread for it, but I've been tinkering away with her for the last 2 months. Rebuilt carb, new fuel pump, electronic distributor, head gasket, de-gunked the rocker shaft and reinstalled/lashed valves, New fuel tank, new sending unit, rebuilt the cluster.... She's looking better every day! Hasn't been on the road since '04.
         
      • 66Dirtydart

        66Dirtydart Well-Known Member

        Messages:
        105
        Likes Received:
        57
        Joined:
        Aug 20, 2019
        Location:
        Tacoma, WA
        Local Time:
        12:20 AM
        Should've attached pictures. :lol:

        20200418_201244.jpg

        20200425_185246.jpg

        20200307_154628.jpg
         
      • Dana67Dart

        Dana67Dart Like a fine wine, only getting better with age! FABO Gold Member

        Messages:
        6,142
        Likes Received:
        4007
        Joined:
        Jul 16, 2017
        Location:
        Northern Colorado
        Local Time:
        1:20 AM
        Every thing is looking good.

        Let's be sure you really have an issue.

        With headlight switch all the way in.

        Go look at all parking, turn signal and break lights.

        All should be off

        Next pull headlight switch to first stop(parking lights) do the same as above,
        Front parking lights should be on, rear lights should be on but dim.

        With switch in the same position, use a block of wood or something to force the brake pedal down so the brake lights are on.

        Check the lights, front parking lights should be on, rear brake lights should be brighter then before.

        Now pull headlight switch to full on position, release the brake pedal.

        Check lights, headlights should be on, front parking lights may or may not be on, the rear brake lights should be on but dim.

        Now pull headlight switch to full on position, depress the brake pedal.

        Check lights, headlights should be on, front parking lights may or may not be on, the rear brake lights should be on brighter.
         
        • Thanks! Thanks! x 1
        • TrailBeast

          TrailBeast AKA Mopars4us on Youtube

          Messages:
          21,622
          Likes Received:
          9375
          Joined:
          Mar 11, 2011
          Location:
          Arizona
          Local Time:
          12:20 AM
          Find the harness connector under the right kick panel and disconnect it.
          Then try your brakes.
          If the front part lights come on with that disconnected the problem is not in the rear of the car, but forward of that connector.

          If the brake lights don't make the park lights come on with that harness plug loose then the problem is in the wires, sockets or grounding of the brake lights.

          In fact it is very likely a ground issue at the rear bulb housings.

          Take the lenses off and get a ground wire connected to the body of the car.
          Put something on your brake pedal to make the brakes stay on with the parking lights lit.
          Then touch your ground wire to the base of each bulb.
          The one that makes the park lights go off is the culprit.

          The way I explain it makes it a one man job, but if you have a helper capable of pushing the brakes for you is all the better.
           
          • Thanks! Thanks! x 1
          • Agree Agree x 1
          • 66Dirtydart

            66Dirtydart Well-Known Member

            Messages:
            105
            Likes Received:
            57
            Joined:
            Aug 20, 2019
            Location:
            Tacoma, WA
            Local Time:
            12:20 AM
            Alright guys, I "borrowed" a dressing mirror from the wife (she doesn't know she agreed to this) and propped it up in front of the grill.

            Should the car have had running lights while the headlights are on? I'm going to guess no - however that is what I'm seeing.

            I was able to confirm that the brake switch does indeed light the front blinkers, not running lights. This occurs when the headlight switch is in all 3 positions.

            I did run into some wiring &@$#ery that I didn't notice before... See photo. I'm guessing someone mickey moused wiring to illuminate the running lights with the headlights?

            20200426_163322.jpg
             
          • Dana67Dart

            Dana67Dart Like a fine wine, only getting better with age! FABO Gold Member

            Messages:
            6,142
            Likes Received:
            4007
            Joined:
            Jul 16, 2017
            Location:
            Northern Colorado
            Local Time:
            1:20 AM
            I bet you found your problem.

            On 67 darts the front running light is a single filliment bulb it is off when the headlights are on. When the turn signal is blinking to flashes.


            I'm confused, do you have a seperate light bulb for front turn signal, and another bulb for the front running light
             
            • Thanks! Thanks! x 1
            • 66Dirtydart

              66Dirtydart Well-Known Member

              Messages:
              105
              Likes Received:
              57
              Joined:
              Aug 20, 2019
              Location:
              Tacoma, WA
              Local Time:
              12:20 AM
              Drivers side wiring... Held on literally by a strand. There are a couple of additional wires that were spliced in and then cut. Why me? Lol

              I'll get these patched up and then trace the wiring through the firewall.

              20200426_165423.jpg

              20200426_165435.jpg
               
            • 66Dirtydart

              66Dirtydart Well-Known Member

              Messages:
              105
              Likes Received:
              57
              Joined:
              Aug 20, 2019
              Location:
              Tacoma, WA
              Local Time:
              12:20 AM
              Sorry if I didn't explain that well. No, only one bulb - initially I wasn't sure if the brakes were activating the blinker (brighter) filament or the running lights (dimmer filament). Turns out it's the blinker part of the circuit.
               
            • Tooljunkie

              Tooljunkie King of cobble/master of the broken bolt FABO Gold Member

              Messages:
              17,960
              Likes Received:
              18637
              Joined:
              Jul 22, 2017
              Location:
              Manitoba
              Local Time:
              2:20 AM
              Check your hazard switch. It will do that if its on. If flasher is dead you wouldnt know its in either.
               
            • toolmanmike

              toolmanmike FABO MODERATOR Staff Member FABO Gold Member

              Messages:
              58,174
              Likes Received:
              45290
              Joined:
              Jan 18, 2006
              Location:
              Iowa
              Local Time:
              2:20 AM
              I'm afraid we can't help you much until you fix up that mess. You need a factory manual or a wiring diagram.
               
              • Like Like x 1
              • 66Dirtydart

                66Dirtydart Well-Known Member

                Messages:
                105
                Likes Received:
                57
                Joined:
                Aug 20, 2019
                Location:
                Tacoma, WA
                Local Time:
                12:20 AM
                I think I've got it figured out, guys. I didn't investigate all of the wiring laying about in the trunk while I was welding in my spare tire floor, but the added wiring up front runs all the way to the back and is spliced into the brake lights. Holy cow, that's annoying. I appreciate all of your guys' feedback.

                Time to get the soldering iron back out.
                 
              • 67Dart273

                67Dart273 FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

                Messages:
                47,864
                Likes Received:
                15842
                Joined:
                Oct 14, 2010
                Location:
                Idaho
                Local Time:
                12:20 AM
                This is not true. All 12V Mopars of this era use a dual filament park/ signal bulb, same as tail/ stop/ turn bulbs, 1034 or 1157. IT IS NOT powered unless the headlight switch is in "park" so you are correct, they are not powered with the headlights on, but they are still same bulb

                ON a side note, all "Ma" did when the later cars have headlights/ park lights both on, is move the park wire over to the "tail" position. Later cars use same HL switch, just the P terminal is unused.
                 
                • Like Like x 1
                • TrailBeast

                  TrailBeast AKA Mopars4us on Youtube

                  Messages:
                  21,622
                  Likes Received:
                  9375
                  Joined:
                  Mar 11, 2011
                  Location:
                  Arizona
                  Local Time:
                  12:20 AM
                  So let me ask you this Del.
                  If he hits the brakes and the front turn filaments light, isn't that the turn signal switch jacked up? (assuming the grounds are ok everywhere)
                   
                • 66Dirtydart

                  66Dirtydart Well-Known Member

                  Messages:
                  105
                  Likes Received:
                  57
                  Joined:
                  Aug 20, 2019
                  Location:
                  Tacoma, WA
                  Local Time:
                  12:20 AM
                  In this case, someone who worked on the car before I bought it ran wire from the turn signals all the way back to the tail/brake lights. The park lamp filament lit up in both headlight switch positions, and when the brakes were applied the turn signal filament lit.

                  The added wiring was removed and everything works now. I did replace the turn signal switch attempting to fix the problem earlier this week.
                   
                  • Like Like x 1
                  • TrailBeast

                    TrailBeast AKA Mopars4us on Youtube

                    Messages:
                    21,622
                    Likes Received:
                    9375
                    Joined:
                    Mar 11, 2011
                    Location:
                    Arizona
                    Local Time:
                    12:20 AM
                    Oh, well that explains it doesn't it?:D
                    Nice.
                     
                    • Like Like x 1
                    • rms492

                      rms492 Well-Known Member

                      Messages:
                      155
                      Likes Received:
                      20
                      Joined:
                      Mar 9, 2012
                      Location:
                      CA
                      Local Time:
                      12:20 AM
                      Actually, I've thought about "front braking lamps" for many years. Let's say you're turning left at an unprotected (no left turn arrow), and you're waiting for cars to pass by. Suddenly, the light turns yellow. IS THAT CAR coming towards you at 45mph going to STOP or BLOW THE YELLOW? Meanwhile, you either take a risk and HOPE the driver stops, so you can complete your turn, or you wait in the middle of the intersection not sure what to do. It can be quite scary to wait in the middle of an intersection during these few seconds. I think front braking lights, illuminated yellow using the parking light, could work. This would assure you (the driver turning left), that the car coming towards you is BRAKING and will allow you to complete your turn safely. I think this should be required on all automobiles, we need some kind of system that has front braking lights for these types of situations. Could also be useful for pedestrians.
                       
                    1. This site uses cookies to help personalize content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
                      By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.