pics please of your holley 1920 set up and linkage

[nashvegas99]

Hey there, still pretty new on here but needing some help. I have had a whale of a time with my 1965 valiant. It has stock 225 slant 6 in it and after a lengthy battle to get her started i finally did and then she died. Heard some gurgling in the carb and there was some serious white smoke coming out of it. tought maybe i had the idle screw too far out and it was leaving the throttle open a little so i removed the throttle spring from the rod that comes through the firewall (with the v shaped wedge on it) and the spring broke of course. I closed the throttle as much as i could but there was still a drip of gas coming out of the center blades in a continous steady slow drip. i think that is causing a flooding out problem and she wont restart. So, i would love to have some pics of your carb and the spring locations and is there springs on the choke or whatever. more to come later w/ a ton more questions. thanks.

 

[2 Darts]

Here's the one I had on my 73.

 

[nashvegas99]

that looks a little different than mine. I have the choke that sets in the little cup on the intake manifold. thank you for sending that pic

 

[64DartGTinAZ]

These should look more like your setup (from my '64 Dart)

 

[nashvegas99]

that is pretty close. what is that rod coming off of the return spring holder?

 

[nashvegas99]

also, what kind of carb and series is that one?

 

[BillGrissom]

nashvegas99,
Perhaps go the other way and post a photo of yours and we might see something wrong. Sounds like your float-needle is not closing off the flow, thus flooding the engine w/ gas. Likely either your float no longer floats or there is debris under the needle seat. Very common problem.

 

[nm9stheham]

also, what kind of carb and series is that one?

Carter BBs or BBD; it was also used in this time. I had similar carb fuel leakage into the engine before I rebuilt my 1920. Closing the throttle when the engine is off won't change the leakage.

Is this more like you have? The throttle linkage is different as this is on a '62 Dart.

 

[nashvegas99]

I have a 1920 carb but i dont have a spring on the choke/butterfly. I have the same accelerator rod connection as the carter set up. What caused you continued leak? If i get this thing running again, should i pur the timing light on it before i start adjusting on the carb?

 

[nashvegas99]

I have a 1920 carb but i dont have a spring on the choke/butterfly. I have the same accelerator rod connection as the carter set up. What caused you continued leak? If i get this thing running again, should i pur the timing light on it before i start adjusting on the carb? And if so, where i should i time it at?

 

[nashvegas99]

I havent tried to upload pics yet. I will give it a shot later.

 

[nm9stheham]

That spring in my pix is the throttle return spring, so you can ignore that; like I said, this is on a '62 dart (B body) and the linkage is different.

I never found out for sure but I suspect that the needle valve rubber was worn or cracked on my carb (it was 52 years old!), and letting in a little gas all the time, even when the float was trying to close it. The float was not gas-soaked (I weighed it to be sure), but I replaced it anyway.

It would not hurt to time it to around 2-3 degrees BTDC at idle.

A rebuild with a new float would be in order for your carb. Mike's Carburators sells the 12.7 oz floats.

Do you have the list number off of your carb? It will be 4 digits (and maybe a letter); it may be preceeded by an 'R'. It is probably located on the flat area beside the fast idle screw and cam in my carb's pix (the center, sidways pix....).

 

[nashvegas99]

I "rebuilt" it 2 weeks ago and put in a new needle seat/valve and a new diaphragm. I was reading yesterday that if the diaphragm was not torqued down properly on the 6 screws that it would not work correctly. Well, I can't find that torque info anywhere. One of my screws is stripped and I had to use a very small lock washer. a couple of other things I read about had to do with the gurgling and another issue I was dealing with and it sounded like my fix was similar. Part of what I read said to use the thicker insulator to help prevent the gas from gurgling and also it raised the carb enough to allow the linkage connector to not hit intake mani and close all the way. not sure if that is all bogus but what do you think? I'll post my plan here in a minute and give me your input. THANK YOU so much for all of your time and patience.

 

[nm9stheham]

Fuel percolation due to heat could be an issue, but if it does this without the engine running very long, like it seems in your case from your symptom description, then there was not enough heat to make this happen. However it IS a legit issue in hot conditions and on some engines; the earlier cars did not run as hot so I would not expect it as readily for your year car.

As for the torque, it needs to be very snug but not super tight. I can't give you a torque number. I looked up the max torque on a number 8 coarse thread screw and it was about 11 inch pounds but with the AL housing, I would go less. How did the stripped screw work with just adding the lockwasher? If the threads are stripped on the screws itself, go to the hardware store and get a new one....simple.

Can you explain this: "there was still a drip of gas coming out of the center blades in a continous steady slow drip." What do you mean by 'center blades'? Can you describe better where you saw the gas dripping out? If need be, crank the engine over for a while and then look down the carb throat with a mirror while holding the choke palte open and let us know where you see the gas coming out.

Did you replace the economizer valve, which is the plunger and diaphragm under the triangular cap held down by the 3 screws on the top of the carb. (See the forward left of the carb in my center pix.) If not, then the carb kit is just so-so. This could cause the carb to run continuously rich under all conditions except WOT.

The problem is still most likely the needle and seat, or the float being gas-logged. Get the list number off the side.

BTW, have you done any diagnosis on the car to see if you have good spark? My engine would always fire, even with the gas leaking into the manifold, so some tests of the spark system are in order, especially with the age and sounding like it needs work. Take off the spark wire from the center of the distributor cap and lay it with about a 1/4" gap to the engine metal; crank the car and see if the sparks will jump this gap with a mostly blue spark. If not, then the ignition system needs work first.

Has the car sat for a long time before you tried to get it running?

 

[nashvegas99]

oh yeah, I've done 2 weeks of spark testing. Finally got the timing near and it fired up the other night and ran very rough for a fed minutes. The "blades" im talking about is the main discharge nozzle inside the chamber that has to other small tubes intersecting it. I replaced the economizer valve also. I bought a holley 1920 rebuild kit from advance auto and had to have it shipped to my house. It had 3 diaphragms in it that all looked identical to me. The lock screw took hold and snugged up. The float is good and I did attempt to adjust it to 11/16 per the L-shaped small plastic gauge it came with. Here is my plan (with a few questions thrown in)...

I'm going to run 5/16 fuel line from pump to 1 gallon can w/ clean gas to get her fired up (I hope)
I'll change the inline filter
Remove the carb
remove fuel bowl
readjust float to 11/16 using drill bit as gauge
remove and recheck the diaphragm and replace the screws (#8 fine thread)
put it back together
replace w/ thick insulator
put carb back on
and attempt to refire

Now, the butterfly and choke I have a few questions about and I have the 1920 Holley rebuild manual and online resources and I'm a little confused. If I cant get it running to readjust the choke, then how should I do that part?

When it is in normal starting operation like nothing had ever happened, should the butterfly be open or closed?

 

[nashvegas99]

btw, it was running before I screwed up and removed the dist to change points and condenser and to check out the gears etc to make sure they were not messed up. Yes, I know...I'm 46 and still got the "dam*&^ boy, what did you do that for" from my father in FLorida (who has built race cars and etc all his life). But I can't explain to him over the phone exactly what it is doing b/c he can't get over the fact I screwed up the timing...which at least is close enough to get her fired up a couple times. Went through a battery cranking and cranking and finally got it running and my stupid self had the linakge upside down and she fired up at FULL rpm...had to yank wire to cut her off. Then after a few more attempts and just turning over and over (like she was flooded out) she fired up and ran very rough. so I'm to the get her running and get it timed phase...I HOPE

 

[nm9stheham]

OK on the 'blades'; it is an interesting little christmas tree of small discharge tubes.

Here is a better way to be sure the float level is right, and it the factory 'wet level':
- Remove the economizer valve with the car warmed up but off and ready to start
- Start car and watch the fuel level in the bowl; be careful in this case, with suspect float/needle valve, etc., and be ready to shut it off ASAP as it could overflow if the needle valve is not closing
- If not flooding, then use a small metal scale to measure from the surface of the fuel in the bowl to the flat surface on top of the carb to which the economizer valve screws down; this difference shoud be 11/16" running.

Don't bother with the choke right now 'til you get the ignition sorted. You can always pump the throttle a few times, and if it starts, then keep pumping the accel a bit to keep it runing as it warms up; it is summer so this should work OK. At this point, I would keep the choke opened (disconnect the choke well rod; the choke well is the lump on the intake) and start the car this way; the choke will be out of the picture as a flooding source for now.

The choke should close when the engine is cold, even at this time of year with one push to the floor of the throttle when cold. When you get things sorted out, then you can take off the choke well and look and there will be a small nut to a circular palte with a series of markings with L and R (Lean and Rich) at opposite ends of the markings; you can loosen the nut and adjust this towards L for summer operation and the choke will not hold on so long, and then reverse in late fall to make the choke stay on longer.

Also, consider pulling the valve cover off and seeing if any of the valves are sticking open if the gas has been old. You can best check the timing with the car not running while the cover is off.

Edit to add: BTW, did you check the new diaphragm to make sure the new one had the exact same holes in it as the old one? There are at least 2 types; that is another concern and the reason to ask about the list number......