Porting 302's

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the ONLY guy that flows heads around here is backwoods ford lover that uses a bench that measures 10"Hg only. suffice to say its just a tool. so what do #'s mean? NOTHING. just like horsepower #'s. i spent alot of time doing what i can on 302 heads. i'm not gonna be showing what i did/didn't do. that be like askin a F.A.S.T. racer to tell every little detail about the cam there usin.. ain't gonna happen. he wants them to support 400hp. send me the heads, i'll port em and he can post pics all day long. now moper i don't know what mag. article you mean. i havn't seen any #'s on the 302 other then what that dip Ryan has posted. ain't nothing ballsy about #'s i throw out. simple math. engine hp/2 = cfm. ie: engine makes engine 520hp (BASED ON 1/4 MPH and car weight). expect around 260cfm port flow. 70% of that for the exhaust flow and your styling. no magic, no voodoo. i'm at a point in my life where i don't need two things. ones a flow bench, the other is a TACH. real diggers will know the meaning of the last one. some of you guys remind me of sheep. always letting some big dog guide you's. lol. one sec your puttin down 318's cause of a small bore. the next your think the 390 is the second coming of christ. lmao. i have no doubt you no your stuff moper. but until you go all out port on a 302.. well your just guessing what you read off the net. oops just reread what you wrote. basically calling me a liar. well thats just peachy. + frankly.. dosn't bother me in the least.

ROUND TWO

ah wild&challenged guy... i'll copy and paste something alright. you have all the preachin and braggin internet power about your beloved magnum heads. you self admittedly said you know squat about 302's.. yet your comments still fly off your gums like a hooker getting a full load. look. its not rocket science to port any smallblock heads. people been doing it for years. x/j/f/z/^7/ heads its all the same. sonic test ANY 318 port. then compare it to a 360 port. only then will you see the light. you get on my back about anything i post thats 302 related. so heres the deal.. put up or shut up. you got the kahunas to go heads up NA? haha. you wann see flow #'s? i'll send em to yah and you can get it flowed. otherwise i can't be bothered to accomodate you. i've shut down many wide eyed guys like yourself. over many years. 20 years workin on those heads. i think i know a thing or two. not to mention the fact that MY mods on MY heads ARE NOT street friendly. but hey if you know what works on a 302 head then by all means explain to the OP what to do. and believe me. its no skin off my *** if i dont post here anymore. NOT like you MR. Wild&Crazy Superstar.. what are you up to now?? 11 posts a day average in a year. heres a porting tip for you.. less time here.. more time gettin laid.. then you won't hafta worry so much about some god forsaken 302 heads LOL.
 
Anyway back to the original reason of this post!

my engine was also featured in a magazine article directly comparing it to your engine.
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Where can i get the article? Did you do the mods in stages or all at once?

Hysteric

P.s do you read you private messages?
 
but until you go all out port on a 302.. well your just guessing what you read off the net. oops just reread what you wrote. basically calling me a liar. well thats just peachy. + frankly.. dosn't bother me in the least.

I didn't call you a liar. I said I'M a doubter in case you're not sure what "cynical" means. I learned my stuff long before the web was around and from many people. I agree the internet is full of keyboard jockeys but I've gotten pretty good at identifying them quickly and my postings over the years I believe point in the direction that I'm not much of one...lol. Debate is good for all concerned. I'm trying to debate your assertions. Nothing more than that. I read you have a car that runs well. I read you have done what are pretty standard mods for a race ported iron head (yes, i have moved pushrods and epoxied before) and you still get results that dont make sense to me. So I look for more info.
The 3600lbs Challenger you mention running 110+. Using a basic calculator that's about 450hp. Easy to get from a 318 if it's done right but hardly the product of heads alone. And I don't believe there's any way a N/A 450hp 318 would pass CA emissions. I had to pass CT emissions for years with my own cars and was paid to get others through. In the late 80s/early 90s was an ASE certified master tech so i'm not new to carbureted emissions engines. Regardless of that fact... that's going to be about 1.42hp/cubic inch. Your own basic formula for NA horsepower is 2hp/cfm. That comes out to 226 intake side cfm needed. How fast and what wieght is your car again? I'm not sure why with all the work you've done you're only at 260. Doing that on any J type head will enable you to get another 30cfm. Also I''m not sure how you can keep the volume down with relocating the pushrod hole and running the larger valve. So yes, I doubt your numbers as stated. As others are asking... I ask to see it. The heads are a 25 yr old design. Few people in any racing series run them unless rules mandate them and if you can get them that too good it's only worth it to you to get them seen. The few circle track guys I know that need to run iron heads now run the EQ Magnums and they make 450hp on a 2bbl carb with them. Lot's of guys say "What I do is so revolutionary that I need to keep it secret." IMO, that's a cop out and it's been said on this site before. So again... I ask for more info. The pics or preferably the magazine article. If that article deal is true... why not show us.. you told the magazine something.
Now, because you question what I've done in your comments about internet posters... Here's a couple bits of my pre-keyboard experience. The 302s I've done should flow around 210 and I never cc'd them but I'd put them around 160. I say "should" because the one set I did flow made 210 at .500 lift on the intake and exh was 135 at .500. I should add when i heard those numbers I was disappointed. When I use 302s I do what most call "stage 2" work. In this set's case it meant 1.88 intakes (had them back-cut)/1.60 exh stock tulip valves, gasket matching to 360 port entry, enlarging the push rod pinch about .100" and raising the roof slightly, blending the bowl and narrowing the guide boss slightly. The early version I enlarged the chamber to the 318 bore size. modern versions use a five angle valve job that does the chamber better and most of the bowl work as part of the valve job. That one that was flowed was the first ever set I did, about 17 years ago, and that was a conversion from 10" testing because they didnt have much for 28" benches around me that I knew about back then. I'm sure I could get another 15cfm with more guide removal and some short turn work plus I use stainless nail head valves now. The engine that got these was a mild 318 that made about 325hp with a Comp Magnum 270H cam using some online calculators now. Went 102 (1/4 mile) in a 3300lbs with driver(estimated weight) Dart. Those heads cost me at the time around $500 I think, with my own port work. It would take about $800 to duplicate now again, with nothing for port work but the modern methods and parts would get more flow. Now for comparison... The year before, I took a set of J heads off a 340 I had, same valve size, stock eveything else, put new seals and springs on them, lapped the valves, and stuck them on a friend's bone stock original 318 in a '73 E body with a small MP purple shaft. It went 96mph and that car had to be at least 3600lbs w/driver. Comes to 300hp using the same calculators and cost about $200 in cleaning and new springs and that was with the stock 8:1 lower end. It wasn't a barnstormer, but no dog either. I dont have much for pics from any work I did prior to 2 years ago due to the divorce so this is off memory.
These are two examples of why I state the 302s have their place, but going "full race" on them, or even going mildly at them in terms of porting simply doesnt make sense in performance or money. Only by personal feeling. I'm questioning result. Not personal choice.
 
mine was about the same. dropped about a grand in parts. nevermind my hours into porting them. in the end, they did make the horsepower. but considering how fragile these heads are, i'm surprised they lasted as long as they did. i shoulda went with RPM's to begin with. woulda save alot of time. but as i stated, RyanJ said thats a fools dream with those heads. wanted to prove him wrong which I did. which brings me to the point with the OP. yah i could tell him/show him exactly what i've done. but there's no point in it. its NOT street mods by a long shot on my heads. paper thing ports, epoxy, etc dosn't make for reliability. see nobody ever asked me exactly what was done. they just jump all over me. if they woulda asked in the first place.. coulda avoided this whole non-contraversy. hope we're clear on this now. i still like yah lol.

Hysteric,
I didn't get any Pm's from you. try again.
 
A-bomb, I think your missing the point. The OP was looking for some advice on his 302s. I dont know the first thing about them. But instead of helping the guy out, you have turned this into a "hey look at me" fight and hijacking this guys thread. I dont think the OP wants to hear about it, and correct me if I am wrong, he just wants to make his car run the best it possibly can. I am a J head guy and my Junk runs over 120 in a 3500 a body, good for me but doesnt help the OP.

Back to our regularly scheduled program. Hysteric, I found that porting heads can be easy and fun. Especially when you see the MPH numbers your new motor generates. I use a Makita porting tool that I plug into a variable speed source from Grainger and I have an assortment of bits to grind with. I then sand paper roll the ports to finish them off. My first set of J heads flowed 260 cfm and I had no prior experience. I encourage you to go out and start whittling away on your heads, I think you will be pleasantly surprised. I recommend the J heads, but If you have the 302s already then use them in good health. I dont have any pics of my tool set up but if you need some pics I will take some today and post them. A good friend of mine and master head porter showed me the tool set up and gave me the same advice I am giving you.

Remember this isnt personal, I think too many people are quick to take offense. We are all here for the same reason. The love of the A body. Take care and good luck.
 
A-BOMB360 said:
mine was about the same. dropped about a grand in parts. nevermind my hours into porting them. in the end, they did make the horsepower. but considering how fragile these heads are, i'm surprised they lasted as long as they did. i shoulda went with RPM's to begin with. woulda save alot of time. but as i stated, RyanJ said thats a fools dream with those heads. wanted to prove him wrong which I did. which brings me to the point with the OP. yah i could tell him/show him exactly what i've done. but there's no point in it. its NOT street mods by a long shot on my heads. paper thing ports, epoxy, etc dosn't make for reliability. see nobody ever asked me exactly what was done. they just jump all over me. if they woulda asked in the first place.. coulda avoided this whole non-contraversy. hope we're clear on this now. i still like yah lol.

Hysteric,
I didn't get any Pm's from you. try again.
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Again more 'nothing':knob:
this time basically saying what you've claimed to have done was pointless and a waste in comparison to buying rpm heads..
Just shut up already.
 
pointless for him yup. like i said mr. expert.. you say you got the skills to pay the bills.. give the OP your advice on how to port a 302. i all i see from you is alot of blah, blah, blah, about this or that. and you quote alot of technogargon crap from alot of sources. i already posted my 10sec slip. wheres yours? if your mouth was doin the quarter mile it'd be faster then a top fueler.


turbodart68 said:
.... I am a J head guy and my Junk runs over 120 in a 3500 a body, good for me but doesnt help the OP....
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so wild, just like my 302's are good for me and dosn't help what the OP wants. i hope you READ that part.. a concept which you cannot seem to grasp. I also said the OP already had a good flowing set of heads. and all he really needs to do is add some more volume to the port. 2.02's to start. as for YOU, buy my heads, flow them post pics ALL over the internet. tell EM' its all your doing to for all i care LMAO! at least I can admit that my 302's where a waste of time on my part for what i needed them to do.
:bootysha: :thebirdm:
 
I still want pictures................

I mean, I would post pictures of my 302 heads if someone asked..........

Whats the problem????
 
dodgetkboy78 said:
I still want pictures................

I mean, I would post pictures of my 302 heads if someone asked..........

Whats the problem????
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The problem is is ABomb is a tool, with nothing to back up his claims as far as im concerned. What was the deal with that 70something Camaro he had posted it looked like it was takin out of a magazine from the 80s?. Abomb lets see some other pics other than your crungey 302 head and rusty $300 Duster with your $300 dollar Ford Bronco II. Loser!!!!!!!:bootysha:
 
I agree, all his posts are confrontational. I have yet to see anything which makes him a "keyboard jockey". I highly doubt he has done anything and just is here to stroke his ego and start some crap for some poor guy looking to make his Mopar run quicker. Pretty much every thread he posts on turns into one of these bullsh*t threads and the sad part is he thinks he is cool and the poor guy who needs some info get derailed.
 
I dont think there's too many people on this site that have nothing to offer. But we dont all present it the same way. No biggie. Hopefully the OP gets some ideas through the fog...lol.
 
why is it every thread about 302 heads turns in to a pissing match. Reminds me of a MoparMal thread.
 
AdamR said:
why is it every thread about 302 heads turns in to a pissing match. Reminds me of a MoparMal thread.
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Because 302 heads perform....... But not as much as some say theirs do. I mean, if you hog a 302 head to perform like a 360 head, you just went backwards, IMO. Coming from a guy, who loves 302 heads, runs 302 heads, and has ported 302 heads, they are great, for a MILD STREET ENGINE, but, 11 seconds?

BOWLSHIT!!!

Like I said before, putting 302 heads on a 340 or 360, going into anything but a boat, truck, MPG, or offroad motor, is, well, almost foolish. (IMO again)

I'd like to add, that on any set of 302 heads, where the epoxy on the floor is does not need to be there, you can open the port of a 302 up pretty easy in that area to a 360 size.

And if you went like ten, or eight, or two seconds in the 1/4 like you claimed, on 302 heads, then why is the port next to it not ported at all?

Questions questions.

MyFootInYourAss.jpg



Wow, I bet you spent all day making that one! So cool, I wannabe like you! Now, pics of the heads............ Were waiting.
 
11 seconds?
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lol ive seen a 318 stock bottom end with mildly ported 318 heads with 1.84 valve, 9-1 comp, rpm manifold, 750 carb and using a 256 @ .50 cam 500 lift at a weight of 2400lbs run 11.01. And theres more in it but he wont develope it further as its more money when he hits the 10.99 bracket. Besides his mum races it!!!!!

http://img64.imageshack.us/g/img6146.jpg/
 
I guess if Mildly ported 318 heads will run in the tens, there is no reason to even have 360 heads...... Hell, 99% of the cars here cant run in the tens, even stroked!
 
LOL.... guys run 11's with inline 6's down here! with 265 ci!

Hysteric
 
There are some of us that got a short block for a great deal and running closed chambered heads like the 302s to produce compression. 10.7 to be exact. The pistons are a little bit to far down in the hole. Running a open chamber head loses compression. So porting out 302s makes since to me.
 
mullinax95 said:
There are some of us that got a short block for a great deal and running closed chambered heads like the 302s to produce compression. 10.7 to be exact. The pistons are a little bit to far down in the hole. Running a open chamber head loses compression. So porting out 302s makes since to me.
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Good point!
 
Hysteric said:
lol ive seen a 318 stock bottom end with mildly ported 318 heads with 1.84 valve, 9-1 comp, rpm manifold, 750 carb and using a 256 @ .50 cam 500 lift at a weight of 2400lbs run 11.01. And theres more in it but he wont develope it further as its more money when he hits the 10.99 bracket. Besides his mum races it!!!!!

http://img64.imageshack.us/g/img6146.jpg/
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Not tough to get something that light to move. Toss another 1000lbs in it and you have a 12.00 car.

In general, just about anything can be set up to run with enough cash.
 
crackedback said:
Not tough to get something that light to move. Toss another 1000lbs in it and you have a 12.00 car.

In general, just about anything can be set up to run with enough cash.
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Crackedback hit it on the head.CASH...Unless you know how to do everything yourself and have all the tools.Even then the parts cost lots...

That is why you dont see a lot of 10 second cars.If everyone had the knowhow and lots of cash they would be everywhere.

No doubt you need a good set of heads to run in the 10's,along with all the supporting speed equipment.

You could make any car/motor runs 10's but generally a n/a small cid engine running 10's is unliveable on the street.

IMHO,if you want around 400 h.p from a 318 drop magnums on it.They wont need any porting and the cam will be tolerable on the street,but have a really lumpy idle. You will likey end up with more money tied up in the 302's than the magnums to get the same results.
 
needsaresto said:
That is why you dont see a lot of 10 second cars.If everyone had the knowhow and lots of cash they would be everywhere.
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I see TONS...just not many on this forum (atleast not many that i know of)
 
Toss another 1000lbs in it and you have a 12.00 car.
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EXACTLY!!!!!!!!! LOL now add a 360 bottom end AND.............

In general, just about anything can be set up to run with enough cash.
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True.....BUT not this car i just showed you guys! As i said its a dead stock 318 short down to the bolts with just a solid cam thats it no more

Hysteric
 
mullinax95 said:
There are some of us that got a short block for a great deal and running closed chambered heads like the 302s to produce compression. 10.7 to be exact. The pistons are a little bit to far down in the hole. Running a open chamber head loses compression. So porting out 302s makes since to me.
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they end up the same as regular open chambered 318 heads cc wise when you measure'em.

the early 273/318 heads were closed [57 cc advertised] while open chamber version are [60cc 68-74 advertised] & 62-63cc while 302 heads were advertised at 62cc. but all were larger most of the time...
fwiw.

but hey I guess you can't open the old 318 heads up that much...
 
mshred said:
I see TONS...just not many on this forum (atleast not many that i know of)
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I do see some and 'hear' about a lot of 10 sec cars around here.

It takes reengineering the rear suspension and always automatic tranny with $900-$1200 torque convertor lots of tire, rear disc brakes, Aluminum heads sometimes nitrous & aluminum blocks etc... meanwhile it looks stock'ish/streetable till you get close to it.
 
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