Positive coil wire

[Sam_318]

Hello gentlemen! I am needing some help on a few wiring questions I have. lve downloaded a manual for my car (1969 valiant). and can't seem to find a accurate wiring diagram under the valiant section. I have a brand new m&h engine and headlight harness and am sorting out wiring that I'm not gonna be using. I bought an ebay electronic voltage regulator I believe is the right name for it? Anyways not using the mechanical regulator that would be original to the car. I am needing a key on ignition wire for the voltage regulator and my msd box, my question is can I use the blue positive coil wire that goes to ballast resistor to positive side of coil for those two wires? My other question is in this harness I have a black wire with a ring terminal, that runs along with the alternator field wire and my temperature guage wire. Is that the power wire to the back of the alternator? I only ask because I had a d100 in the past and rewired the whole truck, and the hot wire coming from the back of the alternator went to the starter. Just seems kinda weird that it goes to the bulkhead I know they are two different vehicles but I just wanna verify.


Thank in advance
Sam.

 

[Mattax]

Not sure what you bought or what you are doing.
The wiring diagrams are the last pages of the electrical chapter in the service manual.
Pretty much everything is essential except maybe hood mounted turn signal or something like that.
There was a change in '69 to the neutral safety and reverse lamp harness (transmission).

Basic power schematic for '69

Power is supplied to the welded junction (solid black circle) from either the battery or the alternator.
At the junction there are 3 feeds. One to the key switch, One to the always hot fuses, one to the headlight switch.

The regulator you bought is for an isolated field alternator. Those came standard begining in 1970. If you ordered your harness modified for that, then the regulator is correct. If you ordered a factory replica harness, then a regulator for a grounded field alternator is needed.


For MSD see the original Autotronics info I've posted here
for use with points distributor.

'68 fastback 440 wiring harness to suit

Hi, i performed a search here prior to posting but cannot find similar question. Being over 50 year old car i am looking at replacing all harness (i believe 5 piece off memory) to be safe and avoid any future breakdowns. '68 fastback 318 car to 440. Car will be street / strip. What harness are...

www.forabodiesonly.com

For magnetic pickup distributor, don't use the white wire. Connect the purple and green pair to the distributor pickup wires.

 

[Sam_318]

Not sure what you bought or what you are doing.
The wiring diagrams are the last pages of the electrical chapter in the service manual.
Pretty much everything is essential except maybe hood mounted turn signal or something like that.
There was a change in '69 to the neutral safety and reverse lamp harness (transmission).

Basic power schematic for '69
View attachment 1716166337

Power is supplied to the welded junction (solid black circle) from either the battery or the alternator.
At the junction there are 3 feeds. One to the key switch, One to the always hot fuses, one to the headlight switch.

The regulator you bought is for an isolated field alternator. Those came standard begining in 1970. If you ordered your harness modified for that, then the regulator is correct. If you ordered a factory replica harness, then a regulator for a grounded field alternator is needed.


For MSD see the original Autotronics info I've posted here
for use with points distributor.

http://[URL]https://www.forabodieso...wiring-harness-to-suit.512804/post-1973824472

[/URL]

For magnetic pickup distributor, don't use the white wire. Connect the purple and green pair to the distributor pickup wires.

All I'm trying to do is verify the blue wire going to the positive side of the coil, is safe to run my msd and voltage regulator wire too being that they need a key on ignition wire. Which according to the schematic you provided seems to be correct thanks!

 

[Mattax]

J2B going to the coil is fine for turning the MSD on/off. Disconnect it from the coil of course.
But power to it goes through the ballast resistor when the key is in run.
So it is not OK for supplying the voltage regulator.
The voltage regulator needs to be connected to the ignition run circuit before it goes through the ballast resistor. J2 and J2A.

 

[Sam_318]

J2B going to the coil is fine for turning the MSD on/off. Disconnect it from the coil of course.
But power to it goes through the ballast resistor when the key is in run.
So it is not OK for supplying the voltage regulator.
The voltage regulator needs to be connected to the ignition run circuit on the other side of the ballast resistor. J2 and J2A.

I was going to eliminate the wires I'm not using the blue positive coil wire was gonna be one of them, I'm not running a ballast resistor being that I have a msd box. If I can use that wire as a key on ignition for the msd and voltage regulator then I'll use it. If not what wire would you suggest to use? I've had this msd box wired up to a different vehicle I understand how it goes, just not familiar with the a body wiring and what would be a good key on ignition source to use.

 

[RustyRatRod]

Just use the ignition side of the ballast. It's keyed 12v.

 

[67Dart273]

The VR you pictured is for 70 and later. For that you will need a 70/ later alternator which has two field connections. As stated, the key switched 12V is a blue wire coming out of the bulkhead, and goes to the ballast. That wire is the ONLY source of keyed 12V which is ONLY hot repeat ONLY HOT in ONLY the run position of the key. For starting, there are TWO wires involved that are hot ONLY in the "start" position of the key. One is the yellow start wire, which ONLY feeds the start relay to actuate the starter. The other, normally brown, IGN2 at the key, is the coil resistor bypass circuit for starting. THAT wire MUST go to the coil + side of the ballast resistor.

Be aware that there are several solid state ignition diagrams which are WRONG as they try and get the start wire to act as the bypass wire. THIS IS IMPORTANT to avoid, as the two circuits are ISOLATED so that the coil power in the "run" position DOES NOT BACKFEED to the starter relay!!!

THE BALLAST AND COIL WIRING in the 69 manual is exactly the same whether using breaker points or Mopar breakerless

 

[67Dart273]

THIS DIAGRAM IS WRONG as it is talking about the "start" wire

The diagram below IS ALSO WRONG as drawn. The CHANGE you must make is that the wire at top right labeled "start position on ignition switch" that INSTEAD must connect to the brown IGN2 terminal. A STOCK breaker points harness does just this and needs no change, physically.

The wire at bottom right labeled "run" goes to the blue coming out of the bulkhead, "ignition run" IGN1 at the key THIS WIRE also feeds the VR IGN terminal and if you are using the 70/ later alternator/ VR, it branches off to feed ONE of the two field terminals

 

[67Dart273]

Basic wiring for the 70/ later VR. The wire at top marked ign + comes from the same blue as the IGN run. IF YOU HAVE a made harness, the new or old VR power connection should already exist. The + feeds one of the two field terminals (does not matter) as will as the center terminal of the VR. The other VR terminal feeds the remaining field. VR MUST BE GROUNDED.

 

[67Dart273]

ALSO CONSIDER not finishing up the wiring too well, as you MAY WANT TO add a relay to control the blue power. This is because voltage drop in the harness from the battery, through the bulkhead connector, the ignition switch, and back out the bulkhead OFTEN CAUSES OVER CHARGING. in these old girls. This can be easily bypassed by using a bosch style relay. Cut the blue "ign run" soon after it comes into the engine bay and before it branches off. Use the firewall end to trigger the relay coil, feed the relay power off the starter relay "big stud," and connect the engine bay end of the blue wire you cut to the switched contact of the relay.

IF YOU ARE not really comfortable with wiring, I'd get the car running first, after you have it running and the battery charged, check the charging voltage, and if high, then go ahead and add a relay

 

[Cuda Al]

That voltage regulator requires a different alternator and adding one wire from the alternator to the voltage regulator. (in a nut shell)
There are electronic replacements for the earlier voltage regulators that do not require changes to the wiring.


Alan

 

[Sam_318]

Thanks for the replies fellas, I should have stated in the first post that the engine is 70+ on this car. So I have the correct alternator had these style vr sitting around and not an original style. so figured I'd just use what I have the wiring looks pretty straight forward. I just wanted to see what you guys that are running msd what wire did tap in for the key on ignition, and since the vr needs one as well was gonna try and tap it into whatever I use for the msd as well.

 

[Sam_318]

Alright so I've finally got the car to the point of starting. After relocating the battery to trunk wiring the starter relay msd and voltage regulator. First question there's a box relay looking deal right next to fuse box. Anyone have any idea what that is? I had a wire coming from that box grounding on my floor board, causing sparks when trying to hook up positive side of battery. Second question so I'm assuming I installed my distributor 180 out, first time trying to start it was smoking out the carb a popping out the headers. Today I popped the distributor out turned the rotor facing opposite direction and dropped it back in. Well now it starts but only if key is held down once I let go of the key it turns off. Anyone have any clue what might cause that? The key and key cylinder are brand new the outside housing that the key cylinder goes in is not, could that possibly be the reason? Only other thing I could think of is the msd wiring has one positive one negative wire and a key on ignition wire, which I hooked up to the grey wire that would've originally went to the positive side of coil.

 

[67Dart273]

Starting / running. You likely screwed up the original wiring, and it is important to understand how that worked. Is the original wiring intact, or has it been chopped up? Did you disconnect the ballast resistor?

Here's what..............

There are the following key--controlled circuits into the engine bay

1. IGN1 RUN. This is hot ONLY ONLY with the key in the RUN position, and powers the key side of the coil ballast, branches off to feed the voltage regulator. IT IS NOT fused, and usually, dark blue

2..START--comes from the IGN switch, is hot ONLY in the start position, usually yellow, and fires the start relay to crank the engine

3....Bypass or IGN2 circuit, brown. This is ALSO hot ONLY in start but is a separate isolated witch contact to prevent backfeed. It goes to the coil + side of the ballast and it's purpose is, when in start, to feed hot full battery voltage to the coil for starting. Once again, the RUN line goes DEAD in cranking


When wiring up MSD or other systems with no ballast, it is important to get ALL wires to the old ballast spliced together or connect the two ballast wiring terminals with a jumper so that they remain intact. Y


Your engine is likely starting on the bypass IGN2 circuit, but not getting RUN IGN1 power when the key returns to RUN. So check there where the ballast "was."

The MSD is designed to have the big black to a good ground such as the block, and the big red to full power such as the big stud on the start relay. The small red triggers the system to power on, and you started out "right" with that.

 

[67Dart273]

Relay is horn relay. DO YOU HAVE a service manual? You need to go over to MyMopar.com and download one. May have to settle for Dodge vs Plymouth Page 8-103

By the way the black on the diagram labled "GROUND" is not quite correct. That goes to the horn button, and only grounds when you punch the horn button

 

[Sam_318]

Starting / running. You likely screwed up the original wiring, and it is important to understand how that worked. Is the original wiring intact, or has it been chopped up? Did you disconnect the ballast resistor?

Here's what..............

There are the following key--controlled circuits into the engine bay

1. IGN1 RUN. This is hot ONLY ONLY with the key in the RUN position, and powers the key side of the coil ballast, branches off to feed the voltage regulator. IT IS NOT fused, and usually, dark blue

2..START--comes from the IGN switch, is hot ONLY in the start position, usually yellow, and fires the start relay to crank the engine

3....Bypass or IGN2 circuit, brown. This is ALSO hot ONLY in start but is a separate isolated witch contact to prevent backfeed. It goes to the coil + side of the ballast and it's purpose is, when in start, to feed hot full battery voltage to the coil for starting. Once again, the RUN line goes DEAD in cranking


When wiring up MSD or other systems with no ballast, it is important to get ALL wires to the old ballast spliced together or connect the two ballast wiring terminals with a jumper so that they remain intact. Y


Your engine is likely starting on the bypass IGN2 circuit, but not getting RUN IGN1 power when the key returns to RUN. So check there where the ballast "was."

The MSD is designed to have the big black to a good ground such as the block, and the big red to full power such as the big stud on the start relay. The small red triggers the system to power on, and you started out "right" with that.

When I got the car I took out the cluster to inspect the wiring. Everything looked original nothing looked hacked up, only wiring I messed with was headlight and engine wiring. Msd black is going to back of the block red is going to stud on relay ignition feed is going to brown ignition wire. Has no ballast resistor I found a diagram on another post for ignition run and start system and that's what I went based off of.