"POWER NATION" slant six build

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rapidtransitric

rapidtransitric

LX/LC platform a body swap pioneer
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sittin down this morning to take in "power nation's" programing. to my surprise. Engine Power is featuring a slant six build. i say about time. i guess enjoy it while we can
 
Great. Nice to see Courtney thinking of us.
I pulled below off their website.
On my cable (Comcast), I must search for "PowerNation: Engine Power".

Sunday 1/11 9:30 AM ET/PT
Sunday 1/18 9:30 AM ET/PT
Sweet Slant Six
Spike

Tuesday 1/13 4:00 PM ET
Tuesday 1/20 4:30 PM ET
Slant Six Duster
NBC Sports Network

Saturday 1/17 8:30 AM ET
Saturday 1/24 8:30 AM ET
Slant Six Duster
CBS Sports Network
 
I am recording it. Just curious as to what kind of power they got from their combo.
-Matt
 
Badvert65 said:
I am recording it. Just curious as to what kind of power they got from their combo.
-Matt
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they just started building it. so that is an unknown. but i think we all ought to email them and push for a serious power build. what i saw them doing was very basic. no intricate machining or blue printing. kinda like they had nothing better to do.
 
I am not sure why they wasted air time on the first engine if it turned out to be unusable. Anyway, interesting but I deleted the episode after I watched it. Does anyone recall what the compression ratio is on the rebuilt engine?
Odd that they went with a Comp Cams bumpstick. Isn't that the brand rumored to eat distributor gears?
-Matt
 
Badvert65 said:
I am not sure why they wasted air time on the first engine if it turned out to be unusable. Anyway, interesting but I deleted the episode after I watched it. Does anyone recall what the compression ratio is on the rebuilt engine?
Odd that they went with a Comp Cams bumpstick. Isn't that the brand rumored to eat distributor gears?
-Matt
Click to expand...

They probably had one with all the block work done already and needed to show tear down of something.
 
Badvert65 said:
I am not sure why they wasted air time on the first engine if it turned out to be unusable. Anyway, interesting but I deleted the episode after I watched it. Does anyone recall what the compression ratio is on the rebuilt engine?
Odd that they went with a Comp Cams bumpstick. Isn't that the brand rumored to eat distributor gears?
-Matt
Click to expand...


I said something in another thread about this.

The guy on the show hates Mopar, that being said, they did it just to appease the Mopar crowd. Like I said also, /6's can be built to be little screamers, they just threw some parts at it and buttoned it up.

They should have gone into detail and really built the 6, but that's never gonna happen on that show. Look at the attention they gave the old Ford straight six!

They have been getting tons of emails about doing more with Mopar engines, and when I talked to Courtney last summer (A MOPAR GIRL), I asked her to poke them with a stick and get some balance into the show. All I ever see is Chevy...Chevy....Chevy...Ford...Chevy etc. It gets old, I have almost got to the point of not watching it anymore.
 
Yeah its really not that good of a series any longer its basically just product placement
 
They have had some very good informative shows, but I agree, it's getting to be a sales promo.
 
I don't expect any great revelations from this. I am also surprised they are doing a Mopar engine, let alone a slant 6.
Anyone else notice that they mentioned ARP fasteners for everything, even the oil pan bolts but they reused the OEM head bolts? I don't really have a problem with reusing the head bolts, it's just that obviously ARP pitched in on this build.
Anyway, I don't usually watch these shows because of their overt product placement. It drives me nuts.
-Matt
 
Strange that they used a cast crank on the 2nd engine pass, claiming "good enough", plus those rods use thinner bearings, even though they said you can get these engines cheap in any junkyard. I did like the valve stem seals they used (special machining?) and they kind of gushed that the crank is "426 hemi-like", even using a custom rear hemi oil seal. I also wondered about the Comp Cams choice (many claim to be an oil-pump gear-eater), though the 0.440" in/ex valve lift sounds good. I don't recall them using bigger valves. The 500 cfm Edelbrock seems too much for their fairly mild build and will help their final expected conclusion "slants have no power".

They said the slant was used until the year 2000. I wonder if just industrial versions (generators & tractors), or were some foreign vehicles still using them?
 
claiming "good enough"
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It's "good enough", because the dude doesn't like Mopar, period. I think he cringes at doing anything Mopar related.

I had a lengthy conversation this morning with someone from RPM productions, or what ever it is, and told them of my disgust with his attitude toward Mopar, and the fact all they ever seem to want to talk about is Chevy and Ford.

I suggested they balance the show with all three domestic engine makers to appease ALL of the gear heads instead of certain groups.

We'll see.
 
I suspect that the second block they used was actually the one from the duster they showed from the future episode and the owner probably started some work on it. That is why they didn't show tear down of the block they actually used
 
Dorian said:
Why not bring in a guest builder or builders?
Click to expand...

Why build it at all, unless you want to prove once and for all, that you CANNOT make decent power out of a naturally-aspirated slant six... and, maybe that's what they want to do if the guy engineering this test hates Mopars as much as I am reading on here.

It has been proven over the years, time and again, that the only slant six cylinder head we have to work with, will defeat the best efforts of the best engine builders, without exception.

You just cannot put enough air through a cast iron OEM head to make much more than 275-300 horsepower out of a 225. The miniscule bore size has effectively dictated valves and ports that work very well on the 170 motor it was originally designed for, but will strangle a 225 to death, regardless of a nice porting job and big valves. Radical cams can only take you so far...

The best heads out there only can be made to flow about 220 cfm on the intake side, and they need to be more like 300 to effectively feed those 39 cubic-inch cylinders. Ain’t gonna happen... No way, no how ...

The only way to make a slant six run scary fast is through the magic of forced induction, or NOS. I don’t know anything at all about nitrous, so I will limit my comments to turbos and supercharging.

Two FABO guys, Ryan Peterson and Tom Wolfe, have successfully installed turbos on their 225 motors, with results that point to their achieving outputs over 500 horsepower. That’s 2.2 horsepower per cubic inch.!!!

Tom’s 3,400-pound ‘70 Dart runs 120+ in the quarter in 11 seconds flat, (into a 15mph headwind) whole Ryan’s 2,800-pound ‘66 Valiant, making about the same amount of power, has run 10.74 at 127 mph. That’s quicker and faster than a new Hellcat Challenger will run on stock tires, (!) and Ryan’s car did it on some narrow, 8” drag radials.

I am only quoting these times to verify that a slant six CAN be made to run, and run HARD, but it absolutely HAS to have some help in the breathing department to do it.

Neither of those two engines have any kind of exotic, sophisticated, equipment on them, both running one 4bbl Holley carb on a slant six 4bbl manifold, a run-of the mill ported head with larger valves like most people run, a short-duration, flat tappet cam, stock rocker arms and some 340-style valve springs, with a 5,500 rpm red line. MSD igniton with Mopar distributors take care the ignition because nothing esoteric is needed, as they never see, even, 6,000 rpm.

They both have forged pistons and rods, a stock, forged, steel crank and run about 28 (!) pounds of boost to do this. The amazing thing about slant sixes is, they are UNUSUALLY ROBUST in their design and infrastructure, being built more like a Diesel than a gas engine, with no thin-wall casting parameters, anywhere. They apparently, can withstand boost levels that would blow most other engines into a basket of scrap iron.

A slant six racer whose screen name on FABO is “Guzzi Mark” built a naturally aspirated slant six in an early (Gen. I) A body that ran some really impressive times, seeming to disprove my contention, but he’d put the car on a serious diet and reduced its weight to about 2,300 pounds... Most A body cars we race weigh more like 3,000 pounds, so it was kind of an apples/oranges thing. But, it did haul ***!!!


If these people writing the slant six buildup are serious about making power, they’d BETTER get a turbo on that motor, or it will be an exercise in futility... mark my words.

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QzUfV8iTpQ"]Turbo Slant Six 10.74 @ 127 mph 7-19-10 - YouTube[/ame]
and
[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAxRmoDgsdY"]Turbo charged Slant 6 11.02 @ 120.56 - YouTube[/ame]

Just MY 2-cents...:violent1:
 
Darter6 said:
You tell um Bill !!!!!!
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Thanks for the support.

That is only MY OPINION, but it is based on what I have been able to learn over the last 5 years of reading race reports and build-ups of naturally aspirated slant six motors. Ed Thomson did everything right on his build and was never able to get into the 13's with his '68 Dart because of that miserable head, fully ported and with bigger valves. That is a L-O-N-G way from Ryan's 10.74.

The handwriting is on the wall... as I see it.

If you want to have a fast slant six that can successfully challenge some V8 cars, you'd be wise to invest the time and money in some sort of forced induction, or a nitrous system; it's probably not going to happen, otherwise.

Guzzi Marks naturally-aspirated car went fast, and the alcohol-fueled early Valiant of the guys in Missouri goes even quicker, but both of those cars have been the beneficiary of weight-reduction programs that are unusual, and very effective. I don't think most folks can or will do that with their cars. They are both about 700 pounds lighter than most street-driven slant six A bodies. More power to them; I wish my '64 Valiant was that light (it is 2,670 pounds.)

Show me a naturally aspirated, gasoline fueled, slant six making anywhere near 500 horsepower, and I will apologize for my long-winded, opinionated, rants, but until then, I will remain convinced that forced induction is simply a necessary evil for our asthmatic, but unusually-sturdy, motors.

Thanks for listening!:D
 
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