I have been chasing some power steering issues and could use some advice. Over the past winter I rebuilt all of the steering and suspension components on my 72 Dart /6. I installed a new Borgeson steering box from Bergman Auto Craft. The steering now feels great, but I was getting a terrible hissing sound being transmitted up through the steering column at idle. After trying some possible fixes after discussions with Peter Bergman, I decided to upgrade my original Federal (round neck) PS pump with a Saginaw (oval neck) pump thinking the different pressure might help. However, the hissing sound continues, and now I am getting a terrible chatter/squeal coming from the new pump when I turn the wheels stopped at idle. At speed it feels and sounds great. I am thinking the chatter/squeal has to be a belt issue causing this correct? Or are there any other problems with the new pump that could cause the issue? If it is simply a slipping belt are there any tricks on getting the belt tighter and holding it there while I tighten the bracket bolts? Exactly how tight should it be? Thanks for any thoughts/suggestions.
Power Steering Pump Noise
- Thread starter zigman
- Start date
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1/2” deflection is the norm.
Belt chattering can be a hard belt or the drive pulley or driven pulley is worn and the belt is not sitting 100% in the vee.
Also, did you install the u joint they recommend? I’m wondering if the steering shaft output bushing is worn out.
I’ve got the set up on my 66 Barracuda and it has been perfect for 2 years now.
I’m using g the factory pump from 66 on a 273.
Syleng1
Belt chattering can be a hard belt or the drive pulley or driven pulley is worn and the belt is not sitting 100% in the vee.
Also, did you install the u joint they recommend? I’m wondering if the steering shaft output bushing is worn out.
I’ve got the set up on my 66 Barracuda and it has been perfect for 2 years now.
I’m using g the factory pump from 66 on a 273.
Syleng1
Thanks for the response. I forgot to mention the pulley and belt are brand new. I also used the U joint that came with the kit supplied from Bergman Auto. Peter is out of ideas on the hissing sound, but the bigger issue is the squealing/chattering now with the new pump. It only occurs when I turn the wheels with the car stopped or very slow speed.
The sound you are hearing in the steering wheel is a result of the u joint rather than a flex joint
My mom's 65 mustang had ps added and it has a typical hard u joint. When you turn the wheel you can hear and feel the pump hissing.
My mom's 65 mustang had ps added and it has a typical hard u joint. When you turn the wheel you can hear and feel the pump hissing.
Speaking of hissing from under the dash. Todd and I had a relatable problem. While stripping an old 70 RR in the garage we brought home from the mountains. Reaching to take the push rod off the brake pedal I went to move what I thought was the harness. It was a full size Copper head snake.
After getting him out we came back to work the next day and found what looked like little turds all over the shop. Until we saw one try to strike. There were tons of baby copper head snakes all over the shop. For months we were finding these snakes . So beware hissing could be Snakes. LOL. If you hear crunching sounds you may have a rodent problem.
After getting him out we came back to work the next day and found what looked like little turds all over the shop. Until we saw one try to strike. There were tons of baby copper head snakes all over the shop. For months we were finding these snakes . So beware hissing could be Snakes. LOL. If you hear crunching sounds you may have a rodent problem.
Having a "little bit" of pump noise when the wheel is cranked all the way to one side or another is not unusual. When the pump & gearbox have been properly purged of air, if it makes a lot of noise when turning the wheel it is almost always the belt slipping on the pulley because it is working against the resistance to turning those tires when the car is stationary. Just be sure the belt is tight (and is the correct one), the fluid is at the proper level. I use a long handle 1/2" breaker bar into the square in the PS pump bracket to crank the belt tight. Hold the bar with one hand while tightening the mounting bolts. I know there is a spec for belt deflection but I have always just tightened it to stop squealing. Regarding the hissing; is the steering column seal in place between the bottom 3 hole mounting bracket and the firewall? Did you take the column apart when modifying the shaft for the new PS gearbox?
Thanks for the suggestions. I should have explained better I used the BAC slip coupler that came with the kit, not a U joint. The steering column seal is also in place. Maybe I will try a different belt and re-tightening per Ricks instructions with a breaker bar and see if I can get the squealing/chattering to stop.
Icetech
Well-Known Member
Same here.. i was afraid i would after reading horror stories but no issue at all. (other than that little tin cover won't stay on.. i gave up on that)
From my past.
I used to be (gulp) True Blue, the power steering pumps on Ford's all seemed to have a problem when they got older. They would have a whine all the time. Replace the pump whine went away for a few years.
Since none of us can hear your sound (you could create a video and post it or save it to a cloud source and post a link. On apple and Google photos you can do that.)
The typical normal sounds from power steering:
Typical not normal sounds:
I am sitting still, the sound is heard and felt, solid u joint. Borgson type aftermarket steering box.
New video by Dana Nance
I used to be (gulp) True Blue, the power steering pumps on Ford's all seemed to have a problem when they got older. They would have a whine all the time. Replace the pump whine went away for a few years.
Since none of us can hear your sound (you could create a video and post it or save it to a cloud source and post a link. On apple and Google photos you can do that.)
The typical normal sounds from power steering:
- Guuuurrrrrrrr when the wheel is held at full stop left or right
- Wurrr while the wheel is being moved while stationary
- No detectable sounds while driving
Typical not normal sounds:
- Screeeeh all the time or while turning or full stop
- Guuuurrrrrrr all the time
I am sitting still, the sound is heard and felt, solid u joint. Borgson type aftermarket steering box.
New video by Dana Nance
Ha I know exactly what you are talking about with the Ford PS pump whine. I have a 78 Mustang II and fought that for a long time until I finally converted it to a non-ford style pump. I am tech challenged but I will try to figure out how to post a video of the noise. I snugged the belt up and hope that takes care of the squeal. However, the hissing sound at idle continues when I am not touching the wheel, and it sounds pretty similar to your video. Peter Bergman said some of the Borgeson boxes have that noise and I tried to port the fluid ports to help the flow but that did not help with the hissing noise.
If you lift the front of the ground and start the engine do the wheels turn by themselves?
It might be slight and the box is always slipping some pressure to one side or the other.
It might be slight and the box is always slipping some pressure to one side or the other.
Good thought I will check that and get back to you
Myrtle_the_Turtle
Member
Hey, did you ever figure this out? We have a 66 Belvedere, got the Borgeson box and the coupler from BAC too, and am also getting that terrible hissing. He says it’s the box, Borgeson says it his joint, one guy said a cheap auto store pump and good fluid fixed his. Before I rip the box out, I wanted to reach out and ask if you ever solved this. Hard to believe that this issue is all over the internet with this swap, but no one knows the solution. It drives great now, but the hissing is driving me nuts. Also, I notice at slow speeds it’s kinda jittery. I have a used TRW pump. Thanks in advance
How is the seal at the bottom of the column? Usually when sound is transmitted up the column from under the hood, that seal is either compromised or missing.
The hissing is from the ujoint type coupler. My sisters 65 mustang had power steering added and a ujoint type box. As you turn the wheel you can hear and feel the fluid in the box hissing
Icetech
Well-Known Member
He doesn't have a ujoint coupler he has the BAC one which is same as the factory mopar one but bout 1.5" longer..
Icetech
Well-Known Member
There are posts about lowering pump pressure a little bit which i believe someone mentioned stopped the noise (it's early and my brain could be lying to me)..
I only have the noise in the center position and almost no hiss at all but i plan to lower pressure a bit to make the steering a little heavier. but not til april or so..
If you want to try it, it costs next to nothing and should take 20 minutes tops..
While I'm waiting for some parts to get my engine back in, it was the perfect opportunity to do the "Pump It Down " modification to my power steering pump.
Already off the engine made it easier but still easy while in the car.
In the vise
Valve assembly out...
Stem disassembled
Little. 016 shim....
I'm lucky to work in a machine shop. ...made up some washers...
Stacked together. ...
Then just reassemble. ....
Honestly. ...it's easier than falling down drunk!
Jeff
Already off the engine made it easier but still easy while in the car.
In the vise
Valve assembly out...
Stem disassembled
Little. 016 shim....
I'm lucky to work in a machine shop. ...made up some washers...
Stacked together. ...
Then just reassemble. ....
Honestly. ...it's easier than falling down drunk!
Jeff
I have tried all the recommended solutions from BAC and I still have the hissing noise. However, I have not tried lowering the pump pressure so I may look into that. So far it has continued on both my original Chrysler pump as well as the newer Sagninaw pump. My seal at the bottom of the column is in good shape. I am convinced it is coming from the new Borgeson box internally. It's too bad because it feels great driving and is a great upgrade from the stock box.
Myrtle_the_Turtle
Member
I was hoping you had figured it out before I go down the same rabbit hole. Dang. He is so recommending the pump upgrade, which is another $400. Anyone I’ve read about that did it, it didn’t solve it. The guy seems real knowledgeable, and his customer service is great, but can’t believe this issue hasn’t been fixed. BAC says it’s the box, and needs to be swapped out. Borgeson says it’s the BAC coupler… but I’ve read about people with the u-joint that also have it. Only one I’ve read about that “solved it” swapped boxes, fluids, lines, Saginaw boxes, and what finally fixed it was a generic auto store pump. I’ve swapped out to the expensive Lucas PS fluid. No difference.
I have the borgeson box, the BAC coupler, the same used TRW pump and lines with his adapter. I can’t believe Bergman, Borgeson or some oversmart gearhead hasn’t figured it out yet. The box steers so nice, but the noise.
Myrtle_the_Turtle
Member
Was this link in reply to someone with this noise?There are posts about lowering pump pressure a little bit which i believe someone mentioned stopped the noise (it's early and my brain could be lying to me)..
I only have the noise in the center position and almost no hiss at all but i plan to lower pressure a bit to make the steering a little heavier. but not til april or so..
If you want to try it, it costs next to nothing and should take 20 minutes tops..
While I'm waiting for some parts to get my engine back in, it was the perfect opportunity to do the "Pump It Down " modification to my power steering pump.
Already off the engine made it easier but still easy while in the car.
In the vise
Valve assembly out...
Stem disassembled
Little. 016 shim....
I'm lucky to work in a machine shop. ...made up some washers...
Stacked together. ...
Then just reassemble. ....
Honestly. ...it's easier than falling down drunk!
Jeff
Myrtle_the_Turtle
Member
Did you buy an “off the shelf” Saginaw, or the one from BAC? He says he modifies his version of them. Just curious. Trying to start figuring this out. Also, what size HP hose do you have? Mine is a 66 slant/6 and I have the smaller 1/4 line (I believe) and apparently in like 69 they made it larger 3/8.
Icetech
Well-Known Member
Someone with the noise had said lowering pressure helped with the noise.. that link is just a guide on how to lower pressure
Myrtle_the_Turtle
Member
Ok thanks. You’ve replied a couple times here, and i appreciate that. Do you have the borgeson box? If so, hiss or no hiss? Thanks
Icetech
Well-Known Member
I have the borgeson kit from bergman and using the bergman coupler.. i have a tiny amount of hiss but only at center position.. I personally think it's a issue in the boxes. Lower pressure might help.. I find mine way too easy to turn anyway so will be trying it in the spring
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