Price you pay to play - 727

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388dart

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It was an eventfull weekend - new track - new best time in Alberta 11.997 - and then - and then -------- 727 explodes upon launch - and I do mean explodes. I believe the dip stick is salvagable - bent but salvagable.
Safety Blanket will be going in upon re-install.

Just goes to show, if there is a week component in anything - failure is inevitable - even with only 450hp in front of a 727. Its in so many pieces failure diagnostics is going to be almost impossible.


when I have it out I will post some pics - they won't be pretty!!

Only difference between little boys and big boys is "THE PRICE OF THERE TOYS".
 
388dart said:
727 explodes upon launch - and I do mean explodes. I believe the dip stick is salvagable - bent but salvagable.

Just goes to show, if there is a week component in anything - failure is inevitable - even with only 450hp in front of a 727. Its in so many pieces failure diagnostics is going to be almost impossible.
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Actualy I do not believe it will be so difficult. Check this thread out, bet you find something that applies to your situation. ---->Why torqueflites explode
 
Time to build a good tranny. Bolt in sprag and low band apply valve body. Give Chris at ART a call.
 
388dart said:
Safety Blanket will be going in upon re-install.
Click to expand...

You didn't have a blanket before???

I saw the results of a 727 explosion years back and that convinced me to put a blanket on my tranny right away. Get one, install it (the right way) and leave it there!
 
heres a few good pix...

automatic_trans_failure_2.jpg


automatic_trans_failure_3.jpg


automatic_trans_failure_4.jpg


automatic_trans_failure_5.jpg
 
More than low band apply, and a bolt in sprague, ge tthe billet steel front clutch retainer. Then the other two dont matter. I'd still run the blanket. And BTW the carbon fiber shields wont contain or deflect an exploding drum. A steel shield might, and the blanket does.
 
Some more food for thought...

The reason that Don Garlits is walking today around with only part of one foot is from a transmission explosion. And it's also the reason that he developed the rear engine dragster!

Gar-transexplosion-w.jpg


Garlits was running an overdrive B&J 2-speed transmission with some of his own designs. When he hit the throttle it was like a bomb went off. The 2-speed literally blew up and the results were immediate and devastating. The car was cut in half, severing Garlits' right foot at the arch in the process. Pieces went everywhere including the stands. One spectator lost an arm -- and another suffered near fatal injuries.
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The pic of the blown cuda trans is along the lines of 388dart's damage.

It went down instead of up, so it's the bottom that is blown to pieces, not the top.

Real mess.

I think I am going to look into a blanket also
 
The tird picture down is the tell tale. The piston and clutches are still intact from the high gear clutch assembly. The powdered metal drum normally surrounds them and encloses them by splining to the sun gear's drive shell. There are very few fragments of that drum left. All that kenetic energy is released as velocity when the drum comes apart. Those pcs are the ones that go thru carbon fiber, steel floorpans, I've seen them come ou thru the roof panels, and doors after piercing the floor from under the car. And it's still a hard sell, even to experienced racers.
 
Ouch. Sorry about your lack of luck. I do run a transblanket. Some guys scratched their heads because of my mild setup. Cheap insurance.
 
That blown Cuda shoud be running a glide with a special case and housing and not that 727. I don't believe anyone makes hardware and cases for a 727 that will accept that kind of power. There are glides build just for blown high HP applications. My brother has one behind a blown alcohol 396 in a FED that runs upper 6's @ 215 and it has had no problems. Garlits' car is why you need something reliable. The guy in that cuda is lucking he and spectators are in one piece. Both blankets and shields carry the same SFI rating so in his case it would not do any good. I have seen blankets ripped to shreds also.

I'll bet he would have won a Db drag from the sound that thing made when it went off.
 
Guitar Jones said:
You don't need a 'glide, what you need is an aluminum front drum and a good shield.
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And the proper burn out technique.
 
If I was running tech at the track when that happened and then he showed up again with a 727 he would not be running the car. I have been around NHRA along time, my dad was the tech director for Division 6 in the 60's and still active in the 70's so I grew up at the drag strip. I will tell you that car would be band from competition by the tech director until he had a trans with a special case like a 'glide. There would be no way to verifiy if he had the aluminum drum in the car. There is a reason drag racers don't use a 727 in blown high HP applications. The aluminum drum is just a band aid fix it still won't stop the sprag from failing. Sprags can only handle so much abuse then they let go. This is why they are making spragless converters for high HP applications. Look at that car, it could have very easily gone the other direction and if it had the driver would probably be in a wheel chair. All of this just so you can say you have a Mopar trans in the car and not a GM style trans. Not worth loosing your legs or live over ego.
 
340mopar said:
If I was running tech at the track when that happened and then he showed up again with a 727 he would not be running the car. I have been around NHRA along time, my dad was the tech director for Division 6 in the 60's and still active in the 70's so I grew up at the drag strip. I will tell you that car would be band from competition by the tech director until he had a trans with a special case like a 'glide. There would be no way to verifiy if he had the aluminum drum in the car. There is a reason drag racers don't use a 727 in blown high HP applications. The aluminum drum is just a band aid fix it still won't stop the sprag from failing. Sprags can only handle so much abuse then they let go. This is why they are making spragless converters for high HP applications. Look at that car, it could have very easily gone the other direction and if it had the driver would probably be in a wheel chair. All of this just so you can say you have a Mopar trans in the car and not a GM style trans. Not worth loosing your legs or live over ego.
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You couldn't ban the car from competition if it has the proper safety equipment for the ET it runs. There is no rule that says you can't have a Torqueflite in a blown application, and an aluminum front drum isn't required. If your Dad was a tech director he'd know that.

And it's not just to say you don't have a GM trans in your car. So you have a Dedenbear case 'glide, guess what, if you fill it with stock internals you have a bigger piece of crap than a stock Torqueflite bud.

Clutchflites (that's a Torqueflite with a clutch instead of a torque converter) were used behind early funny cars for years. Why you ask? Because it wasn't a wimpy, designed for 200 horsepower GM 2 speed.

Let me just say this before I get too pissed off. Just because everyone uses something, powerslide, 9" ford or whatever, doesn't mean it's the best and nothing else is suited to the task. A lot of people run smallblock Chevies too. Does that mean everything else is obsolete or inferior? Absolutely not. Because the majority of people have only average intelligence (that's how you get the average) the average person doesn't realize the superior engineering and durability of the Mopars. Including their transmissions. They just need to be treated differently than their brand X counterparts, but then we get back to that average, intelligence and monkey see, monkey do mentality thing.
 
That is scary, some of the racers has said to get a shield and i thought yeah right but after seeing that i wont be racing mine till i get a csi sfi shield, i like my feet.
 
First off yes you can ban a car from competition if it has the proper safety equipment. My dad did it plenty of times and I have done it also. Racing in competition is not a constitutional right and if any official thinks a car is unsafe it can be banned by the tech director, division director or track owner/promoter unless the car owner or driver can prove it is safe for competition. It is a guilting until proven innocent policy, it has to be there all kinds of people building weird stuff to run. In the case of the cuda I would make them teardown the trans to see if it indead did have the aluminum drum before it would be allowed to run.

Your right the stock glide isn't as strong as the stock 727 but I'm talking about setting up a trans with aftermarket race parts. Granted the aluminum drum will most likely keep the trans from exploding but it won't keep the sprag from failing and you won't know if the sprag failed so you would be running the car with a failed sprag. You would have to take apart the trans to see if it failed.

There is a reason they no longer use clutchflites, the cuda says it all. I'm sorry it bugs you so much but the glide is the one to use, thats why they are used so much in supercomp and comp.

Why would you get pissed off? The aftermarket companies have made a bullet proof trans out of the glide it's not worth getting worked up over. It's no different than all of the companies using Mopar's hemi design that everyone uses in the fuel classes.

It's great that you are so passionate about using only Mopar parts in your cars, I'm the same way but I won't compromise safety for the sake of being brand loyal. And I wouldn't let someone else do it either if I teching their car.

Chuck
 
Parts breakage is a part of racing. To ban a car because you think his 727 isn't up to the task is pushing it.

It's all fine to say an underbuilt trans isn't safe, but who knows what the internals are? Who knows how much power a car really makes till it actually makes a pass?


Besides, I doubt very many of the tech guys I've seen would know a 727 from a glide. The blatently obvious stuff that blows through the average tech inspection is quite mind boggling.
 
Ain't that the truth. I'll say it again, there is no rule that says you can't run a TorqueFlite in a blown application. Period end of subject. If the vehicle has all the required SFI equipment including chassis certification and the required safety equipment you can't ban the car unless there is something visibly wrong with it. If you are doing that you are going beyond the bounds of a tech inspection and entering the realm of psychics.

And as I said it's not about keeping a car all Mopar. The reason many people went to the 'glide wasn't because the aftermarket made them strong, it happened the other way around, the aftermarket responded to the need because many people were using them. Why you ask? Because in the late rounds when the track would start to go away many high horsepower cars found the 1.7 first gear of the 'glide to be more consistent where the three speeds would tend to blow the tires off. That is the only reason 'glides became so popular.
 
Chuck, As a tech inspector, I have to beleive you are entrusted to know what is safe, and why. You wouldnt let a fast soudningcar with an exhaust tubing roll bar run, because you know what the tubing has to do. In this case, the tech guys have no business doubting a fellows word. I've been refused running for safety stuff I wasnt aware of, and so didnt have. I'm all for supporting the sasfety guys. But, saying "it did it before, so you're banned until I see you've upgraded" is BS. The rule book is for the racer, and the inspector. Ten years ago, if what you're saying is true, any top fuel car that spit spark plugs out of the head, and the body, reaching far beyond the typical "down and out" blasts, should have been banned, until someone desinged a restraint system for them. Ive never seen a car that lost axle running a std wheel bearings show up and be denied access until he pulled a wheel and proved he had C clip eliminators. Sometimes, all you can do is inspect it close, take a good look at what they are running for stuff, and hope for the best. No one can fault an inspector for doing his best. That's the reason you are there. but banning a car based on one past problem is beyond doing ones best, and into re-interpreting the rules. The cause for the explosion wasnt a sprague. It was a result of a part not designed for the rpm the broken sprague caused. Powerglides are for light cars, or as said, way overpowered cars that need to run a number. Super class type deals. The fix should be an rule that specifies a steel or aluminum billet front clutch drum for torqueflites in cars running faster than 18.0 . A stock /6 can break a drum if the sprague breaks. Apparently NHRA and IHRA havent thought it a bad enough problem to make such a rule, so perhaps they are willing to accept the word of owners. This explosion wasnt on purpose, it was an oversight. I'm sure it will not happen on that car again. Your problem is the other 90% of mopars running that dont have the proper fix too. You should ban all them until proven fixed too if you hold that one accountable.
 
340mopar said "First off yes you can ban a car from competition if it has the proper safety equipment."

No, you can't. There is a reason there is a rule book for NHRA sanctioned events and it applies to techs as well as car builders and racers, if the vehicle in question has the necessary safety gear, you cannot "ban" it. If you think you can, you WILL NOT be Tech'ing for long, and I am certain you have not banned any vehicle for running a 727. And just as a "MATTER OF FACT" you should do a search of Super Stock rules for ANY and ALL the tracks you can find online, I'll bet you find that it says this for the Transmission section "Stock only. Reverse must operate at all times." or "OEM production 3 or 4 speed transmissions ONLY. Automatics allowed. Working reverse gear required at all times." I don't see any that say "Must run a glide only" and as a matter of fact you would be unable to race if you had anything but OEM stock in your Dodge Plymouth Crysler product. Wanna tell us how in your "techy godliness" you feel you can re-write the rules at "your whim"? You can't. There is a reason safety blankets and/or shields are required for certain types of racing and is suggested as general safety for all. $h!t happens, bet you also find at ANY race event you attend there is a disclaimer on your ticket or entrance pass that says something to the effect that "Racing is a dangerous sport and can cause severe injury or death, you participate at your own risk."

As to racing glides, they are easy on the horsepower they don't rob as much and they used to be literally a dime a dozen, thats why they became popular. They are getting a lot harder to find than they used to so you will see a shift to the next big "dime a dozen trans" at some point in the future.

No offense, but I grew up out on a farm for a while, your "My dad and I are big shot Tech's and can do what we want" smells a lot like the piles that are formed by the waste producing end of cattle.
 
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