Pride gone... asking for help

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This being my first mopar build... I've had to learn alot of new stuff. It's all familiar but different.
 
Let us know if that is rust on the top of some valves and in some of the pushrod cups, or just some sort of crud. If rust, then rust is an abrasive and running it like that will chew the heck out of those parts. And rust circulating around will chew up further parts. Waste o' time IMHO if it is as rusty as it looks.... Any rust deeper on the inside, like on the oil pump gear on the cam, is problematic. That gear is already a weak point. Seems like whoever jacked the car up by the gas tank also left the valve cover off for 20 years.....goodness.

BTW, when you pull the filter, you will see a tube sticking up out of the center. That is a standpipe, that keeps some of the oil from draining out of the filter when it sits. The filter relocation is an interesting idea, but not necessary as indicated.
 
nm9stheham said:
Let us know if that is rust on the top of some valves and in some of the pushrod cups, or just some sort of crud. If rust, then rust is an abrasive and running it like that will chew the heck out of those parts. And rust circulating around will chew up further parts. Waste o' time IMHO if it is as rusty as it looks.... Any rust deeper on the inside, like on the oil pump gear on the cam, is problematic. That gear is already a weak point. Seems like whoever jacked the car up by the gas tank also left the valve cover off for 20 years.....goodness.

BTW, when you pull the filter, you will see a tube sticking up out of the center. That is a standpipe, that keeps some of the oil from draining out of the filter when it sits. The filter relocation is an interesting idea, but not necessary as indicated.
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Ah I didn't think of that. Figured they hit a rock... maybe someone did use the tank to Jack the car up lol. The valve cover was on tight when I took it off .... but thinking back I don't remember seeing a crumbling 2 decade old gasket anywhere on there. Maybe it's been off before and left. The carb gasket was a concern when I noticed fuel was leaking out initially. Didn't mention that before. Forgot. Lol. They took the metal washer things from the old gasket that are built in and put them under carb with no gasket.... and had carb completely unhooked from hoses and loose. So I had a 1/4 inch gap almost from the ridiculously thick carb gasket being missing and the spacers there. Hard to explain what I mean there without being able to show you.
 
Mghampton said:
Ah I didn't think of that. Figured they hit a rock... maybe someone did use the tank to Jack the car up lol. The valve cover was on tight when I took it off .... but thinking back I don't remember seeing a crumbling 2 decade old gasket anywhere on there. Maybe it's been off before and left. The carb gasket was a concern when I noticed fuel was leaking out initially. Didn't mention that before. Forgot. Lol. They took the metal washer things from the old gasket that are built in and put them under carb with no gasket.... and had carb completely unhooked from hoses and loose. So I had a 1/4 inch gap almost from the ridiculously thick carb gasket being missing and the spacers there. Hard to explain what I mean there without being able to show you.
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And I can figure out why they would of put carb back on like that
 
nm9stheham said:
Let us know if that is rust on the top of some valves and in some of the pushrod cups, or just some sort of crud. If rust, then rust is an abrasive and running it like that will chew the heck out of those parts. And rust circulating around will chew up further parts. Waste o' time IMHO if it is as rusty as it looks.... Any rust deeper on the inside, like on the oil pump gear on the cam, is problematic. That gear is already a weak point. Seems like whoever jacked the car up by the gas tank also left the valve cover off for 20 years.....goodness.

BTW, when you pull the filter, you will see a tube sticking up out of the center. That is a standpipe, that keeps some of the oil from draining out of the filter when it sits. The filter relocation is an interesting idea, but not necessary as indicated.
Click to expand...
I'll check for more rust. I work 12 hour nights but only 3 days one week and 4 the other so I'll be back out there Wednesday to check out the motor again. I sprayed everything down with penetrating catalyst and spray lubricants and oil hoping to free some stuff up a bit by letting it soak. Need to find 3 p ushrods online unless I can heat those up and strssigbten them out.
 
If there is rust inside, the particles can get anywhere; it's bad ju-ju. Rust in the top will tend to flow with the oil down into the lifter gallery. It could get down past the lifters and chew the bores and will drop through the oil drain holes and drop onto the cam. Some will chew up the oil pump (which is before the filter) and the teenie-tiny particles get past the filter and chew on everything else.

BTW, if you had a carb leaking gas, then drain the oil and see if it is kinda thin. And smell it for gas. The carb gas leak could be an internal leak (common in some of the /6 carbs) and it'll leak down into the manifold, and go into the engine through open valves when stopped and dilute the oil. Excessive cylinder bore wear commonly is the result when the oil get gas-diluted past a certain %.
 
So... my odds... just aren't good without an overhaul of at least the head.... more than likely the entire engine if I find rust has spread through the internal workings of the head? Because it's probably gone everywhere like a cancer ?
 
Any non-trivial rust has to be gotten out. It's just the issue of the rust particles being an abrasive materials and chewing up the engine's innards. If it just on the top area of the head, and you get the head pulled off and all cleaned up and not get it down in the crankcase, then you have done yourself a biiiig favor.

Some light surface rust is OK, but it looks like heavy rust scale on some valve tips and in some pushrod cups in your pi\x. But I can't quite tell from the photo if it is rust scale or just oil crud; the photo angle is making it hard to tell. That is why I asked directly if it is rust. And if the rockers are not moving smoothly on the rocker shaft due to rust, that is bad enough rust to disassemble the shaft and rockers 100% for sure IMHO.
 
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BTW, heat working the pushrods will very probably weaken them. Try cold working them in small increments.

And yes on the 'familiar but different'. A lot of knowledge transfers from engine to engine.
 
I hope its just surface rust on the valvetrain, you can wire brush that stuff off pretty good, but not while its on the motor. Removing the head is like a 2-3 hour job with all that AC stuff attached but will yield all the info you'll need to determine what shape its in. bore wear, cylinder condition, depth of rust migration. head gaskets are cheap at rockauto unless you got a local place that wont get you on shipping. I got a closeout MAHLE head gasket for $6.00 once. I can guarantee your valve seals are gone too. just plastic bits in the pan by now. Evaporust in a 1 gallon jug is a great restoration tool, drop all the rockers in bucket of that stuff overnight and the rust will 'evaporate".
1973 DODGE DART 3.7L 225cid L6 Cylinder Head Gasket / Head Gasket Set | RockAuto
 
Mghampton said:
Every project I tend to get in over my head. But then I learn new things and am better for the next project. I wish I had more knowledge faster so Id have more skills faster and could get my projects done faster, better and cooler.
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none of us were born with all the skills we would like to have. I a dmit it all can be frustrating, but learning and developing new skills is fun. and fixing just 1 small thing is rewarding to me. I never tire of fixing just small things, and when I do fix a larger problem I really get excited!!! ha
one great thing about this forum. so many knowledgable people that are willing to help anyone that asks.
 
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