Problems starting my new 408

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sport74

sport74

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Fellas, I have a new 408, has 10.65:1 comp, using a new tuff stuff mini denso starter. I have a good battery, and my timing is set to 10* BTDC. Stock wiring from the battery to the starter. Every time I try to start the engine, it spins freely for 3 to 4 complete rotations then begins to slowly drag. If you can get it fired in that window, evryrhever is ok. If not you have to wait for the wires to cool. Remove the plugs and it'll spin fine. Put them back in and it starts dragging again. It would spin fine prior to the first start up, but as soon as we had it running (30 seconds) then it stalled, that is when this problem started. At this point, I'm thinking the newer starter is pulling too many amps and the higher compression isn't helping the situation. Any advice is greatly appreciated.
 
Yes cables get hot and eventually, start smoking the insulation. I haven't hooked up the V can
 
Do a load test on the battery. May not be holding up to a load. Make sure all connections are clean- battery cables, relay, starter. After we eliminate these, then we suspect the starter.
 
Starter gear to flywheel clearance changes as the whole thing heats up????? If it's too close it will cause the starter to drag.
 

sport74 said:
. WhatsW the best way to check the clearance?
Click to expand...
The last one I did I had the engine and trans out of the car so I'm not sure what's the best method when you have everything installed....but I'm sure someone will chime in and help with that. You should have .020" to .025" clearance (cold) between the top a starter gear tooth and the bottom of the flywheel tooth (valley).
 
I had to put a shim between the mini starter and my bellhousing. I think it was around ten bucks.
 
Ok so here's my progress : new 1000 amp battery, new ground straps, added a couple of extra ground straps, new starter, new 2 gauge cable from the battery to the starter, new terminal for the battery, added a spacer in the top bolt hole to ensure it didn't tweak as it was trying to start. Everytime it gets a decent amount of fuel (gas or starting fluid) it bogs down until it's blown out of the cylinders. Pulled the plug wire and verified that I still have spark.
 
Could the distributor by 180 out or could you have a few plug wires switched???
 
sport74 said:
I've had it running, and after it stopped, that's when these issues started
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Ok, just so you can get the best suggestions possible....You say that the car had been running fine. Then after the last run you parked it , turned the motor "off". Then the next time you tried to start the motor that's when it had these starting issues??. You changed nothing between the time (you parked it) it ran well and the time the starting issue began??
 
It was the initial startup, ran good until the bowls went empty. I forgot to turn on the electric fuel pump in all my excitement! Immediatley went to start it back and that was the first time the starter drug, once it cooled down it would spin freely
 
sport74 said:
Fellas, I have a new 408, has 10.65:1 comp, using a new tuff stuff mini denso starter. I have a good battery, and my timing is set to 10* BTDC. Stock wiring from the battery to the starter. Every time I try to start the engine, it spins freely for 3 to 4 complete rotations then begins to slowly drag. If you can get it fired in that window, evryrhever is ok. If not you have to wait for the wires to cool. Remove the plugs and it'll spin fine. Put them back in and it starts dragging again. It would spin fine prior to the first start up, but as soon as we had it running (30 seconds) then it stalled, that is when this problem started. At this point, I'm thinking the newer starter is pulling too many amps and the higher compression isn't helping the situation. Any advice is greatly appreciated.
Click to expand...
Nothing wrong with your compression ratio; in fact, if you look at the dynamic ratio, it's probably less than the stock 360.Well with a 4" arm maybe not, but the point is the same.
>But your wires are not supposed to get hot, they are telling you a story: either the starter is shorting, or the cables are too small, or not likely but possibly, your 10* advance ain't 10* advance.
>I would run a set of Booster cables in parallel with the factory cables, and if it still drags, try a different starter. I have an old Dakota starter on my 367 also at 10.9. It was well-used and ancient when I installed it in ~2000. It probably has a qtr million miles on her by now.
>If the cam has not yet been broken, then you might be in a bit of a pickle here, because by now the cam lube may all be in the pan.
 
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sport74 said:
It was the initial startup, ran good until the bowls went empty. I forgot to turn on the electric fuel pump in all my excitement! Immediatley went to start it back and that was the first time the starter drug, once it cooled down it would spin freely
Click to expand...
So it starts up just fine when the motor is cold and won't start (starter drags) when it's warmed up (like 150-180 degrees).??? The engine continues to run just fine once it's started up when it's cold??
 
I can't get it to start at all. I've gone back to basics, it gets plenty of air as it has no breather on it due to these issues, I have visually verified spark from the #1 plug boot, has good compression and spins at a good speed, until fuel gets in the cylinder. Possibly fouled plugs? I didn't pull a plug and verify spark there, I will try that tomorrow. I can't seem to think of another scenario that explains it. This car continually fights me and I'm running out of hair to pull out lol
 
If it stops cranking (or cranks really slugishly) when the cylinders get fuel then it could be timing. I know you said that the timing was set properly but it if gets fuel then the spark fires as the piston is coming up it will stall out the motor. It almost sounds like hydrolock, as if you had water in the cylinders. I know that it probably doesn't have water in the cylinders so the next option is that the plugs are firing way too early, you know, like when the car it way too far advanced??/ Don't get too frustrated, think about how cool it will be when you get it running. When frustration starts to set in I usually take a break or wait til the next day to clear my head so I can think better. It's probably something simple.
You can also remove all the plugs and crank the engine while someone watches to see if any liquids shoot out of the cylinders. treblig
 
Treblig said:
If it stops cranking (or cranks really slugishly) when the cylinders get fuel then it could be timing. I know you said that the timing was set properly but it if gets fuel then the spark fires as the piston is coming up it will stall out the motor. It almost sounds like hydrolock, as if you had water in the cylinders. I know that it probably doesn't have water in the cylinders so the next option is that the plugs are firing way too early, you know, like when the car it way too far advanced??/ Don't get too frustrated, think about how cool it will be when you get it running. When frustration starts to set in I usually take a break or wait til the next day to clear my head so I can think better. It's probably something simple.
You can also remove all the plugs and crank the engine while someone watches to see if any liquids shoot out of the cylinders. treblig
Click to expand...

Is 14* too much for initial startup? I was doing some research and came across a thread that said that much for initial was too much and caused excessive heat. They were recommending 30-35* for initial startup claimed it would start easier that way
 
To begin with your compression ratio is a little higher than normal so that's one strike against you when it comes to cranking the motor. Higher compression motors many times are harder to crank, especially "before" the engine is "broken in" because everything is super tight. Then if your spark is a little early it REALLY makes it hard to start. When I first start a new motor I usually have the dist a little loose so I can rotate it while I crank it to find the sweet spot. I've had many "new" engine" bog down at initial start up, when they bog down I have someone rotate the distributor as I crank the motor until it turn more freely. Or if you're by yourself get a remote starter switch from O'reillys. It might not ever start unless you find it's "happy place" when it comes to timing. Once you get the cam "broke in" you can mess with the timing and get it where you want it. Haven't you ever watched any of the car building channels on TV an seen how they move the distributor to get the engine to start??? Every engine is different so there's really no set "timing" for initial engine start up....there are too many variables (cam, compression, fuel, etc). Treblig
 
Thanks for the info, I'm mostly working by myself but the dizzy is just loose enough to move by hand so I can adjust it. A remote starter switch is a great suggestion. I'll look into that and hopefully I will be able to make some progress once I have one of those.
 
I got this one at O'Reillys, didn't cost too much at all but it comes in handy!!

DSC07921.JPG
 
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