Raising shift points

[TrailBeast]

So, I have seen a lot of questions about changing shift timing and the shift kit debate, and I'm sure that some (like me) are working with budgets.
The TF series of transmissions were designed to basically make Granny comfortable going to the grocery store with reliability.
Problem is, that now days we want these tranny's to be a bit more agressive, just a bit later shift since they were generally in 3rd by the time you were doing 15 miles an hour under light throttle.
This page I put on the net shows how to up the shiftpoints 10-15 miles an hour later for about 10 cents, without messing with the governor, pressure regulator, or valvebody.
As a matter of fact, it's all done under the hood.
My car with this setup shifts from first to second at about 25 miles an hour, and into third at just over 30 under normal light throttle driving.
under full throttle it shifts into second at about 45 and third at about 80.

It's here http://www.letsgocomputers.com/shifts.htm

 

[Bulldozer]

Trailbeast, that is a great idea. i have been fighting kickdown problems. i had a 2 barrel on it and it worked ok but not the way i wanted it to. in other words, i had to really mash the pedal to kick it from 3rd to 2nd. i put a 4 barrel on it and i have the right linkage but i just cant get it dialed in . i still have to push the pedal really far down to get it to shift. i have tried adjusting it everywhere possible to the point that it wouldnt allow the secondaries to open all the way to where it was backed off, and everywhere in between. my question is this, what would happen if i were to just mount the kickdown rod solid to the throttle arm adjusted so there is about an 1/8 to 1/4 gap at WOT? would this work too?

 

[TrailBeast]

The problem is, if you make the kickdown linkage a solid mechanical link that leads the throttle then your not able to go WOT.
The spring will make the trans think you are going a little faster than you really are and delay the shift AND stretch to allow the full open throttle after the kickdown is already bottomed out.
As you pointed out, it will also make the passing gear kickdown come in sooner.
I works great for a stock smallblocks that one wants to give a little attitude to.

Trailbeast, that is a great idea. i have been fighting kickdown problems. i had a 2 barrel on it and it worked ok but not the way i wanted it to. in other words, i had to really mash the pedal to kick it from 3rd to 2nd. i put a 4 barrel on it and i have the right linkage but i just cant get it dialed in . i still have to push the pedal really far down to get it to shift. i have tried adjusting it everywhere possible to the point that it wouldnt allow the secondaries to open all the way to where it was backed off, and everywhere in between. my question is this, what would happen if i were to just mount the kickdown rod solid to the throttle arm adjusted so there is about an 1/8 to 1/4 gap at WOT? would this work too?

 

[Bulldozer]

ok, well today i am going to try the spring trick in your outline. i am kind of fighting two problems at once here. the trans is a 67 727 and bone stock as far as i know, it feels solid and when the kickdown is adjusted as best as i can get it, i can almost get a 1-2 bark. but when its even slightly misadjusted the shifts get soft and early. if i manually shift from 1-2, i am getting an overlap. i have never had the pan off, so i dont know if it has a kit in it, so for now, i have been just starting with the shifter in 2nd and manually shifting into 3rd. if i just leave it in drive, it does shift through the gears on its own, but i can hardly feel them and they are way early. so i will report back on the new adjustment.

 

[TrailBeast]

It's def gonna change things, so be patient.
There are accumulator and servo mods that can be done to cure that overlap if needed.
They are really easy, but the valvebody would have to come down.

 

[tekslk]

I just installed the lokar throttle and kick down cables and I couldnt believe the diffrence in how nice it shifts plus kick down is there now.

 

[toolmanmike]

Years ago I put a B&M shift improver kit in my 73 Challenger. I could bark 2nd. any time I wanted but if I drove it easy it would shift firm but not harsh. Adjusting the kick down will firm up the shifts but will also raise the rpm when it shifts. Too far and you might not have passing gear. tmm

 

[TrailBeast]

My kickdown was already adjusted out all the way, so I came up with the spring idea.

Years ago I put a B&M shift improver kit in my 73 Challenger. I could bark 2nd. any time I wanted but if I drove it easy it would shift firm but not harsh. Adjusting the kick down will firm up the shifts but will also raise the rpm when it shifts. Too far and you might not have passing gear. tmm

 

[Bulldozer]

with my kickdown set with the back of the adjuster against the throttle rod it was shifting from 1 to 2 at about 15 mph and with a relatively soft shift. i put the spring on and got the back of the adjuster about a 1/2 inch away from the throttle rod and now it shifts at about 25 mph with a much firmer shift and if i get on it , it will pertneer bark em' . this WORKS . thanks for the tip TrailBeast !

it was a little but of a pain to find a spring that would give me the setting and i to "rig" it, but now that i know it works, im looking for a stronger spring with the same rate as this one.
what is yours off of TrailBeast?

 

[mmdoctor]

73AbodEE,

Can you please shoot a pic of your setup from the top that shows how your throttle cable is connected?

I plan on adding TrailBeast's spring myself, but am confused about where to connect my throttle cable?

I have a new eddy carb with the mopar adapter (#1481) already installed.

If your throttle cable pulls the top of the linkage back (toward the firewall), that means the tranny linkage should move forward as throttle is increased, correct?

 

[TrailBeast]

73's is different from mine, but on my Eddy 600 the throttle cable connects to the same post as the throttle pressure rod, just the other end of it.
It's the factory location.
I don't see 73's throttle cable in the pic where mine attaches.

Oh, and the throttle pressure linkage moves back towards the firewall also when the gas pedal is pushed.

Hope this helped.

73AbodEE,

Can you please shoot a pic of your setup from the top that shows how your throttle cable is connected?

I plan on adding TrailBeast's spring myself, but am confused about where to connect my throttle cable?

I have a new eddy carb with the mopar adapter (#1481) already installed.

If your throttle cable pulls the top of the linkage back (toward the firewall), that means the tranny linkage should move forward as throttle is increased, correct?

 

[Bulldozer]

im just using my 2 barrel bracket of which i just bent over some so that it lines up with the throttle rod on the carb. i just used my 2 barrel throttle rod through the linkage on the carb with no adapter.

 

[bobscuda67]

Edelbrock carbs require the 1481 Mopar bracket.
As the throttle is opened the trans throttle pressure rod should move back towards the firewall.
Remember there are two adjustments for the throttle pressure rod.
The adjustment everyone uses is at wot the throttle rod should be all the way back towards the firewall, with an 1/8 inch of play. You don't want to bind things up. this is correct for a car with the origimal carb, linkage and trans.
But if you go to an aftermarket carb, different linkage or change from 2brl. to 4 brl. you have to adjust the linkage at idle.
At idle, the TV valve cam , located on the valvebody, should have about an 1/8 inch play to the TV valve tip. That way when you're shifting into second gear, the TV valve is adding pressure to the trans. If you can't get both adjustments correct, than your linkage geometry is messed up.
I have a 4 brl. carb with 2 brl. linkage and struggled to get it to work. I had to make the linkage longer to get both adjustments right.
I don't understand why you added a spring to your carb. Why not just take off the return spring and let the throttle pressure rod float. It will firm up the shifts and make them later, maybe to late though.
If anyone is interested how I set mine up, I can post a pic.

 

[TrailBeast]

I don't understand why you added a spring to your carb. Why not just take off the return spring and let the throttle pressure rod float. It will firm up the shifts and make them later, maybe to late though.
If anyone is interested how I set mine up, I can post a pic.

They make the adapter bracket, but it's not required to have that specific bracket.
I made my own with a 1/16 thick and 1/2 wide peice of aluminum and have the original two barrel pin through it for the throttle and throttle pressure to connect as originally intended.

The TP rod will not just "float" with out the return spring because there is also a spring in the TP valve in the valvebody, although it would hang back a little and only make a difference at very low speeds. (Only make a diff until the pin on the linkage caught up with the TP linkage)

The spring makes the TP lead the actuall linkage a little through the whole range of movement, therefore raising the shiftpoints and pressure across the board. (Not just at low, or just at high speeds)

I have mine adjusted to what is probably a little tight for most people.
As I suspect 73's is from the picture and his discription of the shifts, but that can be adjusted to anywhere you like it.
I get a good firm 1-2 shift at about 20-25 mph and a nice quick 2-3 shift at about 40 under normal driving.
If I'm on the gas, say going up an onramp to the freeway with a wide open throttle I get the 2-3 shift at about 70.

Like I said, a little late and firm for most I think.

There is another way to get the same result, and that would be to take some of the weight off of the governor valve so that it requires a faster output shaft speed to make the weighted valve move and therefor later shifts.
Unfortunatly, that cannot be undone nearly as easy as taking the spring back off the carb linkage.

I wanted something quick, simple, effective, adjustable and easily reversible.

 

[Bulldozer]

Edelbrock carbs require the 1481 Mopar bracket.

as you can see from the pic , you dont have to have the mopar bracket. and if i did have one on the carb, my throttle cable bracket would never line up. nor would my TP rod. i drive this car every day and its works perfectly.

 

[bobscuda67]

They make the adapter bracket, but it's not required to have that specific bracket.
I made my own with a 1/16 thick and 1/2 wide peice of aluminum and have the original two barrel pin through it for the throttle and throttle pressure to connect as originally intended.

The TP rod will not just "float" with out the return spring because there is also a spring in the TP valve in the valvebody, although it would hang back a little and only make a difference at very low speeds. (Only make a diff until the pin on the linkage caught up with the TP linkage)

The spring makes the TP lead the actuall linkage a little through the whole range of movement, therefore raising the shiftpoints and pressure across the board. (Not just at low, or just at high speeds)

I have mine adjusted to what is probably a little tight for most people.
As I suspect 73's is from the picture and his discription of the shifts, but that can be adjusted to anywhere you like it.
I get a good firm 1-2 shift at about 20-25 mph and a nice quick 2-3 shift at about 40 under normal driving.
If I'm on the gas, say going up an onramp to the freeway with a wide open throttle I get the 2-3 shift at about 70.

Like I said, a little late and firm for most I think.

There is another way to get the same result, and that would be to take some of the weight off of the governor valve so that it requires a faster output shaft speed to make the weighted valve move and therefor later shifts.
Unfortunatly, that cannot be undone nearly as easy as taking the spring back off the carb linkage.

I wanted something quick, simple, effective, adjustable and easily reversible.

My 67 linkage is a little different than yours. But by removing the return spring my shift points are almost exactly the same as yours.
I see what you are doing with the spring now. But wouldn't screwing out the slotted adjuster do the same thing?

 

[bobscuda67]

as you can see from the pic , you dont have to have the mopar bracket. and if i did have one on the carb, my throttle cable bracket would never line up. nor would my TP rod. i drive this car every day and its works perfectly.

My trans was shifting fine too, I thought, untill I talked to a tech. He told me to put a gauge on it to see where the throttle was when the trans pressure was starting to rise. The throttle moved 3/4 of an inch before the pressure started to increase. It had bad linkage geometry. Changed it around and now it starts to increase at off idle. If left alone I might have burned up the clutches.

 

[TrailBeast]

The adjuster was all the way out already due to sticking an Eddy on it without the adapter you brought up earlier.
I also would have had to buy a new throttle cable bracket for the rear of the intake.
As it is, I had to change the angle of the bracket to line up with the carb, like 73 did I suspect.

Lokar linkages, adapters, shift kits are all great but still all have thier drawbacks be it cost, labor or both.
The spring is functional and 10 cents.

 

[bobscuda67]

The adjuster was all the way out already due to sticking an Eddy on it without the adapter you brought up earlier.
I also would have had to buy a new throttle cable bracket for the rear of the intake.
As it is, I had to change the angle of the bracket to line up with the carb, like 73 did I suspect.

Lokar linkages, adapters, shift kits are all great but still all have thier drawbacks be it cost, labor or both.
The spring is functional and 10 cents.

Hey if it works, more power to ya!

 

[mmdoctor]

bobscuda67,

Could you please post a close up pic of your throttle/kickdown linkage setup? I'm using the OEM '67 linkage and throttle cable with a new eddy 650. I was able to find a pic of how/where to attach my thottle cable, but haven't seen how/where to connect my kickdown linkage?

I've also seen a bunch of pictures with a return spring going from the long end (toward the drivers side) of the accelerator stud back toward the firewall, but my spring goes from the front end of my slotted rod forward (toward the nose of the car)?

Thanks for your help!

 

[bobscuda67]

Sure can.