Hello - new to the site! This will be my first post so bear with me! Setup is a 1966 barracuda 273 two barrel. Auto trans. Just had the engine rebuilt by a local mechanic. Story is that the 3-4 week job turned into a 5 month ordeal (hard to get him motivated). I wound up calling it quits and picked up my car a few days ago. The process was about 95% complete. The only thing left to do was wire it up and fire it up. I referred to some old pics I took of the engine to wire it all up. Basically right now I have the car cranking. It is not getting fuel, and the only way fuel it is the pour some gas down the carb. When I do, it gives me a few backfires and then nothing, just keeps cranking. Not completely sure where to go from here. I turned the distributor 180 and it didn't even give me a backfire so I figure I had it right the first time and turned it back. Help! If I'm missing any info let me know! Thanks guys!
Rebuilt 273 - starting for the first time! Help!
- Thread starter Corbs
- Start date
-
71Scamper
Mopar runs thru my veins!
what kind of fuel pump, electric or mechanical? Also, did he install a new cam? if so you need to follow the manufacturers recommendation for breaking it in. usually it's holding the engine a 2k rpm for around 15 minutes.
If you keep just screwing with the engine to get it started you may end up ruining the cam.
If you keep just screwing with the engine to get it started you may end up ruining the cam.
I'm not going to crank it anymore until I get a game plan in order. The mechanical pump was working correctly before the rebuild, of course that was about 5 months ago :-&
71Scamper
Mopar runs thru my veins!
reusing the original cam doesn't require a break in. Do you know if you have fuel coming from the pump into the carb?
I had to crank mine a long time (too long) to get it started. I had put some gas down the bowl vent in the carb but not enough. If You're belching fire out of the top of the carb, the timing isn't right. Double check the timing by static timing the engine. That will get you very close. Have someone crank the engine and you can run the throttle and spray some carb spray into the carb. Have a extinguisher and a damp towel handy just in case.
Turn the engine to 0 degrees on the timing check. Unbolt your distributor and reset it 180 degrees. That happens to me every now and then!! :banghead:
67Dart273
Well-Known Member
There are three things you need for an engine to run
Compression, spark "in time" and fuel
=================================================================
COMPRESSION
Have you checked compression? Are you CERTAIN the valves are properly adjusted? How exactly did you adjust them? (I'm assuming since this is a 273, it likely has adjustable valves and may be a solid lifter cam)
==============================================================
TIMING
You likely have the distributor 1/2 turn off
You need to learn to set up the distributor. This is a very basic, but very easy procedure once you really learn and understand. Try this:
http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showpost.php?p=1969972787&postcount=22
So if you read that and are totally confused, try this:
There are two ways to initially install a distributor and know that the timing will be close
A--IF the valve covers are off, bring the timing marks up to about 10BTC and look at the no 1 and no6 valves. One cylinder will have both valves closed, the other cylinder will have both valves open by an approximately equal amount. If both no6 valves are closed, install the distributor so the rotor points to the no6 plug wire tower. If both no1 valves are closed, install the dist. with the rotor point to the no 1 wire tower.
B--The second method is to remove the no1 plug, stick your finger in the hole, and bump the starter. You may have to "go round" a couple of times if you haven't done this. When you feel compression on your finger, look at the marks, which should be "on their way" up. Wrench the engine up to 10BTC or so. This IS no1 "ready to fire." Install the dist, rotor pointing to the no1 plug tower
Now, you need to set the timing. Set your vacuum advance in a "good" position, IE room to swing it a little, and look where the rotor points. Look at the breaker points, and use a light hooked to the coil NEG terminal (distributor). Turn the key to run, turn the distributor clockwise some to retard the timing. This is to "get slack out" of the mechanism. Now, slowly rotate the dist CCW until the light turns on. Snug the distributor clamp down at that point.
Check the cap, the rotor should now just be "coming to" a plug wire tower, and this is your no 1 wire postion
If you follow this carefully and do so correctly, the ignition timing will be close enough that the engine will fire and run WELL
You can ALSO check timing "on the starter" with a timing light. Just hook the light up as if the engine was going to run, have someone twist the starter, and check the timing at the marks.
===============================================================
FUEL
I would temporarily abandon the fuel pump issue, and SAFELY rig a container of gas up above with a siphon hose into the carb inlet. This will give you clean fresh fuel and a known good supply of fuel. Of course you need to plug the outlet from the engine pump.
The old tank may have several issues, including............
Gummed up filter sock in the tank pickup,
rotted collapsing rubber connector hoses at both the tank and the pump inlet
gummed up fuel line front to rear, or even rusted through (pinholes)
bad fuel pump
and of course old fuel
============================================================
Compression, spark "in time" and fuel
=================================================================
COMPRESSION
Have you checked compression? Are you CERTAIN the valves are properly adjusted? How exactly did you adjust them? (I'm assuming since this is a 273, it likely has adjustable valves and may be a solid lifter cam)
==============================================================
TIMING
You likely have the distributor 1/2 turn off
You need to learn to set up the distributor. This is a very basic, but very easy procedure once you really learn and understand. Try this:
http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showpost.php?p=1969972787&postcount=22
So if you read that and are totally confused, try this:
There are two ways to initially install a distributor and know that the timing will be close
A--IF the valve covers are off, bring the timing marks up to about 10BTC and look at the no 1 and no6 valves. One cylinder will have both valves closed, the other cylinder will have both valves open by an approximately equal amount. If both no6 valves are closed, install the distributor so the rotor points to the no6 plug wire tower. If both no1 valves are closed, install the dist. with the rotor point to the no 1 wire tower.
B--The second method is to remove the no1 plug, stick your finger in the hole, and bump the starter. You may have to "go round" a couple of times if you haven't done this. When you feel compression on your finger, look at the marks, which should be "on their way" up. Wrench the engine up to 10BTC or so. This IS no1 "ready to fire." Install the dist, rotor pointing to the no1 plug tower
Now, you need to set the timing. Set your vacuum advance in a "good" position, IE room to swing it a little, and look where the rotor points. Look at the breaker points, and use a light hooked to the coil NEG terminal (distributor). Turn the key to run, turn the distributor clockwise some to retard the timing. This is to "get slack out" of the mechanism. Now, slowly rotate the dist CCW until the light turns on. Snug the distributor clamp down at that point.
Check the cap, the rotor should now just be "coming to" a plug wire tower, and this is your no 1 wire postion
If you follow this carefully and do so correctly, the ignition timing will be close enough that the engine will fire and run WELL
You can ALSO check timing "on the starter" with a timing light. Just hook the light up as if the engine was going to run, have someone twist the starter, and check the timing at the marks.
===============================================================
FUEL
I would temporarily abandon the fuel pump issue, and SAFELY rig a container of gas up above with a siphon hose into the carb inlet. This will give you clean fresh fuel and a known good supply of fuel. Of course you need to plug the outlet from the engine pump.
The old tank may have several issues, including............
Gummed up filter sock in the tank pickup,
rotted collapsing rubber connector hoses at both the tank and the pump inlet
gummed up fuel line front to rear, or even rusted through (pinholes)
bad fuel pump
and of course old fuel
============================================================
Wow thanks for all the info fellas! Unfortunately I just put everything on hold, I heard a gurgling sound and saw I had a red fluid pouring out underneath the car. Hmmm, first thought was tranny fluid ( it was seeping from where the engine meets the tranny). Checked my oil level and guess what...no oil! Glad I chose the right mechanic for the job. I'm going to go bang my head against the wall for a few hours. If I'm still conscious I'll diagnose the issue tonight.
chryslerfat
Well-Known Member
Maybe you could find a member nearby to help you out.
JP_Allison
Active Member
- Joined
- May 30, 2009
- Messages
- 28
- Reaction score
- 3
One more thing. Make sure you are getting voltage to the coil while cranking. If it is not, you will only get fire when releasing the key from the "Start" to the "Run" position. (I ran into this after a rebuild.) If you think that this is a possibility; run a TEMPORARY wire from the hot side of the battery or the big lug on solenoid to the + side of the coil for testing purposes. To repeat the basic steps
1.) Make sure oil is in the crankcase.
ops:
2.)Turn engine until #1 piston is coming up on the compression stroke.
3.)Put timing mark on 5 or 10 degrees before... 0 should also start it.
4.)Install/Verify distributor timing.
5.)Verify firing order.
6.)Secure gas jug and set up siphon to carb. to eliminate potential supply problems.
7.)Check that accelerator pump is spraying gas. Failure means Carb. is suspect. :cussing:
8.)Hot wire ignition ....Temporarily.
9.)Quick shot of Ether and small amount of gas
10.)Start :burnout:
***Keep towel ready in case backfire cases carb. fire*** :banghead:
1.) Make sure oil is in the crankcase.
ops:2.)Turn engine until #1 piston is coming up on the compression stroke.
3.)Put timing mark on 5 or 10 degrees before... 0 should also start it.
4.)Install/Verify distributor timing.
5.)Verify firing order.
6.)Secure gas jug and set up siphon to carb. to eliminate potential supply problems.
7.)Check that accelerator pump is spraying gas. Failure means Carb. is suspect. :cussing:
8.)Hot wire ignition ....Temporarily.
9.)Quick shot of Ether and small amount of gas
10.)Start :burnout:
***Keep towel ready in case backfire cases carb. fire*** :banghead:
71Scamper
Mopar runs thru my veins!
Wish I was. I would definitely help you get it running right!
I work at a corporate jet company. I could fly you out in a GIV for about $4000.....one way.
Johnny Dart
Well-Known Member
Might want to take a peek and see that the distributor drive gear is pointing at the front left manifold bolt,at TDC.
Some will say it doesn't matter as long as blah blah blah.
But I like to do things the way the factory intended. No questions that way.
Put the motor on TDC.
Pull the distributor.
The groove on the dist gear should face the front left manifold bolt.
You can either eye it,or use a straight edge.
If not,back it out with a screwdriver,and reinstall it so it is in alignment with the front left manifold bolt.
Now reinstall the dist so your rotor faces the same bolt.
Leave the motor right there (TDC)for firing.
Some will say it doesn't matter as long as blah blah blah.
But I like to do things the way the factory intended. No questions that way.
Put the motor on TDC.
Pull the distributor.
The groove on the dist gear should face the front left manifold bolt.
You can either eye it,or use a straight edge.
If not,back it out with a screwdriver,and reinstall it so it is in alignment with the front left manifold bolt.
Now reinstall the dist so your rotor faces the same bolt.
Leave the motor right there (TDC)for firing.
That works fine as long as you are using a mopar distributor. If you use an MSD, the drive tang will be way off from where the book says #1 plug wire goes.
Get the thing to #1 compression stroke on balancer/timing mark. Make sure the rotor points to whatever cap tower #1 plug wire is in. You can do a quick timing deal by just twisting the distributor body with a timing light attached with engine at TDC. Give it about a 10* twist CCW. Then try to start it.
If the carb is dry, use a kids liquid medicine syringe from a pharmacy to fill the carb bowls through it's vent tubes. If a holley, pull the sight plugs and look for the level as you fill it. You don't need to fill it completely.
You may need to advance it more to get it started initially.
67Dart273
Well-Known Member
As one of the other members on here once said, the distributor gear can point to china
As long as the rotor points to the no1 wire --wherever it may be-- and the spark timing is right it will run
Hell I've fired engines with NO carburetor, just threw a little fuel down the open manifold.
68 CUDA FORMULA S
Well-Known Member
P.M. sent
71Scamper
Mopar runs thru my veins!
I'll take you up on that if your willing to comp. me a one time round trip all in good faith that I get the car running lol!
cudavert
DARTAHOLIC
Didjya break in the motor @ WOT? YEEHAAWWW LMAO:burnout:
Thanks everyone! I folded and took it to a local mechanic, just got it back yesterday. It's nice to have all 8 cylinders firing! :thumleft: It seems to be burning a little oil, and I've heard that the rings could still be trying to seat. Any input?
cudavert
DARTAHOLIC
So....how much is a "little oil"? Nowadays, I don't think rebuilt engines should really burn much oil at all if the rebuild was done correctly.
71Scamper
Mopar runs thru my veins!
You could have a little consumption for the first couple thousand miles but anything substantial, (over a quart) during the first couple thousand miles would have me concerned.
-
