Rebuilt 318 install problem

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Thank you all for all the recommendation and suggestions. I will try starting from scratch tonight and see what results I get.

I've looked all over the web for the answer "Will the engine run with the distributor 180 out?"

It seems as though some say it will and others say it won't. The people who say it will say it will pop out the carb and not run well and generally won't start again (without moving the distributor). That seems like my symptoms but I have never had an engine run with the distributor 180 out. In my experience it's always popped and choked and tried to start but never would run.
 
Garrett Ellison said:
Mark your balancer from tdc line out to 60 degrees or buy a timing tape. I am suspicious of cross firing or plug wires swapped. I seen you mentioned Mopar coil? is it a stock type? I would try an e core coil or a high performance coil. Is the mechanical advance causing it to over advance when you are revving it up? Here is a link to the \6 site with in depth hei installation, it may be worth checking out if you've not seen it before. HEI Electronic Ignition Retrofit How-To - Slant Six Forum
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With the help of @TrailBeast this is ignition system I am running.
 
I only say this because some people think going ATDC is advancing when you actually retarding. I read this in a Mopar timing article below.

The point of reference is 0 (Top Dead Center {TDC}). Timing is measured After Top Dead Center (ATDC) or Before Top Dead Center (BTDC). The 0 reference means the number 1 cylinder piston is on the compression stroke at the maximum point of travel before beginning to move away from the head on its power stroke. All engines include a timing mark on the vibration damper and a gauge usually attached to the timing gear cover. The gauge usually measures from 0 to about 12 Before Top Dead Center (BTDC). BTDC is also called advanced timing because firing occurs before the crankshaft reaches the 0 point in rotation. ATDC is called retarded timing because firing occurs after the crankshaft reaches the 0 point in rotation.
 
What do the plugs look like? Getting fuel?
Get it running and turn distributor slowly one way, if engine starts to die turn other direction.( with vac advance unhooked and hose plugged)
Finding a spot where rpms rise and where you can adjust idle down get to run at lowest rpm without dieing.
Then check for timing marks go from there.

Ive had brand new HEI distributors/components faulty out of box.
Throw different carb and ignition on,(If need be) to continue troubleshoot problem.
 
IMO, it sounds to me like you’re at the point where it’s time to start swapping parts, especially since it would appear the distributor and module aren’t “known good” parts.
“New” doesn’t really mean anything....... other than you don’t know if it’s good or not.
There seems to be a lot of junk ignition stuff out there.

Any friends nearby with an old points distributor laying around you could borrow?

I guess we’re all assuming the reluctor air gap is correct.
 
mycuda said:
What do the plugs look like? Getting fuel?
Get it running and turn distributor slowly one way, if engine starts to die turn other direction.( with vac advance unhooked and hose plugged)
Finding a spot where rpms rise and where you can adjust idle down get to run at lowest rpm without dieing.
Then check for timing marks go from there.

Ive had brand new HEI distributors/components faulty out of box.
Throw different carb and ignition on,(If need be) to continue troubleshoot problem.
Click to expand...

I've actually had it running in a manner that "by ear" sounded correct. But when I adjusted the idle and looked for the timing mark- there was nothing to see.

I have no access to spare parts to swap in and out. I wish I did because I would have start moving things around.

Thank you.
 
PRH said:
IMO, it sounds to me like you’re at the point where it’s time to start swapping parts, especially since it would appear the distributor and module aren’t “known good” parts.
“New” doesn’t really mean anything....... other than you don’t know if it’s good or not.
There seems to be a lot of junk ignition stuff out there.

Any friends nearby with an old points distributor laying around you could borrow?

I guess we’re all assuming the reluctor air gap is correct.
Click to expand...

I did check and set the gap to .008

Sadly, this is my first MOPAR build and all the car people I know are Chevy people. I feel like I have a MOPAR curse on me. I have a 69 Camaro, that I built and a 54 Ford that I wrench on and I have never had such a frustrating/confusing problem with either of those vehicles. I know the ignition is basically the same in theory but this is truly killing me.

The worst part is this is a father/son project, my son saved up and bought this himself. It is a 1970 Dart (with a 72 front clip) that was a /6 manual drum brake car with a 7 1/4 rear SBP. We bought a donor car, a 1974 Dart SE and swapped the K member with sway bar, rebuilt the front end, power disc brakes, 8 1/4 rear, pulled the dash and engine harnesses and went through them and had the engine rebuilt adding some little items like the Edlebrock intake and carb. And I can't get this! I feel pressure like I'm letting him down.........it's the crazies thing. If you would have asked me about setting the timing on this, I would have said "no problem!" Now I know better.

Thank you
 
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AJ/FormS said:
Sometimes I just ignore the light, and reach in there and crank the D to whatever makes it run normal. Then figure who's lying to me.
Once it is idling normally:I hook up the light, and just rev it up slowly.
If it starts running stoopid and the timing light goes crazy,then; there is an excellent chance that the pick-up polarity is backwards.
But if it starts running stoopid without spark scatter, then the rotor or reluctor phasing is probably off. Or possibly the coil polarity is backwards.
But if it takes the revs OK, then probably the the timing index marks are off.
The above assumes the cam-timing is at least close and that ALL the valves are actually fully closing, and that the carb is not fubarred.
An easy check as to closing exhaust valves is to put your palm over the tailpipe during cranking; if it sucks your hand onto the pipe, you have a problem.
You can't really do that same test on a 4bbl, but if you are getting multiple backfires thru the carb with attending flames, there is a good chance the intakes are not closing. Lean missfires may be accompanied by flames, but sound like somebody fired a wet diaper on the concrete floor, or like somebody got punched in the diaphragm. Whereas when the already on fire fuel charge, pops back thru the carb, this is a more serious POW! Peak cylinder pressure is supposed to occur at about 15* ATDC, but the fire was begun at perhaps 10* before. So there is a 25* window there, that if one or more intakes is not closing 100% there will be fire in the plenum, and the pressure in the cylinder is gonna try and blast it backwards thru the venturi, totally destroying the vacuum signal, and with that the engine momentarily quits running. If just one valve is doing this, and the rpm is high enough, it might recover.If it stalls, there will be smoke in the intake and wafting up thru the carb. You can catch the pressure spike on a vacuum gauge.
No matter what, do NOT put your face over the venturis if the crank is turning; If/when you see the fireball coming, you will jerk back and inhale sharply. Your head will stop when it hits the underside of the hood, and you will suck that flame in baaaaaaad. And hopefully the stink of burning nose hairs,will be the only lasting ill effect. Well that and your wife is gonna laugh at you for two weeks until your eyebrows grow out. Not having nose hairs to deal with regularly tho,is not a bad thing.
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Hey AJ, sounds like maybe a little experience speaking? I personally know that Type C fire foam is ugly to breathe in under hood as well.
 
It doesn't what brand or engine, if parts are bad there bad! Track down some known good ignition parts first.
 
I was wanting to check to make sure that you didn't spin the reluctor with the ignition off while it is connected to the HEI module. I can't remember the exact condition that causes it but they are easy to zap and cause similar problems. Definitely try another timing light!
 
Have seen gm modules do this before. But rarely with new ones.
Never know, it does happen.
New parts create a diagnostic nightmare.
 
As mentioned,known good parts is your best diagnostic tool.
 
I would check TDC with a piston stop and degree wheel with left hand valve cover off to see what valves are doing on #1 cylinder. Then go through entire rotation (with piston stop out of course) and see if any valves are sticking open.
 
Timing is off, might be the chain....I really hate to say this, BUT setting timing is really easy to do, if the chain is set correct...NOT rocket science...
 
4spdragtop said:
10-4, but has it ran normal since the rebuild?
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No, not been able to get it to run properly since build. Strongly suspicious of several things. It just occurred to me that he desperately needs to go ahead, pull the plugs, and run a proper compression check before proceeding any farther. I have been helping garage today that’s been working on my folks 06 Tacoma that had the frame changed in ‘16 by the dealer and came backbone without four wheel drive. Two new actuators and a new four wheel drive module and and goes into four high or four low but will not come back out of either. Can take a power probe to actuators once unplug them and put back in two wheel. Data site had 12 page book with three pages of schematics on how four wheel drive system operates. Almost brain fried. Anyone out there a Tieyotur certified mechanic?
 
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Run a proper compression check before proceeding any further.
 
Garrett Ellison said:
No, not been able to get it to run properly since build. Strongly suspicious of several things. It just occurred to me that he desperately needs to go ahead, pull the plugs, and run a proper compression check before proceeding any farther. I have been helping garage today that’s been working on my folks 06 Tacoma that had the frame changed in ‘16 by the dealer and came backbone without four wheel drive. Two new actuators and a new four wheel drive module and and goes into four high or four low but will not come back out of either. Can take a power probe to actuators once unplug them and put back in two wheel. Data site had 12 page book with three pages of schematics on how four wheel drive system operates. Almost brain fried. Anyone out there a Tieyotur certified mechanic?
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Start a new thread?
Scan tool should give you some actuator tests,in a colorado it locks out 4wd if there is a dtc.
Also, iffn its electrical you should have trouble code(s)
 
This is not insulting...everyone here is trying to help you. It has been suggested several times to check with a piston stop to get true TDC. Get an old sparkplug and make one in 10 minutes. That will tell you with 100% certainty if the timing chain and balancer is correct. If it doesn't match your "new" balancer, either the balancer is wrong or your chain is on wrong. (next step added below) If it is correct pull the cap and make sure it is pointing to #1 wire/tower and #1 is drivers side. LH front. When a chain goes on dot to dot that is #6 firing not #1.
Then you need to check the valves to make sure when TDC they are closed. Just to make sure that was clear.
 
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