Restoring a 65 Barracuda

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pbiggs

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I am in the midst of a complete restoration on my 1965 Barracuda Formula S. I feel sure anyone who works on vintage cars will agree that searching/researching solutions for parts and services can be a major consumer of time and effort.

I have used threads posted in FABO in the past for answers and ideas, so I’m passing along a couple of things I have learned.


ORIGINAL RADIO

The radio wasn’t working when pulled and another radio I purchased on ebay worked long enough for a bench test then quit. Fellow FABO member cudajim offered to have a look at them and said if he couldn’t fix them there would be no charge for his service. If they turn out to be repairable then the repair charges would be very reasonable and he would notify me before making the repairs.

It seems most radio repair businesses want to “restore “ the radio and thus charge $200 or more for a basic AM radio. Well, there are other options.

Both radios were mailed and within a few days the repairs were done at a very reasonable price. I am one satisfied radio owner. Thanks Jim
(note: Jim fixed both of my radios for less than half of the cost to “restore” one radio) Thanks Jim for solving this problem.



SPEEDOMETER GEAR

I put a few road miles on the car before beginning the restoration and the speedometer was working fine with no strange noises or behavior. However, when I removed the gear from the transmission, I found the nylon teeth badly worn and damaged. The speedometer cable housing had a small kink and caused some binding on the cable itself. I suppose the excessive wear and damage on the gear came from the cable not rotating freely.

For the 4 speed transmission and 3:23 rear, my parts book listed part number 2204360 for a gear with 21 teeth. After several failed attempts to locate an NOS or good used one via my usual internet and other source sites, I began to worry about finding one. (note: in 1966 Chrysler changed the speedometer gear to a different design and some of these gears are reproduced, but alas not 1965 and prior)

Northwest Transmission Parts in Winchester, OH (937-442-2811) can cut new nylon gears to order. I gave them the application and factory part number and they said, “No problem, we can do it”. Northwest also had the o-ring and small seal that fits the inside the housing. Price for the gear, seal, o-ring and shipping was about $65.00.

One glitch- Northwest reproduced a beautiful gear, unfortunately they reversed the gear angles. When I called to report the problem, they were very accommodating and ask me to return the gear and a new one would be cut. For good measure, I sent my old gear as a sample and a new correct gear was returned which fits prefect.
Problem solved (note: allow 3-5 weeks to get a new gear cut)

INNER FENDER SPLASH SHIELD SEALS

It seems the rubber inner fender splash shields are readily available for most mopars from various vendors. I found the exception to be early A body cars such as my 65 Barracuda. YearOne doesn’t list the shield seals and when I called Layson’s, they told me none were reproduced for the 65 A-body. Quoting the salesman, “If they were available, we’d have them.”
Assuming no shields seals were available, I began searching for the materials to make a set. Restoration Specialties and Supply in Windber, PA (814-467-9842) has a large selection of rubber moldings, seals and gaskets for all makes and models of cars and trucks. The great news is, their online catalog
http://www.restorationspecialties.com/splash shield seals.htm lists all the inner fender splash shield seals for a 1965 Barracuda. I ordered the seals and they snapped right in place…good as new.

Below is a picture of the car I'm restoring taken before the restoration began. I will post more pictures later.


If FABO members find this type of restoration information useful, I am, in the future, willing to pass along my experiences with other problems and solutions for:

Positive battery cable
273 HP valve covers
Plastic rechroming
Rubber bumper kits
 

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Nice car! I'm partial to the early cudas, I doing a resto on mine as I type. What are your plans for the car? Good luck and I'll be watching for your progress.
Jim
 
there is a very close window lock strip available from a Chevy truck, its posted somewhere.
 
66CudaJim said:
Nice car! I'm partial to the early cudas, I doing a resto on mine as I type. What are your plans for the car? Good luck and I'll be watching for your progress.
Jim
Click to expand...
My plans are to drive it occasionally. I am not a "show" person, so no judging in the future.
I have two early Chargers, so the Barracuda will share our driving times.
Thanks for responding,
Pat
 
My son decided to go classic for his 1st car.... Here is what we dragged home in July.... This is going to be a low budget, drive it like I stole it when he lets me have the keys kinda build.... As of tonight, floors are done, dash is removed. Going to start the inner fender prep next weekend...

I'm with ya on your resto!
 

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Your son is happy....look at the smile and I know that must make you happy too.
Good luck
 
POSITIVE BATTERY CABLE

Getting the positive battery cable issue resolved was very time consuming and many lessons have been learned. Reproduction cables can be found for a lot of cars, but they are not readily available from most vendors for a 1965 Barracuda.
After two years of searching, I found one source to be a company on eBay that sells the positive and ground cable as a pair for around $170 and $14.00 shipping (or $190 plus shipping if you want cables with square terminals.) Reading the description convinced me the show quality cables were correct for 64-66 A body cars with 273 engine and “you will not be disappointed” with this set” seemed to cover what I was looking for. The price seemed high to me when later model mopar cables sets on eBay were selling for $50-100, but with no other choices available, my PayPal account took the $184 hit.

When the cables arrived, while initially impressed with the look of quality, I was disappointed by the absence of the protective insulating cover (black woven material) found on remains of my original positive cable. I am not a purist and I don’t show my cars, so I accepted these supposedly show quality correct cables with a grumble and set them aside for almost two months until I was ready to install them.

A little background information may be helpful at this point. Over the past 20 years, I have restored 3 early model Chargers (still own and drive a 66 and 67) and a 1980 Dodge pickup. Returning a vintage Dodge or Plymouth to its original look and performance is a passion, not a vocation for me. I don’t require nor insist on perfect NOS date coded restoration parts, but I strive to use the correct parts from the original manufacturer if possible. I learned long ago to own at least one parts car of the same make, model and year before beginning the restoration for reference as well as parts. The parts car pays for itself many times over. A copy of the original parts book is imperative.

Restoring this 65 Barracuda, my first A-body restoration, has been the most challenging yet rewarding thus far. I first saw the car in a series of pictures on an individual’s webpage. There was no description, but the 30 plus pictures told a story that interested me. Oh sure, the car looked like death warmed over, but it’s Colorado location meant less body rust and those of us living in Virginia know about body rust.

It was the originality and options the pictures showed that set the wheels in motion to buy this car. It was a Formula S, 4 speed, factory A/C, bumper guards, wood wheel and optional silver paint Barracuda. The fender tag and most of the buildsheet was intact.

Now, back to the battery cable……the old cable was routed from the starter forward to the front (radiator side) of the shock tower and up to the battery. The repo cable, because of the length and location of wrapping could only be routed behind (firewall side) the shock tower and then to the battery. I debated with myself and was almost convinced to just leave like that until I referenced my other 3 Barracudas. (now I own a 66 to restore with it’s parts car and the 65 parts car) All 3, plus looking at pictures of other cars showed the cable routing in front of the shock tower, not behind it. My “show quality - will not be disappointed cable” didn’t look right nor fit correctly and too expensive not to. But there seemed no other option.

Ah.. but it turns out there is another option and a much better one at that. M & H Electric Fabricators, Inc in Santa Fe Springs, CA can reproduce a correct positive battery cable for your car.
The web address: (www.wiringharness.com) But you won’t have much success navigating M &H’s web page for battery cables. Most inquires throw you back to Year One as M & H’s exclusive and only distributor. Yet you cannot find a 65 Barracuda positive battery cable listed by Year One.

I finally gave up on the web page and called them (562) 926-9552) and talked to Robert Wallace, one of the most knowledgeable humans on the subject of automotive wiring. I gave him the Chrysler part number as found in my 65 parts book (2587178). ( note: part number 2587178 was stamped on the remains of my original cable as well) He confirmed they could build the cable to specifications derived from original factory technical drawings and the cable was set-up in their system as part number 35230. The cable would have the correct woven insulation on the starter end as the original.

Things get a little strange at this point. I no longer automatically assume anything, especially when it comes to restoration parts or information. So…I ask Robert for wire lengths at different points and positions on the cable he was ready to build for me. I was stunned when the dimensions did not match the remains of my old original cable. But they did match the “show quality-will not be disappointed” cable perfectly.

Robert is a very patient and dedicate worker who I think strives on problem solving.
Rather than giving up with “I can’t help you anymore”, he listened patiently as I explained the cable he wanted to make did not match my old one. He said Chrysler was notorious for changing, at any time, the specifications, vendors and designs of parts for numerous safety or cosmetic reasons. He also said if I could provide an original undamaged battery cable to use as a pattern, they might be able to make one.

My 66 parts cars had an original, beautifully preserved positive battery cable with part number 2661913 clearly stamped on it. Problem was, M&H had no record or spec sheet for that number, the part number is not found in any parts book and an Internet search produced no results. (part number 2587819 is listed in my 1966 parts book for a positive cable)

In the end, I sent my 2661913 cable to M&H, they reproduced it and we worked out a deal where I gave them the cable to keep for future reference. So if you happen to want a nicely reproduced positive battery cable for your 64-66 A body, call Robert Wallace at M&H (562-926-9552) and request cable 2661913 using print 35225 (their in house spec sheet number). It’ll cost about $100.00 plus shipping and you buy it directly from M&H. YearOne is M&H’s exclusive distributor for wiring kits, but not battery cables.

In the first picture below, you can compare my original cable with the "you will not be disappointed" cable. Very different
Second picture compares my old original cable with the new one from M&H. Nice match
Third picture shows the M&H cable routed in front of the shock tower and near the battery.

Note: the “will not be disappointed cable” was returned to the seller. My refund was minus $35.00 for PayPal and ebay fees. (excessive I thought) and I paid shipping going and coming. In the end, this mistake added about $70.00 to the restoration cost.
 

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Thanks for the info on battery cables. I have a 66 26K mile survivor that needs cables, so I appreciate that you shared your info.
 
BLUE INTERIOR WOES

My Barracuda has paint code N (Barracuda Silver) with blue interior (code B). Be prepared to pay a lot more to restore the blue interior. A couple of examples:
(1) Dash pad….mine needed restoring. In hindsight, I believe I chose the most expensive option. Just Dashes does good, very good work, but cheap they’re not. The price to restore the pad was $500, but they charged an extra $100 to match the original blue color. With a $65 return freight charge, my wallet took a $665 hit for the dash pad. The alternative might have been to buy a good used one and paint it blue using a spray can of vinyl paint. The problem is finding a good used pad without cracks or breaks, but with patience, they can be found.
(2) The headliner……blue headliners are readily available from several vendors for under $100, but they don’t match the correct factory shade of blue. (which is almost a light metallic blue) To get the correct color, I had to order a correct color headliner from Original Auto Interiors (www.originalauto.com) and the price was $285 plus shipping.
(3) While the correct blue color seat covers and carpet can found at Legendary, the blue reproduction door panels are unavailable.
(4) The color problem goes away if you have a black, red or white interior.


273 HP VALVE COVERS

I sent my black wrinkled painted finned aluminum covers to Phoenix Specialty Coatings (731-613-9192) or http://PhoenixSpecialtyCoating.com for restoration. I was very satisfied with the quality of work and the excellent service they offered. I will be a return customer. Thanks for the great job.

PLASTIC RECHROMING OF DASH PARTS

I hesitantly chose AutoInstruments in Virginia as the place to send my dash bezels and arm rest bases for plastic rechroming. I say hesitantly chose because of a less than satisfactory experience I had with them about 3 years ago with a 67 Charger dash cluster bezel. Somehow during reinstallation of the lens, they managed to crack two of the very hard to find lens and returned the bezel to me with the lens broken. In the end, AutoInstruments purchased replacements lens and the job was finally finished at no extra cost to me, but 6 months had elapsed between the time I sent them and got them back ready to install.

When it came time to have the dash bezels and arm rest bases rechromed for my 65 Barracuda, I called AutoInstruments and spoke with the owner about my past experience. He assured me the new shop manager would have the job done on time and with a high standard of work quality. I mailed the pieces and waited to see how things would go this time.

I got the pieces back within the time span promised and the quality of work looked excellent. Two months later when reassembling the instrument cluster and bezel, I discovered AutoInstruments had reversed the position of the metal lens retainers for the speedometer and engine gauges. At my expense, I sent the bezel back with an explanation of what was wrong and within a week I had them back home. Unfortunately they didn’t get it right this time either, because both metal retainers had been glued to the engine gauge lens. Trying to remain cool, I sent a terse note and the bezel back a second time with another instrument bezel to use as a guide. Three weeks later, I finally got the bezel back and it was correct.

I think quality control is an issue that needs addressing. Perhaps my most recent experience may have been a little less troubling had an apology been offered or better yet a coupon with a little off my next order, but neither was offered.

AutoInstruments (276-647-5550 or www.autoinstruments.com
 
pbiggs said:
POSITIVE BATTERY CABLE

Ah.. but it turns out there is another option and a much better one at that. M & H Electric Fabricators, Inc in Santa Fe Springs, CA can reproduce a correct positive battery cable for your car.
The web address: (www.wiringharness.com) But you won’t have much success navigating M &H’s web page for battery cables. Most inquires throw you back to Year One as M & H’s exclusive and only distributor. Yet you cannot find a 65 Barracuda positive battery cable listed by Year One.
....
In the end, I sent my 2661913 cable to M&H, they reproduced it and we worked out a deal where I gave them the cable to keep for future reference. So if you happen to want a nicely reproduced positive battery cable for your 64-66 A body, call Robert Wallace at M&H (562-926-9552) and request cable 2661913 using print 35225 (their in house spec sheet number). It’ll cost about $100.00 plus shipping and you buy it directly from M&H. YearOne is M&H’s exclusive distributor for wiring kits, but not battery cables.
....
Note: the “will not be disappointed cable” was returned to the seller. My refund was minus $35.00 for PayPal and ebay fees. (excessive I thought) and I paid shipping going and coming. In the end, this mistake added about $70.00 to the restoration cost.
Click to expand...


The cable in the second picture looks just like the cable on my 1965 Dart. I'll definitely be calling them on Monday to see if they can sell me that cable. Thanks for persisting to get the right cable and also for posting so others can benefit.
 
thank you for being so thorough, the info & links you have posted will help others, Lawrence
 
This is a GREAT thread! Great info & excellent advice. I now know where to get my battery cable.
 
Thanks for the comments on the 65 restoration. It is now on the road with 2K miles of shake down. I will post an update and more info soon.
Thanks, Pat
 
Pat
Do you have any pictures of those splash seals? Link above is not valid anymore. I have a 62 Lancer and I need some. Any help is appreciated! Stan
 
very nice info and links peices should fit 64-65 mabee to 66 barracuda/valiant -dart

i also luv 64-65 barracuda"s and keep a parts car and a collection of connections there getting hard ro get parts for add me to your list we may need each others help findind a peice 1 day thanx for the write up and thanx F.A.B.O.
 
Hyper_pak said:
Pat
Do you have any pictures of those splash seals? Link above is not valid anymore. I have a 62 Lancer and I need some. Any help is appreciated! Stan
Click to expand...

The Restoration Specialists homepage is :

http://www.restorationspecialties.com/

I just tried the address and it works fine. You will have to go to the catalog/shop on line link to get to the splash shields.
Sorry, I don't have any pictures of the shields

Pat
 
This is a continuation of my restoration thread started earlier in the year. A lot has happen since then so I finally have written an update. The engine is next.

It's been 4 years since I started the restoration of my 1965 Barracuda Formula S car. This was my first A-body resto and it proved challenging to say the least. A significant number of my challenges were caused by an array of incorrect restoration parts collected by the person I bought the car from. After this person had collected parts for 3 years, he decided the restoration was more than he could handle and put the car up for sale as a package of car and parts. Here is a lesson I learned: when a seller says, "I have all the parts to complete the restoration", don't believe it.

In addition to the Formula S package, the car was optioned with a 4 speed transmission, power steering, factory A/C, bumper guards, backup lights, radio, remote outside mirror, wood grain steering wheel and Barracuda silver buffed paint.

The car spent all of it’s life in the west which means rust was minimal. However, it appears the CO owner of the car back in the 70’s and early 80’s lived on a dirt road and had several driving mishaps that resulted in body damage to the front end sheet metal. Quality of the repair work was a joke, the car was repainted in an awful blue-green color and the beatings continued. Fortunately for me the sills, engine compartment, door jams and inside trunk areas were not painted. By the time I bought the car, the front splash shield was junk, driver side fender was crumpled, hood was twisted and somehow they managed to rip a 3 foot long gash in the floor board.

But, like so many of us, I “just had to have this car” because of the options and color. My obsession to own it should have been tempered with more caution, more questions and a lot less trust in the seller’s description. Oh… 20/20 hindsight. President Regan said this about the Russians back in the mid eighties…” I believe what they say as long as I can verify it”. Unfortunately in my case, the car was 600 miles away, so verification was via pictures, phone calls and emails. You don’t really know what you’ve got until the restoration process begins. I know now I paid way too much for what I got…my obsession was expensive, but I got what I wanted. My wife was supportive, so I have no complaints.

There were a couple of other tidbits about the car that fed my “buy this car” obsession. Somehow after 45 years, the car retained its original engine, transmission, rear end, radiator, distributor, carburetor, radio, fender tag, and 75% of the build sheet. I knew this before agreeing to purchase the car. The western PO (previous owner) was not a kind and gentle steward for this car, as he/she made no modifications to the car. (Uh ..well other than installing speakers in the rear trunk divider and mounting a CB antenna in roof . When I got the car, the interior and exterior looked like death warmed over from sitting many years outside in the CO sunshine.

I’m sure a lot of readers have car restoration experiences similar to mine. While I don’t consider my experiences unique or out of the ordinary to other restoration projects, this 65 Barracuda’s four year long restoration have been a very unique learning experience for me. Prior to this, I had never completely disassembled all the systems of a car ( ie. engine, rear, transmission, dash, A/C, wiring, interior, etc.) and then reassembled all the systems to work collectively once again.

I found problem solving to be a major component of time and effort. Trying to figure out the correct parts that were missing or incorrect and then obtaining suitable replacements would have been much more difficult, if not impossible, without the internet and especially online forums such as FABO. I am grateful for the extensive knowledge FABO members have tucked away and more importantly, their willingness to share what they know. I am proud to be a FABO member and feel compelled to return the favor by sharing what I have learned from my restoration.

The engine is next
 

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Thanks for your detailed information. I never imagined that there was a place that would cut new speedo gears.
I'll be watching this thread for help on my '65.
 
Thank you for taking the time Pat for the pictures and detailed information. Contacted M&H and since I'm missing the negative battery cable from the car I was wondering if you could take a couple of pictures of your 66 engine bay since it's a survivor. Do you know if the negative cable was 23"/4 gage wire of 28"/6 gage wire. They show both listed for a 66 Barracuda and I'm figuring one is for a the a 6 and the other for an 8 cylinder, but they don't know. I'm going to order the positive battery cable but figure I would do both at the same time. I have a 273 HiPo/automatic

Thanks again for the info,

Rod

Thanks,

Rod
 
Pat! This was awesome info. I have been searching for factory positive cable for years but no luck. With your help I might solve it! My positive cable is black and I want it stamped too! My factory cable has a stamped partnumber into it.
 
Well written.

Thanks for taking the time to help others!
 
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