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Now I know how to set up my valve grinder to do my own, thanks
Is that the same place that Schneider cams uses? If so, that guy does really nice work. And he uses Diamond abrasives to grind the lifters.
I would re use them if they look good and have a convex face with no abnormal wear or scratches. This of course is taking for granted that the cam is also good and you do not have heavy duty valve springs in the heads. If you are ever in doubt, replace them to be on the safe side. I have run used lifters on a used cam mix and match several times in the past with no issues. Take everyone's advice on here and draw your own conclusions from all of it as a whole.......
Every time I see one of these threads, I say to myself " Oh My " how did I get away with using wheel bearing grease to break in cams back in the late seventies. lol Some of the stuff we did back then I would still do if I really had to. Money has changed that now though, not so much of right or wrong, because I have my way of doing things. and if it works don't break it.
UTG would do it.....
After watching and thinking about what he was doing, are his flat, or is his stone ground concave to get the convex face? Or is the lifter cut at an angle (less than 90 degrees to stone)? one thing, an old used lifter is 50 times better than the junk of today. Maybe the new ones are ground wrong, the quicky cheap way.
If y Let’s think about how the lifters wear in to the cam for a moment. The lifter bore is slightly off from the center of the cam lob all machined to a manufacturing tolerance and the cam lob has a slight skew to the surface that the lifter rides on all machined to a manufacturing tolerance and the lifter face has a rounded profile to its face machined to a manufacturing tolerance. So if all parts and mating faces are all in tolerance and by definition are then interchangeable when new. What in the process of an engine being ran would cause one lobe or lifter face to wear in much differently from any other? They all get the same lube oil, they would all see the same useage cycle, heat - cold starts, low and high rpm cycles, spring pressures would all be the same. So within reason I would expect parts like lifters that are interchangeable when new to also be interchangeable after use. After high mileage after many cycles mating parts may get a specific wear pattern. But in normal medium or early life I would expect them to be interchangeable.
Was those lifters run on that cam. If so you need 8 new lifters and breakin lube them. Basically breakin cam procedure again.
I disagree wholeheartedly. When breaking in a new cam and lifters there are microscopic wear patterns created between the cam lobe and lifter face. If you put the lifters on another lobe the breakin has to happen all over again, but you have slight surface irregularities that may decide they are not compatible. Exit stage left for cam, lifter and possibly bearings. This then requires complete overhaul of the engine. Much less trouble to be safe and replace 8 lifters now.
Many years ago I bought a used cam out of a 5 gallon bucket full of used cams - The seller picked 16 lifters out of a big Maxwell House coffee can and threw them in (I think I paid $20.00 or $25.00 for the lot). I put the cam and the random lifters in a 383 and drove it maybe 20,000 miles before I sold it still running fine. Does my experience mean that keeping lifters on their original lobe isn't at all important - probably not - but it is a real world example of the fact that it isn't certain doom for your engine if you inadvertently swap a couple. YMMV
I've had cams that went from one engine to another and kept the lifters in order. Been pretty successful most of the time and then there were a few times I was short on funds to do it the way most people insist it should be done and used a plate of glass and some very fine grade wet/dry sand paper with oil and surfaced my own old tappets, it takes time but when you don't have money you have time. The only time I ever had an issue with a cam and tappet failure I managed to hang on to was the solid tappet Crane that went back in the block when the gear bolt cam loose to the point it went from one lobe to the one in front of it. and bent ALL of the exhaust valves. Then there was the time I simply swapped a set of valve springs into an old AMC because the factory springs wouldn't hold the valves close after oil pressure came up. I used a set of old small block MOPAR springs in the AMC, it was a few months later one tappet went all the way through the bottom and dumped oil, Obviously that cam was done for. The engine started backfiring and blowing vacuum hoses off at every port. The most important point with flat tappets is having ZDDP in the oil at all times ! Even after break in. Removal of ZDDP is the main reason older engines are so rare anymore. Of course once break in is over as in several thousand miles cam failure is far less likely to be an issue, but still a possiblity.
Sometimes shit works out. With stock valve springs the loads may allow it to work out. IMHO though the cost of new lifters is cheap insurance.
Dude, I was using a used $25.00 cam bought out of a 5 gallon bucket - that isn't the action of a guy with money for new anything.
Big thing there on swapping a cam between engines was you kept the lifters with the lobe they had been on. No cam breakin required. You are correct that flat tappets require ZDDP or Oil Extreme oil. Not sure what it uses but David Vizard recommends it, and he is a pretty fart smeller.
I got that. Sometimes things work out OK and sometimes not so well. I am happy that worked for you. Low tension valve springs help with that as the pounds force on the cam/lifter interface is less. Obviously HP springs was not in the cards.
All the folks saying "NO" are correct. However try it and let us know, if on a deserted island what would you do...? Sometimes it good to stray from the text book... use a high zinc oil additive just for peace of mind...
eh what could possibly happen... why don't someone try it out on a 318 make a YT video about it...with the cheap Chinese lifters out there using used american made ones might be the way of the future...we wont know untill someone tries it and puts the info out there...people will be selling used lifters on here for $150 plus shipping mark my words LOL! what would uncle tony do? cross thread points!
Put them in, mark all the pushrods. Remove spark plugs and crank it over while watching all of the pushrods. If they all rotate you should be fine. Normally I would say buy new but these days your more likely to have less problems re-using those old ones rather than installing junk new ones. The last couple sets I have done I picked up NOS lifters. Bought all I could find which ended up being about 3 sets. I use ZDDP with all my oil changes, not just for break in. For break in's I dump in two bottles.
Must have a radius dresser for the wheel to get the 50" radius, and maybe the lifter comes in at a 1 degree angle? Be nice to know the whole story. I could do them on my lathe with the tool post grinder if needed. But I think I'd send them to Rocker Arms Unlimited before I go through the hassle of setting the machine up.
Well one thing to think about that blows the ‘groove’ theory out of the water. The cam turns on one axis the lifter spins-slide on another, two opposite motions. They’re not like gears that turn precisely with each other, there some sliding which makes a pattern impossible. With a thin film of oil between them. No oil= metal to metal both will wear out FAST. Now a crank turning can make corresponding marks in the bearing and crank, same axis. Pressure forces the oil off of the surfaces so the excess spring pressures could very well be the culprit.
Facing a lifter on a glass plate is the wrong way to do it (if there is a right way?). You ideally want a convex lifter face (bowing out) so when you place two lifters face to face, you can rock them a little. The radius the lifters are ground on is like 52" and the cam lobe has the same matching rake to it so the lifter is pretty well matched to the lobe and is forced to turn whenever the cam rolls on it. This is how the lifters last so long, they have to rotate (one vid shows you to mark the edge of the lifter with white out and watch for it to turn on cranking. If its not turning shut it down and find out why.). sometimes on a used lifter you'll see the wear pattern as a ring around an almost untouched center. you have to look at your lifter when its sitting on the lobe to see where the pattern is. If its flat (or in my slants case, concave!) reface to convex or try another lifter. So many books show you to place 2 lifters face to face and see light. That grinder rotates the lifter at a very slight angle to the stone and creates a peak unless the ston e is cast with a slight concave face to get your radius. It is a specialized machine in that video. $25 cam and lifters? Go for it! BTDT
i placed each lifter in the bores without the intake or rocker n pushrods , cranked the engine without sparkplugs , by the 3-4 rotation each lifter would fill with oil then stop turning it over let them stand to find which one stayed pumped up . more all fell . hylift johnson lifters rep said that they needed to seat in the pistons seal on the its bore within the lifter . so you should just run them and that clattering lifters will stop after some time . i said what kind of bs is that , so its the lifter companies issue . but here i'm trying to tell the customer that spent 7k on his 340 driver , that clatter on start up is normal , lol . so there no reason to think quality of there machining is at issue , lol . i've got 20 year old lifters that never clattered once in their life . but this new stuff doesn't hold a candle to usa made stuff .
You can argue what's correct and what's not till the cows come home, the FACT is, LOTS and LOTS of people have put random lifters on random lobes for DECADES and never had an issue.
This is one of those " OH MY " moments.