moparlee
64 Valiant
.....for the headlight rings. They are real nice. I think they are little expensive, but..........Anyways thanks again.
Rick @ Layson's........thanks...
- Thread starter moparlee
- Start date
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6469MOPAR
JACKSON, NJ
Looks great , how do you like your headlights
slantsixdan
=..=
Dartnut
Don't hate me because i'm beautiful
71 Duster 440
Quarter Life Crisis
Rick is a great guy. He always goes above and beyond. Those are some nice pieces too!
Nice headlight rings. I had mine redone in 1998 (before you could find repros) by one the companies that advertized in Hemmings about restoring/reanodizing pot metal, etc. They did a terrific job on a set of squished cores I bought (mine weren't even good for cores).
I gotta get me some tail light lenses from Laysons though!
I gotta get me some tail light lenses from Laysons though!
moparlee
64 Valiant
I bought those years ago. Which part is bad the bulb or the fake headlight? I wasn't after blue either.....explain further would you? I don't mind replacing them down the road, I'm justing interested in getting her back on the road in this week if I'm lucky. The blue might by the reflection of the car?????
I also did the relay kit also, back in the day.
slantsixdan
=..=
Both. Putting a real bulb in these headlamps won't make them safe.
Nope, it's a blue bulb -- take a close look.
The only sealed beams worth using (and in fact, the only cheap 7" round headlamps worth buying) are [ame=http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000H29WN2]these GE Night Hawk H6024NH[/ame] items. They're still sealed beams; you still throw them away when they burn out, but at least they contain decently powerful burners and reasonably new optics made on tooling that isn't worn out and decrepit; none of that can be said of any of the sealed beams from Sylvania or Wagner, or any of the non-Night Hawk GE units.
If you're seeking upgraded headlamp performance and/or appearance, see the link in my previous reply in this thread and/or send me a PM if you want more detailed help.
Sharp car, that is!
efriedrich
69 383S
Just promise you will not drive at night and save yourself the rhetoric.
cudaspaz
Well-Known Member
Nice headlight rings.
As soon as I saw the pic I knew it was going to turn into a headlight thread.
As soon as I saw the pic I knew it was going to turn into a headlight thread.
Keith Mopar
Mopar Nut
Man the whole car is looking GREAT!!!
moparlee
64 Valiant
Thanks guys, Right now I'm fighting the brakes. Looks like I have a rear line on the driver side rear that not releasing the caliper. I'm going to see if its that or the caliper this morning.
Garry
Well-Known Member
Moparlee are those repops from layson's or did they refinish them?
If you want really nice 7" round headlights find a set of Hella euro spec ones. They used to put them in Toyota's around here in the late 70's as a option and I found a set at a garage sale years ago. they use H4 bulbs that are readily available and put out a nice pattern that has a kickup at the right side and a flat beam cutoff on the rest of it that puts the light on the road in low beam and is very bright white.
I put a set of 60/100 bulbs in mine and have never had a problem with cops pulling me over for too bright lights or anything what with the HID lights and things cars run these days.
I put a set of 60/100 bulbs in mine and have never had a problem with cops pulling me over for too bright lights or anything what with the HID lights and things cars run these days.
slantsixdan
=..=
You can do much better than the Hella units, which lag badly behind the few other reputable brands in terms of optical efficiency and beam strength and width.
Well back in the day they were about all there was as far as good aftermarket headlights and they still work pretty well and you might be able to find a used set cheap.
I'm sure there are way better setups if you want to spend the money but who still does anything for round headlights these days.
I have a 95 neon I drive and I'd love to go projector or HID some time but for now I just stick with the factory lights and wait till i find a stupid price setup that actually works.
I also have a set of Zelmot lights I found at a swap we put in our 71 Scamp and I like the beam pattern and output of the Hellas better but they are probably the same vintage as the hellas and still way better then factory sealed beams it had.
You might want to list some links to modern setups that can be had as I'd be interested myself to see what else it out there these days and what kind of prices they get.
I'm sure there are way better setups if you want to spend the money but who still does anything for round headlights these days.
I have a 95 neon I drive and I'd love to go projector or HID some time but for now I just stick with the factory lights and wait till i find a stupid price setup that actually works.
I also have a set of Zelmot lights I found at a swap we put in our 71 Scamp and I like the beam pattern and output of the Hellas better but they are probably the same vintage as the hellas and still way better then factory sealed beams it had.
You might want to list some links to modern setups that can be had as I'd be interested myself to see what else it out there these days and what kind of prices they get.
slantsixdan
=..=
No, actually back in the day there were more options -- and better options than there are today -- in aftermarket 7" round headlamps. Carello was better than Hella. Marchal was better. Cibie was better. Of those three, Cibie is the only one you can still buy, and it's still better than Hella.
That car was made a long time before Chrysler "got religion" in 2011 and suddenly started putting good lights on their cars. You can make them a good bit less awful by making sure the lens/reflector units are in brand-new condition (if they need replaced, use only genuine parts; the aftermarket ones are garbage), installing headlamp relays to work around the inadequate original wiring that starves the bulbs, and putting in only [ame=http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00480N16S/]these Philips[/ame] or [ame=http://www.amazon.com/dp/B002UX7I9G]these GE[/ame] bulbs.
There are no projector or HID headlamps worth buying for a Neon -- just headlight-shaped toys from China.
Polish lamps -- not as bad as the Chinese trash and the Indian trash, but still pretty far down the list of lamps worth buying. Currently sold under the "Delta" brand name by a marketing company of that same name in California, often with dumb/illegal blue bulbs.
Well, there are these excellent American-made full-LED headlamps, but they'll set you back about $450 apiece. :shock: Truck-Lite's original LED headlamp was not a good performer, but they're coming out with an all-new one that will likely be much better; I'm waiting for my test units to arrive. The only halogen 7" round headlamps with a window-clear lens (jewel-optic reflector) that's worth messing with is the Harley-Davidson part number 68345-05, made by North American Lighting. The current-production Jeep Wrangler headlamp looks nice (window-clear lens) and fits directly in place of a 7" round sealed beam except you have to change the socket; it's passable but not great; the Jeep guys swap them off in favor of Cibie units.
Cheap replaceable-bulb headlamps aren't worth a tinker's dam. The only 7" round headlamp that is both cheap and good is [ame=http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000H29WN2]the GE Night Hawk H6024NH sealed beam[/ame].
hemitheus
19? Plymouth Scampenstein
If you want some good lamps take the assemblies off of a jeep JK. they bolt right in, however you will need to swap out your pigtails. But they look amazing. i just bought a set. havent installed them yet.
GORGEOUS rings. laysons stuff is top quality... thats why you pay a bit more. Worth it though.
GORGEOUS rings. laysons stuff is top quality... thats why you pay a bit more. Worth it though.
Dan, although the Z beams in my Duster have lost a lot of the silvering on the reflectors, they're still superior anything else out there. I know they've been out of prodution for a long enough time now that the supply has dried up to the point that they seem to be made of unobtainium these days. I also realize that I were to find any they'd most likely have the same problems as mine do. I've searched around on the web looking for resilvering techniques or info on separating the lens from the reflector, and found little worth recording. Ditto on finding someone with the skills and equipment to do it for me.
Do you have any solutions short of replacing them with something else (all inferior in my opinion)?
slantsixdan
=..=
Look nice, work "so so".
slantsixdan
=..=
If there's visible degradation of the reflectors, they're long past dead. Optical degradation of the reflector is grossly advanced well before you can see it with the naked eye; by the time it's progressed far enough to be described as "just a little imperfect" the lamp is dead. Remember, even the most costly, beautiful show chrome is only 67% reflective, not nearly enough for optical purposes. An as-new headlamp reflector is over 99% reflective.
If the lenses aren't pitted all to hell, you can have the reflectors refurbished. Or you can buy a set of the current-production Cibie 7" round H4 lamps, which aren't Z-beams but are still the best ones easily available (there's a better one made by Koito for Toyota, but it's costly and difficult to get).
Well, here y'go:
The first step is to isolate the reflector from all other components. Remove all non-steel parts such as bulb seats and non-reflector components such as bulb shields, etc. The bulb seat is held to the reflector by crimping which can be carefully undone with a small screwdriver after you make scratch marks on the seat and the reflector for later alignment. The bulb shield is sandwiched between the lens and the reflector, so you'll be removing it after you separate the lens from the reflector.
Disassembly of bonded lens-reflector units requires caution. Make a scratch mark on the back of the reflector at the top of the lens so you can identify where the top of the lens goes when you later reassemble the lamps. Place the lamps in a 250°F oven for 30 minutes, then working quickly and carefully with a sharp knife, cut away as much of the white adhesive sealant as you can. Then use a butter knife, screwdriver, and/or other appropriate blunt but narrow edged tool to pry the lens free from the reflector, working progressively around the edge of the reflector to lift it out of the softened adhesive. Work carefully to avoid peeling off the brown base coat from the reflector. It may take several trips back into the oven...when the adhesive cools, it will begin to re-harden. The object is to avoid placing much local stress on the lens, so when it stops moving easily, stop work and put the lens-reflector back into the oven to warm back up. You'll want to remove all the residual adhesive sealant from the reflector and the lens.
Once it's isolated, put the reflector and lens into the dishwasher (bottom rack) and run it with ordinary dishwashing powder (Cascade, Electrosol, etc.) through a normal cycle. This will usually remove most all of the shiny stuff; occasionally some careful wiping or a second run-through is necessary.
Take a close look at the base coat; if it's in perfect shape, not scratched or peeled or blistered, then you're all set; send the reflector to Martin or one of his teammates at Vacu-Coat. Tell him it's an optical reflector, in need of aluminizing and high-heat protective overcoat. If the base coat is at all imperfect, contact him in advance, tell him you have a stamped-steel parabolic headlight reflector with damaged factory base coat, and ask for his recommendation for sending the reflector in (does he want the remains of the basecoat stripped, can he strip it, etc.). Most base coats can be stripped from steel reflectors with lye the easiest and safest form is Easy-Off spray oven cleaner. The original type, not the "fume free". Check the label to make sure it contains lye (Sodium Hydroxide). Wear rubber gloves, give yourself plenty of ventilation, apply the lye in a sink, let it stand for an hour or so, then rinse with hot water. Scrub gently with a plastic "Scotch Brite" pad; repeat if necessary.
If the reflector has rust that has roughened its surface, it is not a feasible candidate for cost-effective refurbishment.
If Vacu-Coat for whatever reason can't put on a new base coat (this is highly unlikely), then the reflector must be copper plated and polished to a high shine. Then, nickel plated and polished to a high shine. Then, send the reflectors to UVIRA in Oregon for aluminum vaporcoating and silica glass overcoat. About 9 years ago, I paid $85 for UVIRA's reflectorisation service on a pair of reflectors about the same size as
yours; the price might have changed.
UVIRA
310 Pleasant Valley Rd
Merlin, OR 97532
tel 541-474-5050
The plating shop is probably going to ask you why you're having the first two steps of a chrome plating job (copper, nickel) done but not the chrome. Chrome is *never* an acceptable reflector material; see above.
Once you've got the refurbished reflector back, Reinstall the bulb seat, crimping as required for a secure fit. Make certain to install the bulb seat in its correct rotative position relative to the reflector (refer to your earlier scratch mark).
Do not use any kind of silicone to attach the lens to the reflector. Use windshield urethane, obtainable from an auto glass service center. It comes in various grades; the thin grade is the easiest but also the messiest to work with. Apply a thin, even bead around the inner lip/rim where the lens and reflector meet. Press the lens -- make sure it's rightside up! -- evenly into the bead of sealant, then apply another bead round the outside of the lens/reflector junction. Smooth/press this outer bead into place with a craft stick or finger (messy either way!) and allow time for the urethane to cure completely.
Install new (thoughtfully-selected) bulbs, reinstall the headlamps, aim them on low beam according to the 'VOL' instructions here, and you're all set.
I think you were really being extra nice here. I had an 08 Jeep JK and installed your Cibie upgrade. I gotta say the OEM headlights SUCKED and I am not alone. That is one of the most popular upgrades to the JK. After I put the Cibies in, I had retina burners. I will be doing it again for my Dart this time even if I have to buy the kit from you a piece at the time. Awesome upgrade.
slantsixdan
=..=
Yup. There's no reason why the '07+ JK headlamp should be as poorly focused as it is. It would not have cost more to engineer and build it to work much better. The priorities were low cost and pretty/shiny appearance and long, warranty-friendly bulb life. Oh yeah, and legal performance.
Too bad the legal requirements leave so much room for lousy headlamps.
Too bad the low cost to Chrysler doesn't translate to low price to buy these lights.
I get what you mean, but for the benefit of those who might not: we are not talking about an uncontrolled spray of bright light here. Just the opposite, in fact, we're talking about a lot of well-focused, well-controlled, properly-directed light. Because of the better focus, they produce less "retina burning" glare than the stock lights.
Thanks kindly, glad you like it. It really shouldn't be as hard as it is to get good 7" round replaceable-bulb headlamps. There are dozens of different rotten ones available, but only a few good ones.
Thanks Dan, your thoughtful and thorough response is gratefully appreciated. I have already archived it for future reference.
Now that I have a plan, it looks like I need to get a couple of the Eurospec Cibies to stand in until I can take the time to remove, disassemble, refurbish, and reinstall the Z beams.
Any chance you're coming to Portland for the swapmeet?
With my 175s blocking the grille mounted park lights, I had planned to run small LED type park lights where they aren't blocked. How bright and usable is the park light feature of the E code headlights? Are they a viable alternative while I have the E codes installed?
I know I've co-opted the OPs intent for this post and probably should have started a new one, but this lighting "stuff" is so important I didn't think he'd mind. I can't be the only one wanting to use items (headlights in this case) I consider vastly superior to anything currently available.
Now that I have a plan, it looks like I need to get a couple of the Eurospec Cibies to stand in until I can take the time to remove, disassemble, refurbish, and reinstall the Z beams.
Any chance you're coming to Portland for the swapmeet?
With my 175s blocking the grille mounted park lights, I had planned to run small LED type park lights where they aren't blocked. How bright and usable is the park light feature of the E code headlights? Are they a viable alternative while I have the E codes installed?
I know I've co-opted the OPs intent for this post and probably should have started a new one, but this lighting "stuff" is so important I didn't think he'd mind. I can't be the only one wanting to use items (headlights in this case) I consider vastly superior to anything currently available.
slantsixdan
=..=
Glad to help out.
Send me a PM. (keep in mind the Z-beams are European-code items, too)
Not this year, I'm afraid.
Completely! But they are parking lamps only, not turn signals. Sounds like you might need to either move the 175s elsewhere or retrofit some turn signals elsewhere. A set of the valence-mounted items used on '61-'62 Lancers and '63 Valiants and Darts might be readily adaptible.
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