Rocker cover

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BWA

BWA

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OK, what's the secret to getting the rocker cover off a 225 with air.

Any tricks, tips, secret incantations etc.

Bettsy has been running very poorly of late. Fixed some choke problems, changed the cap and rotor, new wires coming (although, all plugs are firing evenly).

Now, has steady misfire, at least two cylinders.

Got the cover off (going to set valves), but, needed about six hands to do it. Putting it back on without destroying the new gasket, looks pretty un doable.

Will do compression test after I get the valves set. The standard .010/.020 In/Ex what everybody uses???

Any ideas greatly appreciated.....

Al(BWA)
 
At least 2 cylinders, and "now",lead to the inevitable question; Are you sure you got the firing order right; 1-5-3-6-2-4?

Ten and twenty is right hot. But by the time you get everything off things have usually cooled off considerably.
I set mine cold,to twelve and twenty-three at a summertime temp of about 75*F.Seems pretty good to me.Years ago in the mid 90s I set them like that, then got er warmed up, ripped the top as fast as I could and rechecked the lash. Ten and twenty was about what I found. So the 12/23 been my standard ever since.
At one time I experimented with a tighter exhaust lash,going down to .018 cold, with no appreciable difference.So back it went.Shes pushing more than 400,000KMs now,that would be more than 250,000miles.
I cant say to A/C but on mine the alt has to pretty much be removed.I can do the job with it loosened and flipped but its a real chore, so I just spin the bolts out and lay it aside.
 
Thanks. No, checked the firing order, then, re checked, and, checked it, one more time.

Well, got them set. They were pretty slack, .040 to .060.

Oddly, it is now a bit harder starting, and, has a wicked flat spot off idle. But, the valve train is a bit quieter....... Will re check that when I get the rocker cover back on.

I'm starting to think burned valves, or, head gasket. Although, no signs of excess moisture out the back, and, none of the plugs was water blasted. No bubbling in the rad etc.....
 
If the flat spot and the hard start, developed after the valve adjustment, I would go back and recheck/redo it. Possibly check your feeler gauge etchings.It really sounds like some valves are tight. The hard start could be tight exhausts. The flatspot could be tight intakes.

Getting back to the misfires.Since you didnt mention misfires prior to the parts replacement, I assume it came afterwards. In which case, I would be looking at the new parts.
The first thing I would do is figure out which cylinders are faulty, by pulling one wire at a time.When found, I would compare them first to the firing order.
- If they are consecutive firing, I would pop the cap, and look for a defect there.If none there I would examine the wire routing to look for cross firing. And then I would check the plugs themselves, by swapping them to different cylinders, and again isolating the problem cylinders.
If they are not consecutive firing, perhaps they are adjacent cylinders, in which case a head gasket blown between cylinders may have occured, however unlikely at this point.
Perhaps the two misfiring cylinders are next to eachother on the intake manifold. In which case the problem could be a gasket there.
Perhaps the two are on the same idle mixture screw(2 BBLs), in which case I would be checking out the airbleeds, and idle circuits.
Perhaps the misfires are random and untraceable to particular cylinders. In which case I would be looking to the AFRs,the fuel quality/age, the intake again, or air contaminated with EGR.
And as a wild card, dirty points. If you have them, they should be the first thing on the list.
So, as you can see, it all starts with determining who the cranky cylinders are or are not.
Good luck, hunting.
 
I set them static. No reason not to....

Only had Metric feeler gauges, so, I used my micrometer to find the closest right ones. They were .012 and .020. Close enough....

My background is British Sports cars. Been servicing and restoring them for about 50 years. They all have solid lifters, and, I fully understand the differences between hot and cold setting.

It would be pretty unusual, but, certainly not impossible for me to have made a mistake setting them, but, I will re check them tomorrow.

This has been coming on slowly for a few months, it has just been too cold and crappy for me to get under the hood. Started out as just a choke/cold air pre heat related problem. Would start instantly, but, soon choke out. Once warmed up, it ran great. Replaced the choke pulloff hose (it was both cracked, and, plugged). Cold air pre heat is still not fixed. Heat motor in snorkel is busted.....

Cap and rotor are brand new, so, probably (but, not necessarily) not the problem.

I'll get the new wires on tomorrow, and, do a compression test.

Misfire is definitely specific cylinders, and, not random.

Thanks again for the tips.

Al(BAW)

Have to see if I can find my vacuum gauge, and, see what it says....

Carb is a single barrel Rochester
 
I suggest the setting them while running, not because of any thermal reasons, but just because it's super easy and a lot quicker than bumping the engine over and setting valves, bumping it, etc... You just let it run and adjust. There's a video on youtube of a really cool guy doing it. lol.

Did you pull plug wires while running to specificallly pinpoint the number cylinders that misfire? I.e: 1 and 6?

Also you spun the push rods while the valve cover was off when they were released? Were any of them bent?

The other thing I'd try is if you have, say cylinder 5 misfiring, you can loosen the exhaust valve lash and see if it starts firing. It could be a burnt valve. Before I did my valve job, I had cylinder 4 misfire, and a push rod totally broke in half on 3. It still ran. But setting the exhaust lash out to about .040 Let the cylinder fire again, but it ran bad. That valve was toasted pretty good. Once it was fixed, i set mine to .010/.020 running.
 
I use a method that only requires the engine to be rotated 3 complete revolutions to do all six cylinders, takes me about ten minutes. Takes way longer screwing around with the rocker cover than setting the valves.....

Slant six engines are pretty easy to turn by hand, with the fan, no need to bump them with the key.....

All the valves were way over .040, to as much as .060....
 
I was in no way disrespecting you. I only question the results.
Perhaps the camlobes were not on the base circle.
I guess its also possible that the wires did not survive the cap install. That would explain the hard start and the bog if shes only running on 4 cylinders. Its actually the most likely theory.
I know that system. I use the TDC per cylinder, that uses 2 complete revolutions. Its slick if the balancer is marked.
 
No disrespect taken....

The cap was changed about 50 miles before I adjusted the valves.

I had started the engine with the cover off, engine warm, and, it started fine, and, had no flat spot (but, still with the misfire). As soon as I set the valves, and, restarted it started a bit harder, and, has a massive flat spot.

My valve adjusting method puts the lifter right on the backside of the base circle 180 deg opposite the lobe, so, well away from the lobe ramps. It helps eliminate errors caused by other methods, especially on hotter cams......

Haven't pulled any plug wires yet. Too awkward to do on the /6 while it's running.

Al(BWA)
 
Ok so youre saying, and I know Im repeating myself, that the flatspot and hard start came directly after the valve adjustment.In that case I would back off every exhaust valve exactly 1/4 turn and try it again. If no change I would do the same on the intakes. If still no change I would put them all back the 1/4 turn. I would quietly put my tools down and walk away.lol
BTW, you might want to check if the accelerator pump linkage fell apart while you werent looking. double lol
 
Funny you should mention the Accelerator pump linkage.

But, first, a little back story on the car. About 5 years ago, I bought an 8 acre property way out in the country, way beyond land lines and cable.......:D

I have a 1K driveway, 1300 feet of a decent river, and, a pig farmer as my closest neighbour......

Also on the property, was, a 3600sq ft shed with a concrete floor. Inside the shed was Bettsy, a rather pale yellow four door Plymouth Valiant, complete with a signed ownership in the glove box.

Fast forward to 4 years later, and, I dropped a rod in my 05 Kia Sedona, had no wheels, so, dug Bettsy out of the shed. Front brakes were seized. Turns out, it is disc brake car, so, easy peasy job to fit new rotors, callipers and pads. It eventually started even on the probably 6 year old gas. Smelled like burning turpentine for a couple of weeks.

Have put 10,000 miles on it since last February. Pretty trouble free except for the last little while.

Anyway, back to the accelerator pump linkage. I noticed, when driving it, if I gave it too much boot after a fast stop, it would sometimes stumble a bit. It did stall a couple of times, but, once I got used to it, it hardly ever catches me out, and, basically hardly ever happens, nor, causes any driveability problems.

Upon checking this out, I immediately found out, that the screw holding the linkage to the carb, is missing, hence, no accelerator pump at all.

Being a bit of an economy type driver, I have quite often in the past disconnected the accelerator pumps from many of my previous cars with very little effect on driveability, but, a slight increase in economy. So, wasn't too bothered about fixing it.

And, that's my story, and, I'm sticking to it.......:happy1:

Al(BWA)
 
OK, fired it up this morning from cold, had it's best cold start ever.

It always did have a good initial start, but, within seconds, would choke up and get stumbly. At least twice on the trip down the driveway, I would have to pop it in to neutral, and, rev the beans out of it to clear it up. This morning, just pressed the pedal once to set the choke, fired it up, and, it ran fine with no choking or stumbling.

It does still however, have the miss.

The best news though, is, that, I figured out how to do the rocker cover with little to no aggravation. Dropped it back on in about 30 seconds, without getting hooked on anything.

You need a couple of lengths of rope (couple of feet each will do) ,and, a block of wood.

First, run the rope under the heater hoses near the firewall, pull them up, and, tie them up to the fender brace real tight. At the front, run the other piece of rope round the front AC hose, and, pull it up tight to the upper rad hose as close the rad as you can, and, tie off. The block, is to jam under the AC hose going over the middle of the engine, to, get it up as high as you can.

Once all this is done, the cover will drop in no problem. The alternator, is not even close to being in the way doing it like this......:blob:

Off to get my wires today

Al(BWA)
 
BWA said:
OK, fired it up this morning from cold, had it's best cold start ever.

It always did have a good initial start, but, within seconds, would choke up and get stumbly. At least twice on the trip down the driveway, I would have to pop it in to neutral, and, rev the beans out of it to clear it up. This morning, just pressed the pedal once to set the choke, fired it up, and, it ran fine with no choking or stumbling.

It does still however, have the miss.

The best news though, is, that, I figured out how to do the rocker cover with little to no aggravation. Dropped it back on in about 30 seconds, without getting hooked on anything.

You need a couple of lengths of rope (couple of feet each will do) ,and, a block of wood.

First, run the rope under the heater hoses near the firewall, pull them up, and, tie them up to the fender brace real tight. At the front, run the other piece of rope round the front AC hose, and, pull it up tight to the upper rad hose as close the rad as you can, and, tie off. The block, is to jam under the AC hose going over the middle of the engine, to, get it up as high as you can.

Once all this is done, the cover will drop in no problem. The alternator, is not even close to being in the way doing it like this......:blob:

Off to get my wires today

Al(BWA)
Click to expand...

Thanks for sharing. It is a bit of a challenge getting the cover off. Your rope trick sounds like it will make a much easier job of it.
 
Ropes are good. I use tarpstraps; black rubber bungee cords with hooks in the end.
So, was that with or without a functioning accelerator pump?
Was that with the timing still at 10* BTDC ?
Well I sure hope the wires cure your miss.
 
Bummer, no different with the wires.

Still haven't fixed the pump. Carb is a single barrel Rochester, and, is basically a steaming ball of black gunk. Needs rebuilt for sure (even though, despite the miss and stumble, it does function fine), it's on the list......

No idea where the ignition is at, but, with the instant starts, no pinging, and, general driveability, it can't be too far off.

It's looking more and more like a couple of burned valves, so, I can see a valve job in my future (hope I can find all my seat cutting tools). Should get my compression test done in a couple of days.

Any spare Peanut heads going in the Niagara Peninsula. Would like to do the head up first, and, then just swap it out.......

Any performance valves available for these heads???? Are they 5/16 stems??? or, 3/8 I have Bronze guide liners and install reamers for 5/16, but, not sure if I have them for 3/8....

Onward.....

Al(BWA)
 
yeah,bummer.
Have you done a compression test yet, or a cylinder leakage test?
I suppose with the choke flooding the way it was,there might be a significant amount of carbon build-up on the valves, which could lead to them not sealing and the resultant misfires.
Perhaps a round of top end cleaner would help. And then the compression test.
I guess....
 
Nice, pretty reasonable price too. Wonder if they do the same in standard sizes.
 
Well, finally got around to doing the compression test. When I got the plugs out, answer was pretty obvious.

No 1 plug, looked like it had just been pulled out of the Tar Sands, completely black and, oil fouled..............

Odd, since, when I had pulled the plugs just as this all started to happen, all plugs were fine.

Even odder, was, when I put that same plug back (still pretty black, and, with just some of the oil scraped off) in #3 cylinder, it fired just fine........

So, Bettsy lives :blob::burnout:

Compresssion was 125, 125, 85, 120, 75, 120. So, not great on 3 and 5, but, will probably run fine till the weather gets better and, I can get one of my other cars running......

Life is good.......:glasses7:

Al(BWA)
 
Yeah, but, I'm not too big on pulling live wires while the engine is running been fried too many times.:banghead:

Was no point in pulling the plugs which had just been out, and, showed no signs of malfunction. So, the plugs didn't get pulled till today when I got hold of the compression tester.

Which, brings us to post 23.......:D

Al(BWA)
 
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