SB Stroker....One more time

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Haney

Haney

www.carsonandironmt.com
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Hello all.... Well, I started this tread a long time ago, I needed to sell a project car before I could get started. Well, I did and then, well life got busy and no car work got done.... Now I find myself with some $$ and I am ready to do the stroker...

After re-reading all the info put on my original post as well as other stroker info since then, I have decided that I will proceed with the following...

Going to take my block to the machine shop and have the one rusty cylinder cleaned. Hopefully it will clean up at 0.030, .040, .060, .070. That way I can use stock sized stroker pistons. I will use a flat top at zero deck and shoot for static CR between 10:5 and 11:1. Using my P&P Edelbrocks with a 65cc chamber. For a cam, I would like to use a hydraulic roller, but that is out of my budget. Still up in the air between a solid and hydraulic flat tappet, but I am leaning hydraulic. Anyone ever used a Comp Cams Xtreme Hi-lift XE295HL? That is a cam that has 251/257 duration @ .050 and mid .5xx lift.

All the above topped off with good 1.5 roller rocker gear, an RPM Intake and 950 HP.

What do you think? Will this make a nice combo? Any input at all will be greatly appreciated. The rest of my car specs are in the link to the previous post but in a nut shell is a 69 Barracuda, 4 -speed, 3.91, 235/60/15 (26.1") rear tires.
 
Sounds like a heck of a combo!! the only issue (and it may not be much of an issue) is to make sure your lifter bores are dead nuts so you don't wipe out that cam.
 
Sounds good to me but the part about the rusty cylinder. If it needs bored over .030 I suggest having it sonic tested. You just never know how thick things are and when you start boring over .030 the cylinders can get thin. I haven't used the cam you mentioned but I'll say it'll be a rough idling beast that should make good power. Should work fine with the 4 gear and 3.91's.

Spend the extra money to stud the mains and have it align honed. Use good rods too, like SCAT's. A lot of guys like Eagles and their good but SCAT's 4340 steel is stronger than Eagles 5140. Plus they clear the block without notching. De-bur the oiling system and make sure and run a good pan and aftermarket oil pickup.
 
actually, I was talking about the lifter bore centerline over the cam - very important with these cams that use all the real estate available with the mopar sized lifter diameter....if he bushes the lifter bores, then he's set....
 
kielbasa said:
actually, I was talking about the lifter bore centerline over the cam - very important with these cams that use all the real estate available with the mopar sized lifter diameter....if he bushes the lifter bores, then he's set....
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Oh, ok. Yes that can be an issue with them also but I have never seen one wipe a cam because of it. If their way off I could see it happening. I have seen them too tight and too loose though.

The XE series Comp Cams is fairly aggressive but not nearly as much as a cam can be for .904 lifters.
 
I really like the series of cams you have chosen, I will be using the 285 of that series and Rhoads lifters to smooth out the idle characteristics of that cam.
The 275 would be smoother but raises my dynamic ratio above my threshold for pump gas.
Andrew
 
How "rough" will the idle be for a XE295HL in a 4" stroker motor? I thought if you stayed in the 250 ish range @.050 it would have nice idle characteristics for a street car......
 
Haney said:
How "rough" will the idle be for a XE295HL in a 4" stroker motor? I thought if you stayed in the 250 ish range @.050 it would have nice idle characteristics for a street car......
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I guess it depends on how you define "nice idle". I think it'll be pretty rough. About like an old 284/484 cam in a 340/360 is my guess. JMHO
 
It'll be rough, but still driveable. You'll probably have to go with a slightly higher idle is about it.

There are people cruising around with a hell of a lot meaner stuff than that.
 
I already have a MP crank and Eagle H beam rods.... Just need pistons, rings and bearings for my bottom end.
 
Haney said:
.... I will use a flat top at zero deck and shoot for static CR between 10:5 and 11:1. Using my P&P Edelbrocks with a 65cc chamber...... Anyone ever used a Comp Cams Xtreme Hi-lift XE295HL? That is a cam that has 251/257 duration @ .050 and mid .5xx lift.
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I would cc the chamber on those heads before you order pistons (DAMHIK). I don't recall for sure, but I thought flat tops put you around 12:1 comp on a stroker. I used that cam on my 360...it wiped a lobe and I had rebuild (new bearings, pistons, hone, clean the block, blablabla). This was why I don't use flat tappet cams anymore.
 
It sounds good to me. You will need to upgrade the valve springs for the cam as Edelbrock's don't have the pressure you need. You will want to use the 1008 Felpro Performance head gaskets... They are .039" thick compressed and have the preflattened fire ring to avoid brinnelling of the heads. Wth a flat top at zero deck and 65cc chambers you're looking at 11.4:1 and with that cam that should be fine for pump super. You could also go dished but I think if you do the idle will be a little rough as even the smallest dish puts it down to 10.2. As far as the cam... Make sure the lifter bores are no larger than .906 and make sure the engine is fired immediately and the inner springs are left out during the cam break in. You should have no issues.
 
Roller cam set ups are expensive. But so is the cost of wiping a flat tappet lobe and having to start over.
 
fishy68 said:
Oh, ok. Yes that can be an issue with them also but I have never seen one wipe a cam because of it. If their way off I could see it happening. I have seen them too tight and too loose though.

The XE series Comp Cams is fairly aggressive but not nearly as much as a cam can be for .904 lifters.
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I thought the HL series cams took full advantage of the .904 lifter????
 
The HL series lobe is one of Comp's faster rates of lift. Faster than their XE series of lobes.
 
Hughes Engines cams also take full advantage of the mopar 904 lifter...I have one of their hyd. rollers in my 408...they know all about it...
 
moper said:
It sounds good to me. You will need to upgrade the valve springs for the cam as Edelbrock's don't have the pressure you need. You will want to use the 1008 Felpro Performance head gaskets... They are .039" thick compressed and have the preflattened fire ring to avoid brinnelling of the heads. Wth a flat top at zero deck and 65cc chambers you're looking at 11.4:1 and with that cam that should be fine for pump super. You could also go dished but I think if you do the idle will be a little rough as even the smallest dish puts it down to 10.2. As far as the cam... Make sure the lifter bores are no larger than .906 and make sure the engine is fired immediately and the inner springs are left out during the cam break in. You should have no issues.
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Thanks for all the good info to all and Moper..... I have got my eye on some Probe SRS flat tops. They have -5.5 cc valve reliefs. Assuming a zero deck, .039 thick gasket with a 4.18 dia, a cylinder bore of 4.040. This would give me a CR of 11.6. NOW here is where I need help.... Even though my car is not a race car, I do not want to leave any HP on the table. It is not a daily driver but a toy that gets weekend use. Although, I don't want to leave any HP on the table, I don't want it to be a bear to drive, idle like a super stocker, and have to run race gas. So...... can I run 93 octane gas in a 11.6 CR street car? I know it has to do with the size of cam to bleed off cylinder pressure, right? So, how small of a cam can I run, still make decent power and run pump gas at this higher CR. I get the feeling from the other post that the XE295HL might be stressful on valvetrain??? Is there a specific cam anyone would recommend?

Next question. If I were to use a set of dish pistons, like the dished PROBE SRS's that have a head volume of -17.5 and everything else the same, I would have a CR of 10.3 If I did this and run a cam in the high 230s low 240s @ .050 and low to mid .5s in lift...... How much HP would I leave on the table?

Again, I REALLY appreciate all the help from you guys......
 
mopardude318 said:
Hughes Engines cams also take full advantage of the mopar 904 lifter...I have one of their hyd. rollers in my 408...they know all about it...
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Hey Mopardude.... Tell me about your motor!!! Will it run on pump gas? If I could get those number out of mine, I would be :toothy10:....
 
My 408..The short block was built by Hughes Engines which consists of a Mopar Performance cast crank (better than the Eagle cast crank), Scat H-beam rods, and KB Forged 10:1 pistons, internally balanced. I used a milodon gear drive to handle the timing duties. (and because I liked the whine noise it makes) The bottom end was buttoned up with a HV Melling oil pump and a 7 qt moroso oil pan with a built in windage tray.

I also sent my Edelbrock heads to Hughes Engines to get the stage 3 porting with 208 intake valves, new seats and springs to match my cam. The cam is a custom Hughes grind hyd. roller 252/258 deg. duration @ .050" and 576/576 int/exh lift @ .050.
I am also using the Hughes 1.6 aluminum roller rockers. The intake is a Victor 340 ported and gasket matched to the heads, (done by Hughes) and I have a 750 mighty demon carb. I am using an electric CSR water pump, so that probably freed up a few horsepower, and also used the TTI 1 5/8 1 3/4 headers...I think that's pretty much it....It was actually pretty expensive for me to build this engine and man I wish I would have went big block because I know I would have had 100 more horsepower and torque...for the money I spent on this engine..( i should have at least used Indy heads and top end package, i know I would have touched the 580 HP/TQ mark...) and yes, its a 91 octane pump gas engine..

Maybe next time I will have Brain at IMM build me the engine..
__________________
 
mopardude318 said:
My 408..The short block was built by Hughes Engines which consists of a Mopar Performance cast crank (better than the Eagle cast crank), Scat H-beam rods, and KB Forged 10:1 pistons, internally balanced. I used a milodon gear drive to handle the timing duties. (and because I liked the whine noise it makes) The bottom end was buttoned up with a HV Melling oil pump and a 7 qt moroso oil pan with a built in windage tray.

I also sent my Edelbrock heads to Hughes Engines to get the stage 3 porting with 208 intake valves, new seats and springs to match my cam. The cam is a custom Hughes grind hyd. roller 252/258 deg. duration @ .050" and 576/576 int/exh lift @ .050.
I am also using the Hughes 1.6 aluminum roller rockers. The intake is a Victor 340 ported and gasket matched to the heads, (done by Hughes) and I have a 750 mighty demon carb. I am using an electric CSR water pump, so that probably freed up a few horsepower, and also used the TTI 1 5/8 1 3/4 headers...I think that's pretty much it....It was actually pretty expensive for me to build this engine and man I wish I would have went big block because I know I would have had 100 more horsepower and torque...for the money I spent on this engine..( i should have at least used Indy heads and top end package, i know I would have touched the 580 HP/TQ mark...) and yes, its a 91 octane pump gas engine..

Maybe next time I will have Brain at IMM build me the engine..
__________________
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I am assuming dished pistons at zero deck??? If so, WOW..... How is the idle?
 
They are flat tops...But I dont have the engine installed in the car, but on the dyno, it had a real choppey/agressive idle...lol
 
mopardude318 said:
They are flat tops...But I dont have the engine installed in the car, but on the dyno, it had a real choppey/agressive idle...lol
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I thought ALL stroker pistons were dished??

I know if you only had 5cc for valve reliefs only and a 4.0 crank with a 65cc head your compression will be 11.5:1 or so
 
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