School me on supercharging a 360

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Check out http://www.turbomustangs.com/ I am in there I have a mild 5.9 with a 62-1 turbonectics in a dakota it went 10.90@123mph on 10#'s I had a procharger dsc-1 I love the turbo alot better but thats just me,get in theere and read the carb section if you want to learn blow through they work just have pacients.
 
setting up the FI is really quite easy once i got into it. I'd be happy to help with anything you'd need on that.
 
Thanks TT'74, I may be taking you up on that. Strange as it may sound, I am going to be in your area at the first of next March. My vacation at Cocoa Beach is already booked and we will be flying into Orlando.

Jack
 
Good deal, should have my duster put back together by then so you can see how everything is set up.
 
I don't have a ton of blower experience, but I have some. I've built three and helped with one that was a bracket racer. Blowers are expensive. As such, there's something that's never made sense to me. Almost everyone you see running one has it underdriven. This is stupid to me. I've always been of the mindset that if you're gonna spend 5K on one part, use the HOUND out of it. The one blown motor that I built for someone with a free hand was a 340 with a 6-71. We used costom JE pistons at a 6.5 to1 compression ratio and overdrove the blower 5%. He had to run on premium pump fuel, but that thing would really skin it back. This has been about twenty years or so ago. The more you use the blower, the more you can hear it. LOL Also, the volumetric effeciency goes through the roof. Blower motors are all about boost. The more you USE the boost, the better they run. I mean, it just makes no sense to bolt one on and underdrive it. To me, it's pointless. Blown motors also need camshafts with wide lobe separation to help keep cylinder pressure up. You'll need to talk to your camshaft company for the best recommendation for your combination. Lastly, steer clear of those with the teflon rotor seals. They are always giving problems. Going with a 6-71 you probably won't need to worry about that because the teflon seals are usually only in those "mini" blowers that are really only for looks. Hope that helps. If not, just give it a big flush. LMAO
 
One thing that occurred to me this weekend is that I have been looking at this as building a new car and putting this engine in it because if I was going with a Viper drivetrain or a Hemi, I might as well do that. If I go with a blown smallblock then I can keep my present car and concentrate on the engine only. That would also free up some cash for the engine. There would be other considerations but they would mostly be mechanical related such as radiator and exhaust. This idea is starting to look more feasable all the time. Like I said before, 5.9 Magnum's are plentiful and cheap. They also look like a good base to start on. I could sell my current engine (which is healthy at 400+ HP), to help pay for the blower engine.

Jack
 
What is your HP goals are you just want to put something together and see what you end up with,I still have the procharger off my Dakota well I sold it to my brother but it is under the bench in the garage it has the brackets for a LA block it was bought from the supercharger store it has two pulleys 8# and a 12#.I'm sure he would let it go he just told me the other day he needs to get read of it.
 
StrokerScamp said:
I don't have a ton of blower experience, but I have some. I've built three and helped with one that was a bracket racer. Blowers are expensive. As such, there's something that's never made sense to me. Almost everyone you see running one has it underdriven. This is stupid to me. I've always been of the mindset that if you're gonna spend 5K on one part, use the HOUND out of it. The one blown motor that I built for someone with a free hand was a 340 with a 6-71. We used costom JE pistons at a 6.5 to1 compression ratio and overdrove the blower 5%. He had to run on premium pump fuel, but that thing would really skin it back. This has been about twenty years or so ago. The more you use the blower, the more you can hear it. LOL Also, the volumetric effeciency goes through the roof. Blower motors are all about boost. The more you USE the boost, the better they run. I mean, it just makes no sense to bolt one on and underdrive it. To me, it's pointless.
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You had to run premium on 6.5:1 compression? That must have been some serious boost it was pushing. Not that I can say I really know much about them, but the whole underdrive / overdrive thing has a lot to do with just how much blower you need. I've also heard underdriving is good because it helps keep the air temp down. I was debating this myself as I was waffling between a 6-71 and an 8-71 blower. I could get the same boost from the 8-71 underdriven (with possibly less heat generated from boost than an overdriven 6-71), but I would have to way overdrive the 6-71 if I wanted big boost for a race setup. The big thing is just to check out a blower chart for whatever you go with and figure out what kind of ratio you need. You can really make about whatever you want work if you mess with it. Hopefully I'll have that shiny blower on top of my car next year =P.
 
Here's my 360 Magnum with a stock short block (except for a Hughes cam), stock heads (very minimal valve bowl cleanup and a 3-angle valve job), a 750 Hollley double pumper and an MSD Boostmaster ignition (boost retard.)

100_3266.jpg


image0-4.jpg


100_3271.jpg


Valiantpicgood1.jpg
 
Bill Dedman said:
Here's my 360 Magnum with a stock short block (except for a Hughes cam), stock heads (very minimal valve bowl cleanup and a 3-angle valve job), a 750 Hollley double pumper and an MSD Boostmaster ignition (boost retard.)
Click to expand...

I tried to upload this chassis dyno sheet for the car, but it didn't make it.

Here's attempt number two....

image0-3.jpg
 
Bill Dedman said:
I tried to upload this chassis dyno sheet for the car, but it didn't make it.

Here's attempt number two....
Click to expand...

Not very impressive, for sure, but shows what can be done with a nearly stock engine (stock short block, except for the cam) and almost completely stock heads.

The blower is a Vortech S-Trim, V-1, the compression is stock (OEM) at 9:1 (I checked it), and the redline is 6,000 rpm. I have pulleys on it that give 10 pounds of boost from about 2,500 rpm to the 6-grand redline. I am deathly afraid to run more, due to the cast (stock) pistons....

Headers are TTI 1-58"/1-34" stepped headers, with a 2.5" H-Pipe exhaust system; DynoMax Super Turbo mufflers, and 2.5" tailpipes.

3.55:1 8.75" rear end, 904 T-Flite; 3,340 pounds with no driver aboard.

The 1,000-foot times equate to approximately 11.77 @ 116 mph for the quarter-mile.

Since that run, I have added slicks that are 1" wider (9"), and a 4.10 final drive ratio. The 60-foot times should come down about .3-sec (I HOPE; it was spinning all the way through 1st gear the last time out), so the quarter-mile times should drop into the 11.40s or '50s, I would think. MPH probably won't increase.

I have no idea what its reported 445 rear wheel HP would be at the flywheel.

Too danged hot to race, here, right now...
 
rdakota340 said:
What is your HP goals are you just want to put something together and see what you end up with,I still have the procharger off my Dakota well I sold it to my brother but it is under the bench in the garage it has the brackets for a LA block it was bought from the supercharger store it has two pulleys 8# and a 12#.I'm sure he would let it go he just told me the other day he needs to get read of it.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the offer rdakota340. But I have already had a very generous offer from another member that I turned down. If I do build a blower engine it will be a roots type blower that sticks out of the hood. As I said earlier in the thread I am going for the WOW factor in whichever build I do. I know, it sounds kind of childish, but, I have a pretty quick car right now that is a blast to drive, but I just want something a little different and around here, a roots blower sticking out of the hood is not very common. I only know of 2 in my area, one is a older rod and the other a 68 chevelle.

Jack
 
Bill Dedman said:
Not very impressive, for sure, but shows what can be done with a nearly stock engine (stock short block, except for the cam) and almost completely stock heads.

The blower is a Vortech S-Trim, V-1, the compression is stock (OEM) at 9:1 (I checked it), and the redline is 6,000 rpm. I have pulleys on it that give 10 pounds of boost from about 2,500 rpm to the 6-grand redline. I am deathly afraid to run more, due to the cast (stock) pistons....

Headers are TTI 1-58"/1-34" stepped headers, with a 2.5" H-Pipe exhaust system; DynoMax Super Turbo mufflers, and 2.5" tailpipes.

3.55:1 8.75" rear end, 904 T-Flite; 3,340 pounds with no driver aboard.

The 1,000-foot times equate to approximately 11.77 @ 116 mph for the quarter-mile.

Since that run, I have added slicks that are 1" wider (9"), and a 4.10 final drive ratio. The 60-foot times should come down about .3-sec (I HOPE; it was spinning all the way through 1st gear the last time out), so the quarter-mile times should drop into the 11.40s or '50s, I would think. MPH probably won't increase.

I have no idea what its reported 445 rear wheel HP would be at the flywheel.

Too danged hot to race, here, right now...
Click to expand...

Bill,
Those are impressive numbers considering your 60 foot time. I would not doubt that you will get to the very low 11's or maybe high 10's with that setup. You seem to be loosing a lot of time coming off the line and maybe with a little diet in the car could get much quicker. With the rear wheel HP you have I would guess somewhere from 510 to 525 HP at the crank. By the way, that is a really cool sleeper you have there. I bet you surprise a lot of folks with that car.

Jack
 
Map63Vette said:
You had to run premium on 6.5:1 compression? That must have been some serious boost it was pushing. Not that I can say I really know much about them, but the whole underdrive / overdrive thing has a lot to do with just how much blower you need. I've also heard underdriving is good because it helps keep the air temp down. I was debating this myself as I was waffling between a 6-71 and an 8-71 blower. I could get the same boost from the 8-71 underdriven (with possibly less heat generated from boost than an overdriven 6-71), but I would have to way overdrive the 6-71 if I wanted big boost for a race setup. The big thing is just to check out a blower chart for whatever you go with and figure out what kind of ratio you need. You can really make about whatever you want work if you mess with it. Hopefully I'll have that shiny blower on top of my car next year =P.
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We ran around 12PSI if I remember correctly, so premium gas was mandatory. We had no intercooler, as, at the time, they were fairly new technology, so I am sure the air temperature was a factor. Had we run an intercooler, we likely could have overdriven 8 or even 10%, or perhaps run on regular fuel at 5%. For your application, I believe an 8-71 will be a waste. It's all about using a blower to its full potential, especially with a roots blower. The more power that comes from the blower itself, the more efficient the engine will be, as long of course other things are taken into consideration such as the addition of an intercooler. Keeping air temps down, a 6-71 should be enough to boost all but the most serious big block combination.....if done correctly. But remember, I said from the onset i didn't have much blower experience. I'm no expert by any means. I've just dabbled in a few and had success with them, so i thought I'd throw it out there. It's really like anything else. If you use a little common sense, you can really make it work to your advantage.
 
Coyote Jack said:
Thanks for the offer rdakota340. But I have already had a very generous offer from another member that I turned down. If I do build a blower engine it will be a roots type blower that sticks out of the hood. As I said earlier in the thread I am going for the WOW factor in whichever build I do. I know, it sounds kind of childish, but, I have a pretty quick car right now that is a blast to drive, but I just want something a little different and around here, a roots blower sticking out of the hood is not very common. I only know of 2 in my area, one is a older rod and the other a 68 chevelle.

Jack
Click to expand...

Nothing stops muscle car folks like a TT set up in a mopar. Just my experience, unfortunately you only get that WOW factor when the hood is up.
 
StrokerScamp said:
For your application, I believe an 8-71 will be a waste. It's all about using a blower to its full potential, especially with a roots blower. The more power that comes from the blower itself, the more efficient the engine will be, as long of course other things are taken into consideration such as the addition of an intercooler. Keeping air temps down, a 6-71 should be enough to boost all but the most serious big block combination.....if done correctly.
Click to expand...

Yeah, the main reason I was concerned was I was looking at some BDS blower charts and their small bore 6-71 is just really low boost all around. They report only being able to make around maybe 15 pounds of boost at a max overdrive of 20-30% or something. There was just no way I wanted to run the blower that hard on a high winding small block, it would be screaming at the top end, lol. Their big bore 6-71 was not much different than the 8-71 though, and the Dyer's 6-71 kits I was looking pumped out good boost all the way around. I planned to run around maybe 10 pounds on the street and then pump it up to 15-20 when I took it to the races on race gas.
 
I will be going on vacation for almost 2 weeks starting in a couple of hours. Keep on posting the info though guy's I will be checking in every 2 or 3 days.

Jack
 
Bill Dedman said:
Not very impressive, for sure, but shows what can be done with a nearly stock engine (stock short block, except for the cam) and almost completely stock heads.

...
Click to expand...

that is very impresive performance,especialy considering the almost perfect sleaper looks and from what i would gues a fairly mild sounding exhausttone..
get to work on those 60´s and i think you will easily run low low 11´s may even dip into the 10´s ,getting the 60´s where they realy should be for that performance may take time and alot of patience but i think it would pay of bigtime :)

mid to low 11´s should 60 low 1.5´s from my litle experience on a fairly lightwheigt leafspring streetdriven brand x with a NA smallblock
 
Map63Vette said:
Yeah, the main reason I was concerned was I was looking at some BDS blower charts and their small bore 6-71 is just really low boost all around. They report only being able to make around maybe 15 pounds of boost at a max overdrive of 20-30% or something. There was just no way I wanted to run the blower that hard on a high winding small block, it would be screaming at the top end, lol. Their big bore 6-71 was not much different than the 8-71 though, and the Dyer's 6-71 kits I was looking pumped out good boost all the way around. I planned to run around maybe 10 pounds on the street and then pump it up to 15-20 when I took it to the races on race gas.
Click to expand...

Again, I'm no expert... I cannot say that enough LOL....but remember, what engine the blower is on top of has a LOT to do with available boost, too. A 6-71 on a small block can create MUCH more boost than on a big block. smaller bore, shorter stroke=less room to cram air and fuel into, and that means more PSI. I think those BDS charts are probably just a general guide and not meant to be specific. You can get 10-12 PSI boost real quick with a 6-71 on a small block....THAT, I know from first hand experience.
 
Yeah, I completely agree, I'm even less of an expert since I've never even driven a blown car, lol. The little charts they had had reference engine sizes and boost numbers for different drive ratios, but I know a lot of that has to do with head flow and other stuff. Never thought about that stroke issue, that's a good point. Besides, a 6-71 is cheaper, lol =P.
 
I did like the procharger I had but my truck went faster with the turbo on less boost,there is pros and cons on everthing.
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SzZI2JsmsrM"]YouTube- 94 Turbo Dakota[/ame]
 
Coyote Jack said:
Thanks for the offer rdakota340. But I have already had a very generous offer from another member that I turned down. If I do build a blower engine it will be a roots type blower that sticks out of the hood. As I said earlier in the thread I am going for the WOW factor in whichever build I do. I know, it sounds kind of childish, but, I have a pretty quick car right now that is a blast to drive, but I just want something a little different and around here, a roots blower sticking out of the hood is not very common. I only know of 2 in my area, one is a older rod and the other a 68 chevelle.

Jack
Click to expand...
I like the little 142 blowers they work great for the street,you want the 250 series they stick out of the hood though we have run them they are fun, I just hate having to change pulleys to get more boost and blowers do make power down low too either way you will love boost .
 
Coyote Jack said:
Bill,
Those are impressive numbers considering your 60 foot time. I would not doubt that you will get to the very low 11's or maybe high 10's with that setup. You seem to be loosing a lot of time coming off the line and maybe with a little diet in the car could get much quicker. With the rear wheel HP you have I would guess somewhere from 510 to 525 HP at the crank. By the way, that is a really cool sleeper you have there. I bet you surprise a lot of folks with that car.

Jack
Click to expand...

Thanks, Jack, for the kind words!

The day I got that timeslip. it was only 48 degrees and apparently, VHT doesn't work well in cold weather.

My car was spinning HARD, all the way through 1st gear. I tried 6 times; nothing helped.

Since then, I have bought some new slicks that are 9" wide (an inch wider than the old ones) and an inch taller.


I have also installed a 4.10 gear to replace the 3.55 that was in my car when I last ran it.

Better weather will make for some 60-foot improvements, I hope.

Lookin' for some high 1.50s, maybe... :cheers:
 
duster340 said:
that is very impresive performance,especialy considering the almost perfect sleaper looks and from what i would gues a fairly mild sounding exhausttone..
get to work on those 60´s and i think you will easily run low low 11´s may even dip into the 10´s ,getting the 60´s where they realy should be for that performance may take time and alot of patience but i think it would pay off bigtime :)

mid to low 11´s should 60 low 1.5´s from my litle experience on a fairly lightweight leafspring streetdriven brand x with a NA smallblock
Click to expand...

Thanks a lot for the kind words!!! I have installed a 4.10 gear and some wider, taller slicks to try to get the 60-foots down about .3.

The day I ran those 1.81's, it was only 48 degrees, and there was just NO bite.... spinning all the way through first gear....

I'll try these new tires, and maybe a little ballast in back... but, not much!!! LOL!

I'll keep you posted!8) Thanks for your interest!!!

Bill
 
rdakota340 said:
I like the little 142 blowers they work great for the street,you want the 250 series they stick out of the hood though we have run them they are fun, I just hate having to change pulleys to get more boost and blowers do make power down low too either way you will love boost .
Click to expand...

Be careful with the smaller ones. They usually use teflon seals on the edges of the rotors and they give problems galore on some of them. I had one get sucked into an engine and we had to go back through the whole thing. I vowed after that, if I ever did another blower, it would be a -71 series of SOME sort. While the teflon sealed rotored blowers can boast about tighter clearances and improved boost, if you ever have teflon seal problems ONE time, you'll be forever chasin your tail. Ask me how I know. LOL Just my 2 cents.
 
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