Single Plane or Dual Plane? The Great debate!

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MRL Performance

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So we hear it all the time, "Single plane or dual plane?"

The way I see it, its all in the RPM range of the the engine. Past a upper rpm limit, the single plane will win the battle, but up to that point how much are you giving up? I have 2 engines here that can answer that question, at least for this type of engine.

The 2 engines here are very similar and will show how the intake can affect the power band. Here is the basic run down

340 stroker
heads that flow in the mid 270's
9.6 and 9.8 to 1 compression
Same hydraulic roller cam
Same size 750 VS carb
Same dyno
Same fuel from the same gas station
One had a Holley Strip Dominator the other had a CrossWind AG dual plane

For all intense and purposes they are the same engine, a hard hitting 340 Stroker for the street.

The pulls were made from 3000-5800 and here is how it went down. We will only look at the torque

RPM------Holley S/D--------CrossWind D/P

3000------450----------------500
3250------463----------------512
3500------465----------------518
4000------493----------------526
4250------505----------------531
4500------510----------------531
5000------518----------------521
5250------511----------------512
5500------491----------------491
5750------470----------------472


As you can see the D/P intake is kicking *** and taking names on the low end, but yet its not giving up anything on the top end at all. After 4500rpm its a dead heat, power wise. But the guy with the S/P intake has already lost the race and does not have the top end power to run the D/P guy down.

From what I have seen in all the dyno run I have done and seen, the BIG D/P outperform most S/P upto around 6200rpm or so in the bigger HP engines with the heads and cam to make the power. Now these are NON ported intakes, but if you port them both, the power increase would be the same for each. I have a BBM 500ci engine I am working on now and plane to test a RPM vs Victor for some more back to back testing
 
Air speed, stronger signal=win in the tq depot.

The single plane can flow more air , but the air is lazy.
 
Bob - it's known to be a "smaller" single plane. I like them on big blocks but if I'm going to use a single on the small blocks I'd rather run the M1 with the entry and plenum massaged.

Mike - What are the HP and BSFC numbers?
 
The M1 I had here and the SD were just about identical. Same height, same plenum size(by looking at them side by side). It was a customer supplied intake that he really wanted to use. He is super happy with the power and thats all that matters.

HP can be calculated from the torque posted.

BSFC was in the mid-low 400's for the SP and low 400's high 300's for the DP
 
How does one calculate the numbers?

(That ought keep some people busy for a little bit)

I also have had the Holley Strip Dominator and the MoPar M1 at the same time. The differances are not really even see with the naked eye. Basicly, there the same. Though MoPar claims more HP from it. The M1 is an updated version of the Holley.

These intakes should really be used as intended and often they are not. They are listed as race intakes.
 
A eye opening difference.Nice to see the test on a stroker. I figured 15-20 down on torque, not 30 to 50.
 
I do not know much about engine building or the finer points of tweaking performance. I love reading your posts, I learn something every time!
 
Good information on the two manifolds. Dat Mikey, he purdy sharp!!!
 
Abodybomber said:
Thinking a velocity style intake port..
Click to expand...

I sure hope u post ur findings on the 500' manifold test. would like to see a comparison of a torker 2 also, they might fit under a stock hood where the other two may not. (really like the prosport lifters, haven`t fired it yet tho)------bob:coffee2:
 
First off, great test in every way.

I would have loved to had seen the same test with 2 more poplular modern intakes. Specifically the victor and the perf RPm.

Edit: I don't doubt the ability of the crosswind however I do doubt the ability of the holley SD
 
I have run both the Airgap and the Victor on my engine, no dyno results, just drag strip results.

Basic engine run down:
410 stroker, ported Edelbrocks, 10.8:1 comp, pump gas, small Comp solid roller (XR286R)248/254 with .576/.582 lift,
750dp, 8” converter, 727 trans, 4:10 gear, 28” tire, 3200 lbs street/strip car.

If I recall all the stats correctly (this was a few years back) the car initially ran quicker in the 60’ with the Airgap (~ 1.50 Airgap, 1.54 Victor), but the Victor pulled more MPH at the 1/8 mile (Victor was ~ 1.5-2 MPH faster than the Airgap). The car actually ran the same ET at first. After some tuning, changing pump cams and such on the carb, I got the 60’ with the Victor to match 60’ with the Airgap (both ~1.50). After that the Victor was just a little quicker in the 1/8.

Best with the Airgap was a 1.49 60’ and 6.89 @ 98 mph in the 1/8.
Best with the Victor (same year) was 1.49 60’ and 6.83 @ 99.2 mph in the 1/8.
Currently running with the Victor, 1.45 60’ and 6.76 @ 100.3 mph in the 1/8. This should see the 6.60’s in the spring :-D.

Basically my take on this data was if I had a slightly smaller cam, or less converter I would have been better off sticking with the Airgap. That Airgap is a beast of a manifold...I might throw it back on this spring just to see how it stacks up now that I have other issues with the car sorted out...it's just 20 bucks for gaskets and a few hours time to swap.
 
That's the spirit! Actual experimentation. Low cost and fun.
What do the times work out for the 1/4?
 
rumblefish360 said:
That's the spirit! Actual experimentation. Low cost and fun.
What do the times work out for the 1/4?
Click to expand...

If I recall correctly, the:

Best with the Airgap was a 1.49 60’ and 6.89 @ 98 mph in the 1/8….was 10.89 @ 121.5 mph in the ¼.
Best with the Victor (same year) was 1.49 60’ and 6.83 @ 99.2 mph in the 1/8….was 10.82 @ 122.9 mph in the ¼.
Currently running with the Victor, 1.45 60’ and 6.76 @ 100.3 mph in the 1/8...no ¼ mile data on this pass because it was during a race, and our Pro category runs 1/8 mile….but with the current state of the chassis and new trans, it would have probably been a high to mid 10.6x @ 124 ish.
 
This was for street engines that need more torque down low. In a race application where the rpm band is much higher, the gain is not seen. I ran the Victor intake on several engines and from what I have seen it makes good top end power but just kills any low end torque. Now the HUGE SV seems to make More torque than the Victor, even at the lower rpm.

I am willing to test a Torker if someone has one for a low deck and wants to send it to me for testing, then I will ship it back, you pay the shipping.
 
I have an unmodified box stock low deck holley street dominator I will send you for your 500" comparison. PM me if you are interested. Unfortunately they no longer make the low deck version of this intake as it has a lower carb height than the M1with similar performance potential.
 
Mike, same offer for the M1 single plane (383/400) low deck intake if ya want to try it out. It's just collecting dust right now. Might be a while before I get to it. I can spare it for a while.

Sheez, after this, you could write a thing in MoPar. Muscle!
 
A chinese air-gap made those numbers,no,lol.I would like to see eldebrock air-gap numbers to compare to.Some say the edelbrock makes way more power,i dont believe theres that much of a difference.Nice thread keep up the good work! Great info here.
 
The intake power differances could be build dependent.
 
:happy1:
I'm currently running a Holley SD on my low deck 500...
Mainly for what was said about low stance for hood clearance.
Makes gobs of torque on the street so I don't miss it down low but if anything like test 1 I don't want to leave that much on the table!
CAN'T WAIT FOR THIS COMPARISON!!
 
I have run both the Crosswind and Eddy on same combo 408's, they make the same power. Both have their issues, but 1 is $100 LESS than the other.
 
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