Slow 1/8 with 74 440 dart

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NoahSewal

NoahSewal

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Sioux City IA
Finally got my car together this summer and i ran it at an 1/8 mile no prep near me. the car is a full interior 74 swinger with a mild 440 with stock cast bottom end besides speed pro L2355F pistons home ported open chamber cast heads with new seats and valves. carb is a 750vs holley. it's got an isky mega race .505 cam with 108 lobe sep. with valve springs and all. it's got a 3000 stall converter in front of a manual 727. also got 4:56 gears with spool and SS springs with 3 way adjustables and cal tracks on a 29.5x10.5 slick. my issue is it ran 9.1 at 78 with 2.01 60' launched at 2500rpm footbrake no wheel spin at all. shifted around 5500 into 2nd and 3rd as it was my first pass on it so i was going easy. are these numbers i should expect from this car? i was expecting atleast 8s lol. the only issue i had was this cam is really picky with timing wants like 30deg at idle and 36 all in and at the time i didn't have a limiter plate in the distributor so it was advancing more than it liked and was pinging at 4,000+rpm. could my timing issue cause that much of a difference in ET? i know it's a lot, just wondering what other people would think
 
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"Are those numbers what you should expect" you asked. Absolutely not. You are correct, that is very slow and low MPH. Should be deep in the 7's and maybe 94 mph in the 1/8
 
318willrun said:
"Are those numbers what you should expect" you asked. Absolutely not. You are correct, that is very slow and low MPH. Should be deep in the 7's and maybe 94 mph in the 1/8
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that's what i was thinking. you think my hiccup with timing could cause that slow of a time?
 
Yes, you need to fix the timing issue before you race it anymore. Detonation at high RPM is an engine killer. Like real quick. Limit it to 34 degrees all in by 2500. I'm not nuts about the 30 degrees initial either. I would mess around with that too. I think another big chunk of your issue is the converter. It's not enough. I'd have a 3800-4200 converter in there that's tight enough for the street. 3000 is nowhere near enough.
 
I agree with RRR, and there is a TON more you need to look into.
 
RustyRatRod said:
Yes, you need to fix the timing issue before you race it anymore. Detonation at high RPM is an engine killer. Like real quick. Limit it to 34 degrees all in by 2500. I'm not nuts about the 30 degrees initial either. I would mess around with that too. I think another big chunk of your issue is the converter. It's not enough. I'd have a 3800-4200 converter in there that's tight enough for the street. 3000 is nowhere near enough.
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i street drive it every now and then so i went with the 3000-3500 stall and it flashes to 3000. i could withstand more stall on the street though as i'm not too bothered by it. thanks for the advice on the timing. not sure why it likes so much initial though. anything below 25 and it idles like crap. and obviously the idle just goes up all the way to 30 initial. i've messed with the carb a lot and it's not carb related. new plugs and wires has the same issue. i know these low vacuum mild lift big duration cams like timing but damn 30 surprised me. i triple checked to make sure the balancer wasn't slipped lol
 
NoahSewal said:
that's what i was thinking. you think my hiccup with timing could cause that slow of a time?
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Timing "could" be it all, but I doubt it's all of it. For sure a major suspect in a contributing factor.
  • Is your throttle going all the way open when you floor it?? That has got many people, smart people too.
  • Timing, get it right. READ THE PLUGS !!!! Plugs will tell you the initial AND total, and if it's right.
  • Compression test. Some have "thought" the engine was up to snuff, only to find a cylinder or two around 80 psi (not good!)
  • Take your time, and pay attention to detail. Don't let 7 of your friends each have a half hour alone under your hood to solve it :D :D
 
318willrun said:
Timing "could" be it all, but I doubt it's all of it. For sure a major suspect in a contributing factor.
  • Is your throttle going all the way open when you floor it?? That has got many people, smart people too.
  • Timing, get it right. READ THE PLUGS !!!! Plugs will tell you the initial AND total, and if it's right.
  • Compression test. Some have "thought" the engine was up to snuff, only to find a cylinder or two around 80 psi (not good!)
  • Take your time, and pay attention to detail. Don't let 7 of your friends each have a half hour alone under your hood to solve it :D :D
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lolz love your advice. yes throttle is opening all the way although i did have that issue at one point. i have yet to get good at reading plugs but they don't look terrible. 150psi on all cylinders. and i don't dare let my buds work on it as they're all into hondas and imports. but i'm only 19 so it's hard to find younger people with old cars ha
 
NoahSewal said:
lolz love your advice. yes throttle is opening all the way although i did have that issue at one point. i have yet to get good at reading plugs but they don't look terrible. 150psi on all cylinders. and i don't dare let my buds work on it as they're all into hondas and imports. but i'm only 19 so it's hard to find younger people with old cars ha
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Spark plugs can read rich/lean. But the strap will also tell you where your initial and total timing is and if it needs more or less or one or the other.
Love to hear your 19 and working on a Big Block A-body. I wish you were closer, I'd love to help you ..
 
318willrun said:
Spark plugs can read rich/lean. But the strap will also tell you where your initial and total timing is and if it needs more or less or one or the other.
Love to hear your 19 and working on a Big Block A-body. I just love it! I wish you were closer, I'd love to help you ..
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for sure, next spring i'll get some run time and shoot you some pics of my plugs. i bought this car 3 years ago for 4000 bucks with the 318/904 and all. going to the track a few time's influenced me to do more to it. although looking back i would've just build a 360 for it because damn big blocks are tight in an A body.
 
NoahSewal said:
for sure, next spring i'll get some run time and shoot you some pics of my plugs. i bought this car 3 years ago for 4000 bucks with the 318/904 and all. going to the track a few time's influenced me to do more to it. although looking back i would've just build a 360 for it because damn big blocks are tight in an A body.
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You'll get it figured out, and then you won't be sorry that you have a 440 in that A-body.
 
318willrun said:
You'll get it figured out, and then you won't be sorry that you have a 440 in that A-body.
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found some pics of my plugs after i got home from the track!! and some pics of the car too lol. not the best pics of the plugs but i remembered i took them.

IMG_4663.png


IMG_4664.png


IMG_4665.png


IMG_4666.png
 
NoahSewal said:
i street drive it every now and then so i went with the 3000-3500 stall and it flashes to 3000. i could withstand more stall on the street though as i'm not too bothered by it. thanks for the advice on the timing. not sure why it likes so much initial though. anything below 25 and it idles like crap. and obviously the idle just goes up all the way to 30 initial. i've messed with the carb a lot and it's not carb related. new plugs and wires has the same issue. i know these low vacuum mild lift big duration cams like timing but damn 30 surprised me. i triple checked to make sure the balancer wasn't slipped lol
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With today's converter technology, you could put one in there that flashes to 5500 and will drive on the street like a stock converter. I know you don't need that high of a flash, it's just an example. Too many people choose a converter like we're still in the 1970s and that's a huge mistake with the converter technology we have available today. Used to be, the flash stall had an effect on cruise RPM. That's a thing of the past. Now you can ride around town with a 5500 stall and have it act like a stock converter at low RPM. As for the timing there are only two reasons for that much idle timing. Either there is a mistake reading it, whether you are reading it wrong, or there is something mechanical affoot like a slipped or mis marked balancer, OR it has low compression. Have you run a compression test to see what kind of cylinder pressure it has? Those figures, coupled with the known camshaft and you can make a really good guess where the static compression is.
 
NoahSewal said:
found some pics of my plugs after i got home from the track!! and some pics of the car too lol. not the best pics of the plugs but i remembered i took them.

View attachment 1716161224

View attachment 1716161225

View attachment 1716161226

View attachment 1716161227
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If that black on the porcelain is that far up, your wayyyy to rich. It should be gray, at the bottom and .080 thick.
All the black needs to go away. Dark gray is pretty good the yellow is mmt additive in my av gas

IMG_20231011_104834090_HDR.jpg
 
Here's a way to measure your torque curve to see where in the powerband your might not being do as well as it should.



Could also guesstimate peak tq eg. 1.2 per cid give the rpm points a tq # based ratio of peak tq guesstimate and figured out hp curve as well. Numbers don't matter much as the curves.
 
NoahSewal said:
lolz love your advice. yes throttle is opening all the way although i did have that issue at one point. i have yet to get good at reading plugs but they don't look terrible. 150psi on all cylinders. and i don't dare let my buds work on it as they're all into hondas and imports. but i'm only 19 so it's hard to find younger people with old cars ha
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Find a older Mopar dude
 
NoahSewal said:
i street drive it every now and then so i went with the 3000-3500 stall and it flashes to 3000. i could withstand more stall on the street though as i'm not too bothered by it. thanks for the advice on the timing. not sure why it likes so much initial though. anything below 25 and it idles like crap. and obviously the idle just goes up all the way to 30 initial. i've messed with the carb a lot and it's not carb related. new plugs and wires has the same issue. i know these low vacuum mild lift big duration cams like timing but damn 30 surprised me. i triple checked to make sure the balancer wasn't slipped lol
Click to expand...
What's the duration at .050 of that cam ?
 
NoahSewal said:
Finally got my car together this summer and i ran it at an 1/8 mile no prep near me. the car is a full interior 74 swinger with a mild 440 with stock cast bottom end besides speed pro L2355F pistons home ported open chamber cast heads with new seats and valves. carb is a 750vs holley. it's got an isky mega race .505 cam with 108 lobe sep. with valve springs and all. it's got a 3000 stall converter in front of a manual 727. also got 4:56 gears with spool and SS springs with 3 way adjustables and cal tracks on a 29.5x10.5 slick. my issue is it ran 9.1 at 78 with 2.01 60' launched at 2500rpm footbrake no wheel spin at all. shifted around 5500 into 2nd and 3rd as it was my first pass on it so i was going easy. are these numbers i should expect from this car? i was expecting atleast 8s lol. the only issue i had was this cam is really picky with timing wants like 30deg at idle and 36 all in and at the time i didn't have a limiter plate in the distributor so it was advancing more than it liked and was pinging at 4,000+rpm. could my timing issue cause that much of a difference in ET? i know it's a lot, just wondering what other people would think
Click to expand...
Did you degree in the cam correctly, that should be a tire frier on second thought you probably only have 9.3:1 compression and that cam is 244 @ .050.....you need way more stall, should be flashing atleast 3800 to make everything work properly
 
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Agree with rustyratrod. Definitely needs more converter, but also agree there could be other issues which guys have pointed to. I’d do the simple things first. I’d probably lock the distributor out instead of constantly fighting with weights and springs to get it where you want it. That eliminates any issue of when the timing is fully coming in. And if it still doesn’t respond to that, then you at least you know you have issues elsewhere. Just my thought.
 
71Demon528 said:
Agree with rustyratrod. Definitely needs more converter, but also agree there could be other issues which guys have pointed to. I’d do the simple things first. I’d probably lock the distributor out instead of constantly fighting with weights and springs to get it where you want it. That eliminates any issue of when the timing is fully coming in. And if it still doesn’t respond to that, then you at least you know you have issues elsewhere. Just my thought.
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yes i've since fixed the timing advance and it's much better. revs like it should very smooth through the whole rpm
 
I'll just say, without disrespect to anyone else ...... You do NOT need to start buying a bunch of new parts and throw them at it to go faster than 9.1 @ 78 mph. Let's forget what's under the hood for a minute and look at the rest of the car.
  • A-body with 4.56 gears, 3000 stall
That alone sets up basically a stock 318 4bbl to about run those numbers. This is why I would not start ordering new converters, or swapping anything. Yes, probably there are better pieces, but certainly not needed to go faster than 9.1. Just work with what you got and dissect it all. You'll be in the deep 7's. That's my take.
 
RustyRatRod said:
With today's converter technology, you could put one in there that flashes to 5500 and will drive on the street like a stock converter. I know you don't need that high of a flash, it's just an example. Too many people choose a converter like we're still in the 1970s and that's a huge mistake with the converter technology we have available today. Used to be, the flash stall had an effect on cruise RPM. That's a thing of the past. Now you can ride around town with a 5500 stall and have it act like a stock converter at low RPM. As for the timing there are only two reasons for that much idle timing. Either there is a mistake reading it, whether you are reading it wrong, or there is something mechanical affoot like a slipped or mis marked balancer, OR it has low compression. Have you run a compression test to see what kind of cylinder pressure it has? Those figures, coupled with the known camshaft and you can make a really good guess where the static compression is.
Click to expand...
150+ psi on all cylinders. i made the newbie mistake of not degreeing the cam when i put it together, this was my first engine build after all. but double checked dots are lined up. at some point i want to rebuild the engine with better heads, higher lift roller cam and maybe some stroke lol. at that point i'll start degreeing all my engines. but for now it is what it is
 
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