So….more header talk….this had me scratching my head

[Rat Bastid]

Yeah, hold on a minute. We have some junk to run before that ship sets sail and all the corn syrup in ginger ale catches up to ya….

Working on it. But it’s been a PITA. If it wasn’t for parts shortages, lack of support from the manufacturer and general lack of **** to buy it’s been testing my patience. And then most of what you buy is junk so there is that.

But, I’m slugging it out. I’m at least 6 months behind. Or more. It’s like pissing into a fan.

 

[Scody21]

Working on it. But it’s been a PITA. If it wasn’t for parts shortages, lack of support from the manufacturer and general lack of **** to buy it’s been testing my patience. And then most of what you buy is junk so there is that.

But, I’m slugging it out. I’m at least 6 months behind. Or more. It’s like pissing into a fan.

On a hot day like today, pissin in a fan might cool down ya down…. I get it, 16 weeks for custom pistons / rods from CP, last year it was 6.

 

[rumblefish360]

And then, you have to consider class rules name such. A 225 CC intake port would be considered small on a 287 inch Comp Eliminator engine, but would be HUGE on a .030 over 283.

Exactly! That was my jist. That 225cc head is considered huge in one area and just what the doctor ordered in another and not enough by someone else.

 

[rumblefish360]

This thread turned comedy…. You all are funny.

 

[MOPARMAGA]

Working on it. But it’s been a PITA. If it wasn’t for parts shortages, lack of support from the manufacturer and general lack of **** to buy it’s been testing my patience. And then most of what you buy is junk so there is that.

But, I’m slugging it out. I’m at least 6 months behind. Or more. It’s like pissing into a fan.

Soon as I get healthy, I'll be over

 

[Hysteric]

Of course, we are all guilty of confirmation bias.

More like Cognitive Dissonance.

 

[Rat Bastid]

More like Cognitive Dissonance.

View attachment 1715963256

LOL. What “new” information did that video have? Nothing I haven’t heard before. Once again, you can’t prove anything because you don’t DO anything. You just repeat what you hear.

 

[Hysteric]

LOL. What “new” information did that video have? Nothing I haven’t heard before. Once again, you can’t prove anything because you don’t DO anything. You just repeat what you hear.

Once again you prove my point for me. The fact that the OP is questioning his previously held beliefs' in the face of contradictory evidence is to be commended or did he post this in the hope that the "self proclaimed authorities" here will appease his discomfort and he can remain in his chosen intellectual box. Remaining part of the herd and being accepted by your so called perceived peers can be a very powerful restraining force.

I'll let you revert to personal attacks instead of actually discussing the topic at hand.

 

[Rat Bastid]

Once again you prove my point for me. The fact that the OP is questioning his previously held beliefs' in the face of contradictory evidence is to be commended or did he post this in the hope that the "self proclaimed authorities" here will appease his discomfort and he can remain in his chosen intellectual box. Remaining part of the herd and being accepted by your so called perceived peers can be a very powerful restraining force.

I'll let you revert to personal attacks instead of actually discussing the topic at hand.

I’ll discuss the topic. You can’t do it. The issue is making claims that all heads need to be small without defining what parameters we are discussing. You have the same issue.

 

[Hysteric]

I’ll discuss the topic. You can’t do it

Again back to personal attacks which isn't discussing the topic. The context was made abundantly clear in the first post as the OP made clear that he stated the conversation was had at the drag strip and he further elaborated that a lot of fast guys run his stuff:

Tons of guys nationally run his heads in stock and super stock.

And this:

He says… “ you have obviously been listening to dyno guys too much. You need to think about torque, more torque, faster down the track. You have a bigger runner head now, you have lost torque, thus the 3 loss in the 60 foot.
He said a lot of the stuff he is doing, he is telling his head customers to put 1.5 inch tubes on, not even 1 5/8. I was like..are you friggin kidding me..lol
Said he just finished a set of heads on a shoebox Nova that qualified 10th with a 327/ 275 horse motor that they installed couple days before Sonoma last weekend, and in spite of having wheelstand issues car went like 9.99..13 quicker than they had ever been…and still sorting it out.
Guy is without a doubt smart, just goes against everything I have ever though I knew about headers.

The real question is where did the OP get what he thought he knew from? Maybe an engine isn't an air pump after all.

 

[Rat Bastid]

Again back to personal attacks which isn't discussing the topic. The context was made abundantly clear in the first post as the OP made clear that he stated the conversation was had at the drag strip and he further elaborated that a lot of fast guys run his stuff:



And this:



The real question is where did the OP get what he thought he knew from? Maybe an engine isn't an air pump after all.

That’s not an attack. It’s a fact.


The OP was talked to at a drag strip but the video I couldn’t tell if he was talking about circle track or drag engines or both. Very confusing.

The guy the OP talked to isn’t the only engine builder building winning engines.

 

[B3422w5]

Again back to personal attacks which isn't discussing the topic. The context was made abundantly clear in the first post as the OP made clear that he stated the conversation was had at the drag strip and he further elaborated that a lot of fast guys run his stuff:



And this:



The real question is where did the OP get what he thought he knew from? Maybe an engine isn't an air pump after all.

i guess I hadnt seen( at least in recent years), any small block stroker running anything smaller than 1 7/8 headers.
Seen some even bigger than that.
I am not talking pooches like my current car, talking much faster stuff.
Even my old W5 deal ultimately went 140 mph at 3200 plus with 1 7/8 tube TTI headers.
Interestlng in that I swapped to a 3.5 collector from 3 inch and the ET slip completely ignored the swap.
Friend has a mid 8 second W8 Deal 66 barracuda. He has stepped 2 inch to 2 1/8 inch headers on his.
They made( and people still use) 2 inch W2 headers from quite a while back.
I think the point Hardy made to me that really stuck is torque.

 

[Rat Bastid]

i guess I hadnt seen( at least in recent years), any small block stroker running anything smaller than 1 7/8 headers.
Seen some even bigger than that.
I am not talking pooches like my current car, talking much faster stuff.
Even my old W5 deal ultimately went 140 mph at 3200 plus with 1 7/8 tube TTI headers.
Interestlng in that I swapped to a 3.5 collector from 3 inch and the ET slip completely ignored the swap.
Friend has a mid 8 second W8 Deal 66 barracuda. He has stepped 2 inch to 2 1/8 inch headers on his.
They made( and people still use) 2 inch W2 headers from quite a while back.
I think the point Hardy made to me that really struck is torque.

Yeah, he would have to expand on the torque thing more than that. Torque below converter stall speed is useless.

 

[Hysteric]

That’s not an attack. It’s a fact.

Its your opinion. And your opinion of me has nothing to do with the topic being discussed no matter how much you think or pretend it does.

The OP was talked to at a drag strip but the video I couldn’t tell if he was talking about circle track or drag engines or both. Very confusing.

It's seems pretty consistent with his design philophosy.

I think the point Hardy made to me that really struck is torque.

I can relate as I have had a so called under headed that made incredible torque and accelerated very quick. Went to a bigger head and lost it all down low. The topic draws a lot of emotional responses because people have intellectual positions to defend which are tied to their ego's hence the cognitive dissonance.

The guy the OP talked to isn’t the only engine builder building winning engines.

The fact that he's winning while doing it with "LESS" than the what the self proclaimed experts say is ideal speaks volume of what they may be missing and it would benefit anyone to try and understand how or what he's doing that is working for him and his customers. In a hobby obsessed with airflow and bigger ports it sure is refreshing seeing some swim against the tide and winning while doing it.

 

[Hysteric]

Yeah, he would have to expand on the torque thing more than that. Torque below converter stall speed is useless.

Maybe the the high stall is a crutch for a lack of torque. Could this be a function of design philophosy.

 

[B3422w5]

Interesting video Chris Hardy did about heads and porting heads( some of his examples regard circlectrack stuff)
But very interesting.
I didn’t know he was a protege of local racing legend Jerry Arnold, who owned a head porting shop and was a former many time drag racing champion

 

[Hysteric]

I didn’t know he was a protege of local racing legend Jerry Arnold, who owned a head porting shop and was a former many time drag racing champion

That was one of my questions as I have no idea who he is but obviously he has played a big part in his education on the topic.

 

[B3422w5]

That was one of my questions as I have no idea who he is but obviously he has played a big part in his education on the topic.

Jerry Arnold( he recently passed) 2016
Local racer with a really nice 73 Duster( about 3150 pounds) has run 9.50’s with a glide and Indy heads with a little over 12 to 1 compression and 412 cubes with heads Jerry did. Car wins a lot of money

Michigan Motor Sports Hall of Fame - Arnold, Jerry 1998 *

 

[Hysteric]

Jerry Arnold( he recently passed) 2016
Local racer with a really nice 73 Duster( about 3150 pounds) has run 9.50’s with a glide and Indy heads with a little over 12 to 1 compression and 412 cubes with heads Jerry did. Car wins a lot of money

Michigan Motor Sports Hall of Fame - Arnold, Jerry 1998 *

Thanks for that. Its always interesting to see where and what was formative in a persons life to help understand where they come from better.

 

[Rat Bastid]

Maybe the the high stall is a crutch for a lack of torque. Could this be a function of design philophosy.

Bad theory. So you are saying build low RPM torque so you can make more torque?

That’s not how you go fast.

 

[Hysteric]

Bad theory. So you are saying build low RPM torque so you can make more torque?

That’s not how you go fast.

Then maybe you need to talk to Chris Hardy because he seems to be able to do it. Maybe that's what Jerry Arnold figured out and passed on to Chris.

 

[MOPARMAGA]

Maybe the the high stall is a crutch for a lack of torque. Could this be a function of design philophosy.

I don't get what you're trying to say. Stall for a race car is supposed to be at or near peak torque, the higher the peak torque is carried through the rpm range the higher the horsepower will be.

 

[B3422w5]

I don't get what you're trying to say. Stall for a race car is supposed to be at or near peak torque, the higher the peak torque is carried through the rpm range the higher the horsepower will be.

I learned from Chris a dyno doesn’t measure horsepower, just torque and rpm, didn’t know that

 

[Hysteric]

I learned from Chris a dyno doesn’t measure horsepower, just torque and rpm, didn’t know that

If Chris can keep the pressure applied to the crank per each combustion event relatively high at lower rpms and then carry it further up the RPM range then he's onto something..

 

[Rat Bastid]

If Chris can keep the pressure applied to the crank per each combustion event relatively high at lower rpms and then carry it further up the RPM range then he's onto something..

LOL. Nope. You can’t have both. No one can. And again, what does torque matter once you are past converter stall speed or clutch launch RPM? That’s exactly what I’m asking.