So this new minumum wage thing?

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TrailBeast

TrailBeast

AKA Mopars4us on Youtube
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My son has been working at the same place for a couple of years and worked his way up to beginning management from what used to be minimum wage $7.25 an hour.
Now he makes about $10 and hour and has taken and passed all the requirements for management.
He has been in charge of the store and responsible for closing and end of day bank deposits for almost a year now.

Now he finds out that the new minimum wage is pretty much what he makes after working his way up, but the company has no apparent plans for dealing with this issue.
At this point he will be responsible for training new employees that will make the same pay he makes after two years of hard work to get where he is now.

Needless to say, he's pretty pissed off about it.

I saw this coming when they voted the new minimum wage in, and I mentioned it back then.
I also warned that Jobs were going to get scarce when the new wage passed because employers were going to get rid of people they figure are not worth $10 an hour and hesitate to hire any new people.

Also, AZ is a "right to work state" and as nice as the name sounds it isn't very nice.
It basically means you work but the employer doesn't have to follow a lot of labor laws that other states have.
For example, I have a Mopar friend that works for a well known local automotive repair business.
He makes $8.50 an hour for shifts that are 11 hours a day with no lunch time and no breaks.
He has to eat while he works if he gets to eat at all during the 11 hours.
When the new min wage goes into effect he has no idea what is going to happen, as he doesn't think the owner of the shop is going to give everyone a $1.50+ an hour pay hike.
More likely they will cut it back to less employees, and try to make them work harder and faster.


Anyone know more on this?
No politics or blame of one party or another, just a discussion please.
 
It really infringes on the guys who have been bruised and bloodied in battle to try and further their careers.... On the same the cost of anything today is astronomical IMO and I see the side of people needing pay increases to just stay afloat...

I myself have no good answer to it and as a prior business owner in Manufacturing I saw this coming down the pike and what we are talking about here is absolutely part of the reason I punch the clock for someone else.....

And lastly, it is not fair to those of us who have to stand back and get nothing while others do whether they are more productive, accurate, etc. in their jobs.... Pretty discouraging and every time this topic comes up in ends in a political debate so I would like to see the opinions of others on it....

JW
 
Anybody that asked for, or voted for these laws clearly doesn't understand inflation.
 
/\ I agree 100%
Entry level jobs will always be that, be it 50 cents 7 dollars or 100 dollars an hour.
This WILL raise the cost of everything and you're back at square1.
I hate the old guy rant, especially since I'm not very old, but to improve my situation I worked 2 jobs while attending school.
This is insulting to all who have worked hard.
 
You hit the nail on the head with the inflation comment. In 1920 a 1 ounce chunk of gold cost $20. It was called a $20 gold piece. Now its well over $1100 (and actually hit $1900 for a minute), not because gold went up, just the buying power of the dollar went down. This manufactured wage increase isn't about value for time spent, and can only lead in 1 direction.
 
We have had the minimum wage increase over the decade.
Has it helped anyone? Nope

With wage increase brings product increases. So nobody has gained anything just more dollar flow which brings more tax flow which lines politician pockets.
 
A long time ago, I was involved in a UAW strike. autoworkers wanted better pay, among other things. The union hype was "why shouldn't you be able to afford what you are making?" Well we got our pay raise, and other things, BUT still could not buy the cars we were making, Surprise the cars cost more! A lot of the increase was the contract we "won". And a number of years later, GM went BK! Had a lot to do with the contract we were on strike for years earlier.
 
Inflation is built into our system they just try to control it's rate. Canada tried a zero inflation system years ago and killed our economy lots of people lost there jobs and houses just for an economic experiment so the rich could stay richer.

One of the main controllers is underemployment and unemployment. But really if you work 40 plus hours a week shouldn't be able to make a living wage ?

And if not and the system is inherently rigged against the average why should we want to part take in that system designed for the few by the few ?
 
The last time minimum wage went up I had a friend working making over minimum, the wage went up to what she was making, no raise for her for the years she had worked there.
 
Also look at the early 20th century the rich had it there way. We slaved away in there shops and factories for low pay in unsafe conditions. The ruling class isn't just give people fair wages and working conditions out of the goodness of their own heart except for the odd ones.

We had to Unionize and force their hand and in the end didn't make America more prosperous for most not just the few. And now they are trying to convince us of the opposite is true all in the name of profits and disguised as fairness.
 
Years ago I was trained in the tool room surface grinding division! I became so good at it that when the Forman for that area retired I was promoted to head honcho! I was 22 and was making a whopping $7.50 an hour! They brought in a new guy to take my spot and asked me to train him! He was in his 40's, and we got to know each other pretty well, and he let it slip that he was only making $7.70 an hour, .20c more than I was! I was livid, so I went right into the front office and walked into the owners office and asked him what was the deal! He said "he has a family and needs to make that much, and you're young and single"!! So I quietly left and waited until Friday afternoon, because after lunch only about 20% of the employees came back! I got a skid hauler, loaded up my tools and quit! The tool room manager asked me what he was supposed to do with nobody to run the grinding area! I pointed to the front office and told him to ask the owner and walked out!! I was on the siding crew of a townhouse complex the very next day making $15 an hour, out in the sunlight, wondering why I ever waited so long to leave, and have never looked back!
 
If the minimum wage goes up X amount, All pay should go up X amount, across the board. Only way it is fair. It wont of course.
 
I agree with much of what has been said but am going out on a limb here so please take what I say with that spirit. The higher the minimum wage, the more employers are going to look at automation/robotics to fill those positions. Just look at the what has happened in the auto industry. Owning a manufacturing business in the past I was faced with this dilemma. We where non union however paid higher wages and had better benefits than like unionized companies in our market and still had to automate to stay competitive. So please don't paint all of us "Ruling Class" with the same brush.
When we automated some jobs we also trained personal from with in when possible to over see the new manufacturing process. There are many employers looking for this type of help now so it is imperative to reinvent yourself. Change is constant. As far as the original post about the 11 hour days and no breaks I would certainly look into the state labor laws. That situation sound unfair and extreme. Wish all you guy/ladies the best.
 
TrailBeast said:
My son has been working at the same place for a couple of years and worked his way up to beginning management from what used to be minimum wage $7.25 an hour.
Now he makes about $10 and hour and has taken and passed all the requirements for management.
He has been in charge of the store and responsible for closing and end of day bank deposits for almost a year now.

Now he finds out that the new minimum wage is pretty much what he makes after working his way up, but the company has no apparent plans for dealing with this issue.
At this point he will be responsible for training new employees that will make the same pay he makes after two years of hard work to get where he is now.

Needless to say, he's pretty pissed off about it.

I saw this coming when they voted the new minimum wage in, and I mentioned it back then.
I also warned that Jobs were going to get scarce when the new wage passed because employers were going to get rid of people they figure are not worth $10 an hour and hesitate to hire any new people.

Also, AZ is a "right to work state" and as nice as the name sounds it isn't very nice.
It basically means you work but the employer doesn't have to follow a lot of labor laws that other states have.
For example, I have a Mopar friend that works for a well known local automotive repair business.
He makes $8.50 an hour for shifts that are 11 hours a day with no lunch time and no breaks.
He has to eat while he works if he gets to eat at all during the 11 hours.
When the new min wage goes into effect he has no idea what is going to happen, as he doesn't think the owner of the shop is going to give everyone a $1.50+ an hour pay hike.
More likely they will cut it back to less employees, and try to make them work harder and faster.


Anyone know more on this?
No politics or blame of one party or another, just a discussion please.
Click to expand...
I believe the right to work state means that a union cannot force a person to join the union and pay dues to get a job. The employer, if a union shop or not, has to follow the labor laws of the state.
 
Right-to-work laws deal with not being forced to join a union as a condition of having a job. There's a lot of misconceptions as what Right to Work legislation means.

National labor laws regarding taking breaks for a certain amount of hours worked, still apply unless that person is considered a contract employee.

Minimum wage creates the issue that you have discussed. If the minimum mandated wage does not follow the standard market or company wage rate, it reduces the amount of jobs and slows hiring. It causes many businesses to close down which will force these businesses to areas or countries that do not have the same regulations. Most of the time as we have seen this greatly displaces the people who most need the jobs out of the workforce, such as the elderly, the very young untrained or inexperienced. It creates a problem to where it becomes more difficult to gain the training to become more economically mobile.

Our economy is currently a bastardized and fractured economy to where many levels of State local and Federal Regulation are impacting success of business and economic mobility.

When you try to look at the difficult to understand standard of living with the rising taxes, the increased debt and the constant inflation and changing of the value of the national currency, it's becoming an increasingly hard to navigate business and economic environment.

I understand the feeling of wanting a higher minimum wage, but the problem is the existing force (regulation) on the market which impairs people time to be adaquately valued... more regulation will not solve the problem people are experiencing.

The increased minimum wage will also lower the amount of raises that other positions throughout the entire Spectrum will receive.

It can be difficult to see all of the effects that increased minimum wage createsl, because most of the effects won't be as obvious or immediate. the worst effects will be unseen.

A market, or group of voluntarily exchanging individuals, will always suffer when force or violence is placed upon their voluntary peaceful interactions. It is the freedom of exchange in the marketplace that provides growth and innovation.
 
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72Valiant4Door said:
Right-to-work laws deal with not being forced to join a union as a condition of having a job. There's a lot of misconceptions as what Right to Work legislation means.

National labor laws regarding taking breaks for a certain amount of hours worked, still apply unless that person is considered a contract employee.

Minimum wage creates the issue that you have discussed. If the minimum mandated wage does not follow the standard market or company wage rate, it reduces the amount of jobs and slows hiring. It causes many businesses to close down which will force these businesses to areas or countries that do not have the same regulations. Most of the time as we have seen this greatly displaces the people who most need the jobs out of the workforce, such as the elderly, the very young untrained or inexperienced. It creates a problem to where it becomes more difficult to gain the training to become more economically mobile.

Our economy is currently a bastardized and fractured economy to where many levels of State local and Federal Regulation are impacting success of business and economic Mobility. When you try to look at the difficult to understand standard of living with the rising taxes, the increased debt and the constant inflation and changing of the value of the national currency, it's becoming an increasingly hard to navigate business and economic environment.

The increased minimum wage will also lower the amount of raises that other positions throughout the entire Spectrum will receive.

It can be difficult to see all of the effects that increased minimum wage has because most of the effects won't be as obvious or immediate the worst effects will be unseen. A market or group of voluntary Exchange in individuals will always suffer when Force or violence is placed upon their voluntary peaceful interactions. It is the freedom of Exchange in the marketplace that causes growth and innovation.
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Well said.
 
fl 71 said:
I believe the right to work state means that a union cannot force a person to join the union and pay dues to get a job. The employer, if a union shop or not, has to follow the labor laws of the state.
Click to expand...
You are correct: right to work state is a state that does not allow mandatory unionization by private businesses. The national Right to Work committee mostly deals with issues regarding the Taft-Hartley Act. Most people confuse "right to work" with "At Work" legislation.
 
I just don't believe that a job cooking french fries needs to be a high paid positon... if you want more money, be good at what you do and get promoted...
 
Raising minimum wage does not bring the so called intent of bringing the low up .
It only brings everyone that works hourly down .
On top of that it brings the cost of
Running a company up !
Who wins ?
I know but will not say !!!
 
Ben Drinkin said:
I just don't believe that a job cooking french fries needs to be a high paid positon... if you want more money, be good at what you do and get promoted...
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Entry level jobs in my day were jobs that taught you how to work and where not intended to be a career
 
Well maybe if business can't thrive and pay there employees living wages they shouldn't be in business in the first place.

I heard that the southern States really prospered in the 18-19th Centuries with unpaid workers.
 
273 said:
Well maybe if business can't thrive and pay there employees living wages they shouldn't be in business in the first place.

I heard that the southern States really prospered in the 18-19th Centuries with unpaid workers.
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Sorry...but a business is in business for reason...to generate a profit....No profit...no business...
 
70aarcuda said:
Sorry...but a business is in business for reason...to generate a profit....No profit...no business...
Click to expand...

We've can't base are whole existence on the needs of business profits. Business are here to feed our needs not the other way around.

There's got to be more to life then turning "our" natural resources into things we really don't need (in a lot of cases forever changing the faces of the world probably for the worse with a cost that's gonna be dropped at someone else's feet) for the power and enrichment of the few.

Business don't pay the full cost of doing business they off load a lot of it to tax payers. If we held all business for the cost of them being operational the would be none.
Why is it unfair when it comes at the cost of there profits but not when it comes out of our taxes ??
 
There needs to be low paying jobs to increase the spectrum of available work, amount of jobs, and access to mobility/ experience.

Children should be able to work for the same reasoning...

There also shouldnt be forced overtime pay for wage laborers working beyond a certain amount of hours... that also decreases maximum economic growth, which results in population growth and mobility.
 
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